It's a slow night, so I'll play along
Trying to save face is more like it.
Where did I say this?
I remember saying this:
So what don't you understand here.
#1 defencemen/#1 centermen/ power forwards / all-round players are not traded for or signed in the new NHL.
This is again something that you just don't understand.
It simply doesn't happen.
You cling to a few freak happenstances that have occurred at a diminishing rate since 2005 as some sort of justification for ignoring the use of lottery picks to secure the core talent this team has been starving for.
For every home-run trade that happens in one year, I can show you a dozen or so home-run draft picks made by teams that recognized the value in securing homegrown talent.
Again, the numbers just don't favor your argument. At all.
You can spin it whichever way you want.
The Chara signing did not push Boston into contendership...their 2006 entry drafts did.
The Sharp trade and Hossa signing did not push Chicago into contendership...the 2006 and 2007 entry drafts did.
Again, this is plainly obvious. But keep clinging to your pie-in-the-sky delusions.
You mean aside from the "exceptions" list I posted and a few more on top of that?
Yes, exceptions that have occurred over the past decade. That is precisely what they are.
Trades in the NHL are designed to be even for both teams. If I trade you a Coke for a Pepsi...I didn't build anything now did I. Now if I have a preference for Pepsi, than that makes the trade ideal for me.
Obviously other factors play into trades such as risk and return but on the whole if you are looking to "build" through trades, you are playing with fire. Classic case is the Leafs.
They've been "building" with Kessel (while losing picks that became Seguin and Hamilton). The net loss there. is significant.
They've been "building" with Lee Stempniak (while losing Alexander Steen). The net loss there is also significant.
And of course you also conveniently ignore how trace amounts of talent manage to make it to the UFA period. There have been very few players of note that don't get retained by their drafted teams and the ones that do are pricing themselves out of the market for the bulk of teams looking for a safe long-term investment.
But ignore that too. And cling to more exceptions that are things of the past.
Either way, I'm game for drafting, signing and trading for D-men, but I've already said that and you didn't get it then, so why would you get it now?
No, you clearly don't prefer to draft considering your hostile views towards proponents of a draft rebuild.
And as history has demonstrated for the Leafs, that is exactly what they should have been doing since the lockout to this very day. And sorry for stealing your little line here but you didn't get it then so why would you get it now?
See how easy that is?
I'd trade a pick for a #1 d-man, wouldn't you? You'd pass on a Chara or Pronger type d-man because they weren't drafted by us? You wouldn't trade a pick/prospect to get a Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo?
You would weigh the cost-benefit and account for the window of opportunity you are granting yourself with regards to your already in place core talent. The Leafs have a brutal core of talent compared to most teams in the NHL so adding a Chara or Pronger (a veteran version I assume you are speaking of) is not the same as adding a Weber or Pietrangelo.
But this is a discussion for naught because none of those players are available by my estimation and the one's I would be interested would cost more than just one pick...but rather a package of picks and players.
The cheaper solution obviously is to, surprise surprise, just draft one...but that should be obvious.
We'll go back in the past for some of those names, I'm sure I saw them recently. Personally I hope we stop signing guys like Clarkson and Komisarek to big money contracts and tossing away 2nds on guys like Bolland. Better asset management overall will be more of a factor than a change in methodology IMO.
I have no idea what that first sentence means, but that's great that you acknowledge the Leafs need to get out of the free agent and trade market for player procurement.
But isn't that you're entire thesis here? We should use all methods?
Now you are backtracking and changing the story.
It's about asset management now.
Well I agree, to an extent. And if you understood what good asset management is and what assets the Leafs do realistically possess and what they can muster within the trade, free agent, and draft market, you'll easily come to the conclusion that the Leafs are due for more than a few core pieces to come by way of the entry draft.
Due to the higher odds associated with getting those kinds of players in the lottery position, most rational people understand that finishing in the bottom 5 is simply a necessary evil with the hope of one day having a solid core to work with.
And when the core is materialized, then it's time to look to the trade and free agent market for secondary pieces to push the team from a playoff team to a contender. The reason being of course is mid-round first and second round picks can't be reasonably expected to materialize core talent. That's not to say don't use them, but don't count on them.
By waiting you mean, pursuing all methods actively and making moves that make best use of the assets?
No I mean just waiting for a core player to fall from the sky by way of trade or a free agent signing.
Again, it's such a rare occurrence that I don't know what else say.
You're clearly waiting for a miracle and in the meantime the team's long-term forecast is suffering, as we watch this Dion-Kessel led team wilt year in and out without the fallback of having a lottery pick. Rielly was a start, not a finish for this rebuild.
I really hope we're learning something here
Well no offence but you have 27,000 posts spanning back to 2005 and here I am almost having deja vu. I feel like I am talking to a Leafs fan circa 2005 about why we need to re-tool.
Agreed, you just can't win in this league signing players like Hossa, Chara, Thomas, Rafalski, Niedermay or trading for players like Pronger, Sharp, Horton, M. Richards, Carter, etc...
You can win with those types of talents provided they are surrounded with MORE core talent which by and large are found in the NHL entry draft.
Correction.
Looks like one of us has and the other has not
And again, I feel like I've just time travelled to 2005 arguing with a John Ferguson Jr. fan.
Again, I said it earlier, that's the beauty of being "someone like me". I have no problems drafting, trading or signing as long as it is done well and maximizes assets. Tough to argue against that point, which you're currently proving.
Clearly you do have qualms with drafting.
And you seem to pimp the free agent and trading market as some answer to our problems.
Of course what's plainly obvious to most rational Leafs fans is that it is that exact philosophy of shirking the draft in favor of band-aid solutions (trades, free agent signings) that got us into the very mess we are seeing today.
Wow, that exchange was a thing of beauty.
