Speculation: Which RFA is most likely to be traded?

[Oscar Lindberg]

A boat load of offensive potential?

Yeah I don't understand how people can't see this with Hayes. He's not a scrub. It's not a coincidence that every team in the league wanted to sign him two summers ago, and that any team now would love to have him.

 

[silverfish]

For the record, I really like both of them. Hayes's rookie season was enough for me to not want to send him packing after his horrendous sophomore year. His vision is not something many players have. I could provide a long list of things I love about Miller, but you'd refute them all and tell me how he actually sucks.

Don't see why the "more power to ya" stuff is needed by the way. All I did was point out that Miller is younger than Hayes.

Because it's 5:15 and I'm cranky and want to go home

The bolded above is what I take issue with.

Can you objectively say, backed up with factual evidence, that Hayes's [grammar help question: when would you use Hayes's versus Hayes'? I suppose if I was talking about Kevin and Jimmy at the same time, it'd be Hayes'?] "horrendous" season was that much worse than Miller's 15-16 campaign?

I don't think anyone can.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Umm let me use my stats knowledge here.. We need to set a signicance level in order to prove the null hypothesis that Miller = Hayes or reject that null and prove the alternative hypothesis that Hayes > Miller

 

[aufheben]

I still don't know what people see in Kevin Hayes

I voted Kreider because he'll be the most expensive

I think the list of reasons not to like him would be shorter.

 

[Edge]

Most likely? Kreider.

If it was up to me they all stay.

That's my answer as well.

 

[Edge]

A boat load of offensive potential?

I get a kick out of how he went from drawing comparisons to Joe Thornton and being pegged as a second line center worthy of moving Stepan or Brassard, to complete garbage.

And like usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But where's the fun in that?

 

[silverfish]

You know, the more I look into the #s, it's actually pretty remarkable how similar Hayes and Miller were last season. They had near identical possession numbers. Near identical points per 60. Near identical individual shot attempts. The only thing is that Hayes's shooting percentage went down 5% from 14-15 to 15-16, and Miller's went up 6% from 14-15 to 15-16.

Take that into account, and factor in that one of these guys is a 6'6" center, and the other is a 6'1" winger, and I think you have your answer on who is probably a more valuable piece.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I'd move Kreider first out of the 3 because so far in his NHL career it seems the only part of his game that is an actual strength is skating in a straight line, every other part of his game is very hit or miss on a night to night basis. And I know with young players consistency is the thing they always need to work out, but for all the flack Hayes is getting for not being in shape for the season, it seemed to me that Kreider just coasted through the season until down the stretch. I'm not saying I dislike Kreider or that I think that he's a bad hockey player, I just think that he's a player that probably needs to get traded or something to make him try harder and probably put it all together, and unfortunately for us, we can't trade him to ourselves. Not to mention he'd probably be able to get the best return of the three, but if he stays I really hope he can work the rest of his game out because he drives me crazy when he decides he doesn't feel like trying all that hard for months at a time.

 

[Off Sides]

slightly unfair when hayes was being asked to play out of position. he is terrible on the wing no matter who he plays with...

it would have been different if he was playing center on the 2nd line and couldn't hack it.

My point was not that Hayes is a bad player, or that his season was so very very bad, more so that if he was a better option at wing he would have played with the players Miller ended up playing with.

I personally think Hayes has the tools to be a 2nd line center, yet he is not currently better than Stepan or Brassard and I am not sure he ever will be.

I also believe Miller has the tools to be a 2nd line wing.

And I see Kreider as a 2nd liner too.

I just happen to think if any of them had to play the top line for a whole season, Miller would probably produce the most points because I think his shot, passing and vision are just better than that of the other two.

 

[bernmeister]

Pretty simple question. Came up in the Kreider thread.

Curious to hear the board's thoughts on who is most likely to move.

The correct answer is none of the above.
If you force me to choose from only one of these three, it is Hayes.
But the force is not necessary, or productive.

We extend CK 8 years and it averages out to 4,4+ ish, which is entirely reasonable for what he already brings plus his upside.

And again, he is THE ONLY guy on the team who can dominate.
W/o him we = Canadiens.

Miller + to lesser extent Hayes, we need to keep and they are cheap for now.

----------

The correct poll should be:
who will be proven correct
bernmeister - who says first move higher priced vets Stepan, Brass, Zuc
or those who disagree - who say move the kids - Kreider, Miller, Hayes

I'm confident the older vets go first

 

[we want cup]

I don't think any of them will go, but as the most expensive of the lot, Kreider seems most likely. They might see depth at center as too important to move Hayes.

 

[silverfish]

Somebody explain to me why when we are praising Player 1 for having such a breakout year, we are also completely ****ting on Player 2 for the worst sophomore slump known to mankind.

Please. Because I feel like I'm going crazy here.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't think any of them will go, but as the most expensive of the lot, Kreider seems most likely. They might see depth at center as too important to move Hayes.

Again, its bad enough we had to move Hagelin
Kreider is the ONLY dominate one
he goes nowhere.

Buh bye, Stepan

 

[pld459666]

Didnt AV emphatically say that he thought hayes was a vital part of this teams future?

At the time he said and I'm certain he meant it...then

If the work ethic is still in question then he will get gone.

 

[Edge]

The funny thing is that some of these concerns aren't totally out of left field concerning Hayes.

In college, until his explosive senior year, there were a lot of observers who felt that Hayes wasn't always committed to giving his all.

It's possible that some of this is in the wiring for him. That's a little harder to change.

 

[SA16]

Somebody explain to me why when we are praising Player 1 for having such a breakout year, we are also completely ****ting on Player 2 for the worst sophomore slump known to mankind.

Please. Because I feel like I'm going crazy here.

I think Hayes is a lot better than Miller.

 

[silverfish]

I think Hayes is a lot better than Miller.

And yet, this opinion, which seems so obvious to me, is such a minority viewpoint on HFNYR. I'm trying to figure out why.

 

[Riche16]

Somebody explain to me why when we are praising Player 1 for having such a breakout year, we are also completely ****ting on Player 2 for the worst sophomore slump known to mankind.

Please. Because I feel like I'm going crazy here.

One was scratched for the last two games of the season and the other wasn't? Meaning the coach wasn't seeing what he wanted (I know i know... the same coach who played Glass and Girardi all year and stapled McIlrath to the bench... etc. etc.)

I honestly get everything you've been saying in this thread and by no means do I disagree, but... and this isn't something you've never heard before lol...

STATS DON'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

As I stated earlier, i don't think (nor do i want) any of them gone... so I'm not arguing that fact... I just don't think Hayes had a very good year, no matter what his CORGIS were (arf arf) or his CF30/60/90 was.

I honestly think it would colossally stupid to trade Hayes right now.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't see it either Silverfish other than Hayes wasn't as good and Miller had a breakout.

 

[Lundy HOF]

And yet, this opinion, which seems so obvious to me, is such a minority viewpoint on HFNYR. I'm trying to figure out why.

It's probably because via the eye test Hayes can come off as lazy. He doesn't compete as well on the boards and his play in the Dzone can be accurately described by the way he speaks

Having said that - he has much higher upside and plays C. I would think Miller would be the "easiest to replace" of the 3. Would love to package Millsy for Trouba if possible.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I think Hayes is a lot better than Miller.

I disagree. Miller is a better skater, way more physical despite being smaller and has a better shot.

 

[silverfish]

One was scratched for the last two games of the season and the other wasn't? Meaning the coach wasn't seeing what he wanted (I know i know... the same coach who played Glass and Girardi all year and stapled McIlrath to the bench... etc. etc.)

I honestly get everything you've been saying in this thread and by no means do I disagree, but... and this isn't something you've never heard before lol...

STATS DON'T TELL THE WHOLE STORY.

As I stated earlier, i don't think (nor do i want) any of them gone... so I'm not arguing that fact... I just don't think Hayes had a very good year, no matter what his CORGIS were (arf arf) or his CF30/60/90 was.

I honestly think it would colossally stupid to trade Hayes right now.

Completely subjective evidence.

I'd like objective evidence, if possible, that this was an epic breakout season for Miller, and a colossal failure from Hayes.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't see it either Silverfish other than Hayes wasn't as good and Miller had a breakout.

That's probably what's driving the narrative, at least I know that's what it is for me. Hayes pissed me off a lot this year, and I'll admit I'm biased.

Miller also had that aura around him of being a clutch player on the road, especially during that stretch where we really sucked.

I hope Hayes comes into camp this season in better shape and driven, and I'll be glad to eat crow regarding him.

 

[Riche16]

Completely subjective evidence.

I'd like objective evidence, if possible, that this was an epic breakout season for Miller, and a colossal failure from Hayes.

Not once did I say either of those.

Where do you get this **** from? I was agreeing with you. Just was stating that Hayes was scratched so obviously the coach wasn't liking what he saw.

 

[Mikos87]

And yet, this opinion, which seems so obvious to me, is such a minority viewpoint on HFNYR. I'm trying to figure out why.

It's because Hayes had a questionable effort level. Not backchecking, losing his man consistently. Not playing physical.

While Miller went all out... while he would make that occasional boneheaded mistake... the effort wasn't an issue.

I don't know if there's an advanced stat for losing your man because you're floating back after a soft turnover... but I'd bet Hayes would be leading Miller in that category.