Which city has potential to have 2 or more NHL teams

[DowntownBooster]

Nope. Winnipeg didn't even sell out every playoff game last season.

Source: Winnipeg WCF games aren't selling out

Maybe take the time to read through the entire thread from the link instead of trying to imply there's an attendance issue in Winnipeg. The original comment by the poster was meant to be funny. He knows we don't have the population to support 2 NHL teams. Yeesh.

 

[innitfam]

Why not Vancouver? 2.5 million in Metro Vancouver, no other winter sport competition other than the WHL Giants. Build an arena in, I dunno, Surrey, so you try to attract from a different geographic area.

Whether someone has enough $$$ to indemnify the Aquelini's is a valid question, but I think it could work.

No interest in expansion fees + new arena for a team that will struggle to maintain a fanbase considering the fairweather fanbase in the GVRD area

 

[WingsFan95]

Toronto is not a question of economic viability but the legality involved. Welcome to regional exclusivity. TSN did a 5 city analysis like a decade ago and Quebec/Hamilton/Toronto was what I remember. Toronto was given an A- opportunity.

Markham Arena was very realistic until it didn't happen. But that area and pro hockey is starved. Junior hockey is packed. Just need to make it convenient. Markham makes it real easy for Oshawa-Peterborough-Ajax-Whitby as well with York Region being closer.

Leafs Nation isn't as strong as MLSE wants you to believe. They've simply priced out like 80% of fans so a 2nd team would be more lovable than initially expected.

I also think London would absolutely work. Money is there and you got Kitchener/Waterloo/Guelph.

 

[Hooby Dooby Doo]

Sunrise

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Phoenix? A new team downtown and the Coyotes in Glendale?

I kid.

I've thought about this, actually, just for giggles. It would probably turn into one of the more vicious rivalries in the NHL...

Only place adding a second team a la the Los Angeles Lakers/Clippers might work for the NHL would be Toronto. Nowhere else.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Chicago could easily have two NHL teams

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Toronto and it's not even a question. But I'd put that second team in Hamilton because it'd make a ton more sense. But in the Toronto area it should be Mississauga that gets the team if not Hamilton.

After WHL comes to Winnipeg I hope ECHL never comes here.

 

[JJ68]

GTA also has about 3 times the population.

3x more than 4.5 million? tbh I think Montreal has an even larger population than that. Judging by the amount of damn traffic!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JJ68]

oh just came in to say I dont think having another team in a city is a good idea for any city, or franchise....even if it could be feasible.

 

[Fremitus Borealis]

Minneapolis and St Paul. Xcel Energy Center and Target Center. I think there are enough fans who'd bail on the Wild and enough who would stay on. But these long standing teams where they're institutions, people aren't going to bail on most of them. Would make for a fun little rivalry.

An AHL team would absolutely work (especially if they were affiliated with the Wild), but I can't imagine another NHL team working (sadly). We love hockey here, but there are only so many people who can plunk down the cash for season tickets, which is really what it's about.

Anyway, put me in the camp that's astounded that Southern Ontario doesn't have another NHL team (or two) yet.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Chicago could easily have two NHL teams

You could make an argument that they already do, except one is playing in Glendale, Arizona right now.

 

[FartMilk]

Always found it funny that the NYC area has three hockey teams, when it's the fourth most popular league in the area, but the other big three only have two teams. Makes no f***ing sense. Talk about oversaturation.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Chicago could easily have two NHL teams

I definitely wouldn't say "easily" about us in that regard. Hopeful "maybe" at best and at a stretch.

And that ain't a knock. Most cities would be flat out hell no's rather than something you'd think about for a few seconds before saying nah.

 

[alko]

There was some study made in 2011 (source) that shows, there are many cities capable to have 2 teams. But its only for Canada.

We conclude that Canada can likely support 12 NHL teams, or double the current number of Canadian franchises.

• The best location for a new team is Ontario’s Greater Golden Horseshoe, a market of 9 million people that can support 3 NHL teams.
• The best location within the Horseshoe is the Greater Toronto Area, which can support a second NHL team.
• A new team would also be successful in one of the following cities to the west of Toronto: Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo or London.
• Vancouver and Montreal each have enough demand to support a second NHL team.
• Despite their small populations, teams would be viable in Winnipeg and Quebec City.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

There was some study made in 2011 (source) that shows, there are many cities capable to have 2 teams. But its only for Canada.

We conclude that Canada can likely support 12 NHL teams, or double the current number of Canadian franchises.

• The best location for a new team is Ontario’s Greater Golden Horseshoe, a market of 9 million people that can support 3 NHL teams.
• The best location within the Horseshoe is the Greater Toronto Area, which can support a second NHL team.
• A new team would also be successful in one of the following cities to the west of Toronto: Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo or London.
• Vancouver and Montreal each have enough demand to support a second NHL team.
• Despite their small populations, teams would be viable in Winnipeg and Quebec City.

no, we haven't concluded any such thing. Canada has more than enough teams and the last thing the NHL needs is Canadian markets with multiple teams.

 

[patnyrnyg]

There was some study made in 2011 (source) that shows, there are many cities capable to have 2 teams. But its only for Canada.

We conclude that Canada can likely support 12 NHL teams, or double the current number of Canadian franchises.

• The best location for a new team is Ontario’s Greater Golden Horseshoe, a market of 9 million people that can support 3 NHL teams.
• The best location within the Horseshoe is the Greater Toronto Area, which can support a second NHL team.
• A new team would also be successful in one of the following cities to the west of Toronto: Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo or London.
• Vancouver and Montreal each have enough demand to support a second NHL team.
• Despite their small populations, teams would be viable in Winnipeg and Quebec City.

having the population and fans of the game will not necessarily translate into being a "successful" franchise. If it was just about population and number of hockey fans, Quebec City would still have the Nordiques, the Jets would have never left, and Ottawa wouldn't be in the situation it is currently in. The NY Metro area has 3 teams and a population of about 20 million people. While I know there are a lot more hockey fans in those Canadian regions you mentioned, there are enough fans here for 3 teams as well.

However, that doesn't mean they are all interested in going to games. In the Golden Horseshoe, are current Leafs fans going to flock to support the new team? Isles won the Cup 4 years in a row and the Devils won it 3 times over 9 years, yet LI and NJ are still filled with Rangers fans. Secondly, they may steal lots of Leafs fans (the Leafs have enough to spare a few), are they also going to spend $? Are they going to buy enough season tickets or are they just going to be a place for Leafs fans to attend games because Leafs tickets are too expensive/too far away? Same for the Montreal and Vancouver.

 

[DowntownBooster]

no, we haven't concluded any such thing. Canada has more than enough teams and the last thing the NHL needs is Canadian markets with multiple teams.

Hey, you changed your avatar AF! It threw me for a loop since I was so used to the other one. Anyway, I agree with your post.

 

[oknazevad]

Everybody does realize the "we" was a quote from the study, right? No one was speaking for anyone else.

Mind you, quotation marks exist for a reason.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Always found it funny that the NYC area has three hockey teams, when it's the fourth most popular league in the area, but the other big three only have two teams. Makes no ****ing sense. Talk about oversaturation.

Oversaturation is always subject to interpretation. Generally, you've never had more than 2 of the 3 franchises be good at the same time and so there's some shifting of fans between teams. Plus, the Nets have almost always played second fiddle to the Knicks no matter how crappy the Knicks are and the Mets have always played second fiddle to the Yankees and the Mets fan base only really turns out if the team is really good.

I might even make the argument that NYC would do fine with just one NFL team [not going into the fact that NYC really has 0 teams and it's been that way since 1984].

 

[GuelphStormer]

Everybody does realize the "we" was a quote from the study, right? No one was speaking for anyone else.

agreed, clearly the Mowat/Munk study was being referenced ...

 

[MNNumbers]

The study about Canadian cities is from 6+ years ago. I think that NHL finances have changed since then. There is much more reliance on corporate dollars now than there was then. Ticket prices are higher. The real support of the franchise is no longer the guy on Maple St who buys 4 season tickets. It's now the companies buying them.

I have a feeling that this phenomenon is what is creating difficulties in Ottawa, and may be hampering Quebec (one reason, anyway) as well.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Oversaturation is always subject to interpretation. Generally, you've never had more than 2 of the 3 franchises be good at the same time and so there's some shifting of fans between teams. Plus, the Nets have almost always played second fiddle to the Knicks no matter how crappy the Knicks are and the Mets have always played second fiddle to the Yankees and the Mets fan base only really turns out if the team is really good.

I might even make the argument that NYC would do fine with just one NFL team [not going into the fact that NYC really has 0 teams and it's been that way since 1984].

Uhm, there is so much inacuracy in this post. There is no shifting of fans between the hockey teams. The only thing any have in common is Isles and Devils fans hate the Rangers. If the Isles were playing the Rangers, the Devils fans are rooting for the Isles. Nets, "almost always"? Should be "always" They are the worst supported team of the 4 sports in the area and when it comes to basketball, NY is a VERY fair-weather town. When the Knicks are good, they are by far the hottest ticket in town. When they are bad? You will see more out of town stuff being worn. Nowadays, I see more Lebron and Curry jerseys than I do Knicks jerseys. I see more people wearing Cavs (still, haven't seen much Lakers stuff yet, and Warriors stuff than Knicks stuff). Mets have not always played 2nd fiddle to the Yankees. The Mets were more popular and had more fans until the mid-90s. This was considered a National League town for years as when the Mets first started, most of the old Giants and Dodgers fans became Mets fans. Both NFL teams are supported. The Jets ticket situation has been a disaster due to the prices, but there are still more than enough fans for both teams.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Always found it funny that the NYC area has three hockey teams, when it's the fourth most popular league in the area, but the other big three only have two teams. Makes no ****ing sense. Talk about oversaturation.

While it is the same market, the Isles and Devils main territory is VERY separate despite what google maps says about their distance. People from Jersey are not going to make the trip to Nassau County on a regular basis for a weeknight game. Same from the people of LI in regards to going to NJ for a weeknight game. Same tv market, but they are not really drawing fans from the same pool of people.

If the Devils were to move, it is not going to help the Isles grow their fanbase. If the Isles move, it is not going to help the Devils grow their fanbase. All you would have is either more Rangers fans in North/Central Jersey or more Rangers fans on Long Island, over time. No, I would never expect current Devils or Isles fans to switch to the Rangers. Yes, there would probably be many Devils fans that become Isles fans if the Devils were to move, and vice-versa. But, not nearly enough to have an impact on attendance or revenues simply because of the commute.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Uhm, there is so much inacuracy in this post. There is no shifting of fans between the hockey teams. The only thing any have in common is Isles and Devils fans hate the Rangers. If the Isles were playing the Rangers, the Devils fans are rooting for the Isles. Nets, "almost always"? Should be "always" They are the worst supported team of the 4 sports in the area and when it comes to basketball, NY is a VERY fair-weather town. When the Knicks are good, they are by far the hottest ticket in town. When they are bad? You will see more out of town stuff being worn. Nowadays, I see more Lebron and Curry jerseys than I do Knicks jerseys. I see more people wearing Cavs (still, haven't seen much Lakers stuff yet, and Warriors stuff than Knicks stuff). Mets have not always played 2nd fiddle to the Yankees. The Mets were more popular and had more fans until the mid-90s. This was considered a National League town for years as when the Mets first started, most of the old Giants and Dodgers fans became Mets fans. Both NFL teams are supported. The Jets ticket situation has been a disaster due to the prices, but there are still more than enough fans for both teams.

Son, New York supports Jets, Giants, Mets, Rangers and Knicks regardless of how bad they are....and we are fair weather?

While it is the same market, the Isles and Devils main territory is VERY separate despite what google maps says about their distance. People from Jersey are not going to make the trip to Nassau County on a regular basis for a weeknight game. Same from the people of LI in regards to going to NJ for a weeknight game. Same tv market, but they are not really drawing fans from the same pool of people.

If the Devils were to move, it is not going to help the Isles grow their fanbase. If the Isles move, it is not going to help the Devils grow their fanbase. All you would have is either more Rangers fans in North/Central Jersey or more Rangers fans on Long Island, over time. No, I would never expect current Devils or Isles fans to switch to the Rangers. Yes, there would probably be many Devils fans that become Isles fans if the Devils were to move, and vice-versa. But, not nearly enough to have an impact on attendance or revenues simply because of the commute.

It may not contribute to season ticket sold but at the very least more eyeballs will be on Islanders or Devils if one them leave, on TV. I doubt Devils or Islanders fans would then follow Rangers. Not to mention merchandise sale.

Plus for those in New Jersey, Islanders at Barclays and soon Belmont, is probably not an impossible journey to make with train services.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Son, New York supports Jets, Giants, Mets, Rangers and Knicks regardless of how bad they are....and we are fair weather?

It may not contribute to season ticket sold but at the very least more eyeballs will be on Islanders or Devils if one them leave, on TV. I doubt Devils or Islanders fans would then follow Rangers. Not to mention merchandise sale.

Plus for those in New Jersey, Islanders at Barclays and soon Belmont, is probably not an impossible journey to make with train services.

First off, not sure who you are calling son. Secondly, read what I wrote. I said, when it comes to BASKETBALL, NY is fair-weather. I am almost 43 years old, have lived in the NYC Metro area my whole life and have seen it first hand. Thirdly, one of the Devils or Isles leaving would do NOTHING to help the other team. Again, if you read what I wrote, I said I would not expect current Devils/Isles fans to become Rangers fans. OVER TIME, their would be more Rangers fans in North/Central Jersey if it were the Devils to move. As in, as new fans start to follow the league, you would see an increase in the amount of Rangers fans in the area in question.