HF Habs: Whats YOUR plan ?

[Cobra Commander]

Price had something more than a bad year... Something was just not right in his head. Hope he figures it out because we need him.

Imagine what is in his head now after MB's presser, it made me mad at how Bergevin was putting him down and calling him out, blaming him.. I can imagine how Price feels.

 

[habsgirl5000]

Maybe Price is finished, personally I don't buy it. A bad year is simply that, a bad year.

I don't buy that was simply a bad year.....I believe this is only the beginning of his decline,

IMO we would be lucky this season if he is at least equal to last seasons play....if not, it will be worse, not better

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Yes I'm serious, we have a better chance of signing Tavares then we do of drafting the next McDavid/Crosby.

Maybe Price is finished, personally I don't buy it. A bad year is simply that, a bad year.

Odds of signing Tavares are non existent. Over a span of multiple years the odds of drafting a franchise player are incremental.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Odds of signing Tavares are non existent. Over a span of multiple years the odds of drafting a franchise player are incremental.

Lottery percentages alone for teams in the top 10 are higher than any one, bad team's, chance at getting JT.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

So you think we should tank because Winnipeg, a team who didn't tank got Laine?

Winnipeg is the perfect example of how to build a team without tanking.

You have no idea what youre talking about. Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Laine ? Thats a tank job done right.

 

[Sorinth]

Without Laine, they wouldn't be playing right now.

And Laine on an ELC >>>> Tavares making 14 million/year.

Did they tank to get Laine?

EDIT: And as for your point that you get nothing if you don't sign a UFA but likely get a good player even if you don't get lottery luck sure, but if we strike out on Tavares/Carlson won't we suck again and get a good pick anyways?

 

[Sorinth]

Odds of signing Tavares are non existent. Over a span of multiple years the odds of drafting a franchise player are incremental.

But there are new UFAs every year as well. You don't get a Tavares level player very often, but you also don't get a franchise player very often either.

 

[WeThreeKings]

But there are new UFAs every year as well. You don't get a Tavares level player very often, but you also don't get a franchise player very often either.

Go far down the list of league leaders in points until you find me the first player on that list acquired via free agency. Then compare it to those who were acquired via draft or trade, usually involving drafted assets or future draft picks.

Hint: It's 20 at Artemi Panarin, but he was a signed undrafted player.. let's dip deeper and find the first true NHL player who left their team via free agency and signed by another.. Ah there he is, #26 Eric Staal.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

But there are new UFAs every year as well. You don't get a Tavares level player very often, but you also don't get a franchise player very often either.

Thats a symptom of being a mediocre team because thats all you can resort to. Leafs fans did it for years hoping they would sign Sedins/Getzlaf/Perry/Stamkos/etc until they built a team the right way and today theyre hyped about actual Leafs players instead of imaginary lineups.

 

[Sorinth]

You have no idea what youre talking about. Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Laine ? Thats a tank job done right.

2011 (As Atlanta): They traded picks in the offseason to get Ladd (2nd & prospect) & Byfuglien (1st & 2nd + prospects) and at the trade deadline added Wheeler.
2013: They signed Jokinen
2014: Traded 2nd, 3rd & 5th round picks to get Frolik & Setoguchi
2015: Signed Perreault, traded for Myers and then at the deadline for Stempniak

They consistently dealt picks/prospects for players and signed veteran top-6 players so how exactly is that considered tanking?

 

[Sorinth]

Go far down the list of league leaders in points until you find me the first player on that list acquired via free agency. Then compare it to those who were acquired via draft or trade, usually involving drafted assets or future draft picks.

Hint: It's 20 at Artemi Panarin, but he was a signed undrafted player.. let's dip deeper and find the first true NHL player who left their team via free agency and signed by another.. Ah there he is, #26 Eric Staal.

I think you are missing the point, what are the odds of signing Tavares or an equivalent level UFA over the next 3 years? What are the odds of drafting a franchise player over the next 3 years?

 

[Kent Nilsson]

2011 (As Atlanta): They traded picks in the offseason to get Ladd (2nd & prospect) & Byfuglien (1st & 2nd + prospects) and at the trade deadline added Wheeler.
2013: They signed Jokinen
2014: Traded 2nd, 3rd & 5th round picks to get Frolik & Setoguchi
2015: Signed Perreault, traded for Myers and then at the deadline for Stempniak

They consistently dealt picks/prospects for players and signed veteran top-6 players so how exactly is that considered tanking?

Youre aware that Atlanta was an entirely different management team right ? All of jets true gems are high draft picks. Honestly you could barely come up with a worse example. Why are you trying to argue if you dont even understand what tanking is ?

 

[Sorinth]

Youre aware that Atlanta was an entirely different management team right ? All of jets true gems are high draft picks. Honestly you could barely come up with a worse example. Why are you trying to argue if you dont even understand what tanking is ?

Yet that was the year they got Scheifele, so if they tanked or not matters because they got that pick despite not tanking.

Trading picks for veteran players, signing 40-50 point UFA forwards is the opposite of tanking. The fact they got high picks is irrelevant, they got those picks because they were a bad team, but rather then attempt to finish even lower in the standings, they tried to become a better team by adding decent-good players.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Yet that was the year they got Scheifele, so if they tanked or not matters because they got that pick despite not tanking.

Trading picks for veteran players, signing 40-50 point UFA forwards is the opposite of tanking. The fact they got high picks is irrelevant, they got those picks because they were a bad team, but rather then attempt to finish even lower in the standings, they tried to become a better team by adding decent-good players.

I agree to an extent that the Jets for the most part were not tanking. What hurt them all those years was riding Pavelec as their starter. They never really tried getting a goalie either like the Flyers or Flames have been doing so it's a bit odd.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think you are missing the point, what are the odds of signing Tavares or an equivalent level UFA over the next 3 years? What are the odds of drafting a franchise player over the next 3 years?

Well, let's see. Considering you have to go to #25 on the best producers list in the NHL this past season to find a UFA signed player, while the rest were drafted or traded for through draft picks or drafted players.. I'd say the percentage to draft a franchise player is significantly higher than signing one from UFA.

Source: Every NHL season ever.

 

[habsfan909]

No one is taking Price off our hands though. I don't disagree with your premise.

But no team is going to want Price at 10.5 x 8. The GM would have to retain probably 30% or more of the salary and throw in picks.

We are stuck with Price so either he turns it around or this team is sinking for the next 8 years. Even if we luck out and McNiven or Lindgren become the next Roy that 10.5 is going to anchor the team down.

Worst move by MB by far and probably worse contract in the NHL.

Don't really agree with you. While the return on Price would not be great, we could definitely move him if we were trying to dump him for pennies. Unfortunately, it's common practice for Habs land to refuse to trade players when they're at their best and to expect to get full value for them when they're at their worst. That's why our asset management has been so poor for so long.
Max had an off year... really off actually. And now Bergevin will act like he just netted 40 goals but he's not worth that right now. Really his true value is the cheap contract. Imagine we re-sign Max to 7 million a season or something? We will be so screwed lmao.

 

[habsfan909]

To everyone in here who has “sign TJ” as part of their plan...

Seriously - get real.

Everyone's plan was Dahlin and JT. Now it's JT.
Real plan: Tomas Plekanec. Responsible center. Followed by: We need our young guys to step up so McCaron and DLR will be our other centers. This is what Bergy will try to sell us.

Then he will rip the youth in the media as well as Price while he praises himself for not signing an 'aging markov' or paying an extra few bucks to radulov.

 

[habsfan909]

Well, let's see. Considering you have to go to #25 on the best producers list in the NHL this past season to find a UFA signed player, while the rest were drafted or traded for through draft picks or drafted players.. I'd say the percentage to draft a franchise player is significantly higher than signing one from UFA.

Source: Every NHL season ever.

This. And you're not even taking into account that our GM is an incompetent arse. Plus all the negatives like the media, french (not starting a war here but lets be real it's a factor for incoming players), taxes, etc... oh and also the fact that star players don't usually go off signing on **** teams.

 

[habsfan909]

There’s a chance we could get him. But I’m so sick of hearing about him with the odds being so small. If we get him, great. But let’s discuss what we’ll do if we don’t get him which is FAR MORE likely. I was so sick of hearing “If we draft Dahlin and sign Tavares.” Atleast one of those things have been killed off so we don’t have to discuss it anymore.

If we don't sign Tavares, and we won't, then our centers are Danault, Pleks, DLR, McCarron, Shaw, Byron, Drouin.
The last 3 aren't even real centers lol

 

[WeThreeKings]

If we don't sign Tavares, and we won't, then our centers are Danault, Pleks, DLR, McCarron, Shaw, Byron, Drouin.
The last 3 aren't even real centers lol

Since 2007, we've drafted Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Price, Sergachyov, Galchenyuk. While not all are franchise players, they are in line to be, or are still top line players.

In that span, we have only gotten Radulov off free agency, for one year and Mike Cammalleri. So, I think even in that equation, it shows that drafting and development is simply the better option. Not to mention, ELCs in a cap world are a huge advantage over paying someone like Backes and Ladd 6-7 million at the end of their careers.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Yet that was the year they got Scheifele, so if they tanked or not matters because they got that pick despite not tanking.

Trading picks for veteran players, signing 40-50 point UFA forwards is the opposite of tanking. The fact they got high picks is irrelevant, they got those picks because they were a bad team, but rather then attempt to finish even lower in the standings, they tried to become a better team by adding decent-good players.

So you want us to emulate a management that iced a failed patch work and literally led its team to bankrupt ?

 

[habsfan909]

Since 2007, we've drafted Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, Price, Sergachyov, Galchenyuk. While not all are franchise players, they are in line to be, or are still top line players.

In that span, we have only gotten Radulov off free agency, for one year and Mike Cammalleri. So, I think even in that equation, it shows that drafting and development is simply the better option. Not to mention, ELCs in a cap world are a huge advantage over paying someone like Backes and Ladd 6-7 million at the end of their careers.

We also signed Gionta!
It's not hard...just look at the last bunch of cup winners. Their biggest stars were drafted by them. We just don't have any of those stars on our team. Except Price, formerly.

 

[scrubadam]

Don't really agree with you. While the return on Price would not be great, we could definitely move him if we were trying to dump him for pennies. Unfortunately, it's common practice for Habs land to refuse to trade players when they're at their best and to expect to get full value for them when they're at their worst. That's why our asset management has been so poor for so long.
Max had an off year... really off actually. And now Bergevin will act like he just netted 40 goals but he's not worth that right now. Really his true value is the cheap contract. Imagine we re-sign Max to 7 million a season or something? We will be so screwed lmao.

I don't know can you tell me a team that is willing to have a 30+ Price at 10.5? Keep in mind Price hasn't won anything in the playoffs and his playoff stats are actually at best average. And its an 8 year commitment. I just don't see a team doing that unless like I said habs retain 30% or more of the salary. Price at 7 or 6.5 maybe someone bites. But then we are holding 3-4 million of dead salary.

Max I agree. Unless he takes sub 6 he should not be resigned. Hopefully MB can pull a Lucic here and get a good pick or a good NHL player in return.

 

[scrubadam]

I don't buy that was simply a bad year.....I believe this is only the beginning of his decline,

IMO we would be lucky this season if he is at least equal to last seasons play....if not, it will be worse, not better

We will be lucky if he plays 30+ games this year.

 

[scrubadam]

2011 (As Atlanta): They traded picks in the offseason to get Ladd (2nd & prospect) & Byfuglien (1st & 2nd + prospects) and at the trade deadline added Wheeler.
2013: They signed Jokinen
2014: Traded 2nd, 3rd & 5th round picks to get Frolik & Setoguchi
2015: Signed Perreault, traded for Myers and then at the deadline for Stempniak

They consistently dealt picks/prospects for players and signed veteran top-6 players so how exactly is that considered tanking?

No more than the habs tanked in the same time frame. Habs will have 3 3rd Overall picks in their line up after 7 drafts. WPG only has 1 and that was because they jumped in the lottery.

Basically we should be cup favourites at this point since we tanked and got 3 top 3 picks in our line up. Plan the parade?

Or maybe it takes more than tanking. Yes you 100% need elite talent that is found generally at the top of the draft. But you need UFA/Trades and later picks to pan out too. NYI/FLA/ARZ/COL all "tanked" and aren't winning cups. TOR tanked and has been bounced in the 1st round twice and are looking at vets to sign and trade for. Tanking has just as much chance as succeeding as signing UFA's. Both are long shots and will fail if you don't manage and build the team properly.

Maybe Molson will understand that one day.