HF Habs: Whats YOUR plan ?

[WeThreeKings]

No more than the habs tanked in the same time frame. Habs will have 3 3rd Overall picks in their line up after 7 drafts. WPG only has 1 and that was because they jumped in the lottery.

Basically we should be cup favourites at this point since we tanked and got 3 top 3 picks in our line up. Plan the parade?

Or maybe it takes more than tanking. Yes you 100% need elite talent that is found generally at the top of the draft. But you need UFA/Trades and later picks to pan out too. NYI/FLA/ARZ/COL all "tanked" and aren't winning cups. TOR tanked and has been bounced in the 1st round twice and are looking at vets to sign and trade for. Tanking has just as much chance as succeeding as signing UFA's. Both are long shots and will fail if you don't manage and build the team properly.

Maybe Molson will understand that one day.

Tanking has absolutely more success than signing UFA's. Name me the teams that are competing for the Stanley Cup right now who have the core of their team built through UFA?

 

[scrubadam]

Tanking has absolutely more success than signing UFA's. Name me the teams that are competing for the Stanley Cup right now who have the core of their team built through UFA?

thats a bit of an unfair question since only 3 teams have dominated the cup over the past decade. There are plenty of teams that tanked and didn't win a cup so even a broken clock is right twice a day?

How about Rangers/Sharks/Bruins/Devils that all made finals that didn't "tank".

Even the Pens I would hardley call their last 2 cups from a tank. They sucked 13 years ago and won one cup. Their last 2 cups weren't from tanking, they traded for or signed guys like Kessel/Haglen/Bonino. They drafted Guentzel (good move on picking Connor Crips 6 picks ahead of him). If they were tanking they would of sold Malkin or Crosby and never traded a 1st for Kessel.

The habs have tanked as much as any team over the last 7 drafts. We will have 3 3rd picks. So are you saying we are going to win the cup now?

I am not opposed to seeing reality and going for a high pick if your season is toast like this year. If we know we have an Austin Matthews/Crosby draft up coming then I am not against the team standing pat and trying to draft high. But after you draft high you have to still draft good in the late rounds, hire the right coach, right GM, sign the right UFA's and trade for the right players.

Habs have 3 3rd OV picks in their line up, how many more top 3 picks do we need until we are done tanking and will win a cup?

 

[Sorinth]

I agree to an extent that the Jets for the most part were not tanking. What hurt them all those years was riding Pavelec as their starter. They never really tried getting a goalie either like the Flyers or Flames have been doing so it's a bit odd.

I seem to remember them being quite high on Hutchinson as a possible #1, so they probably figured no need to go out and get an established guy if they have someone who will develop into one in a few years. It obviously didn't work out in that way, but the end result is the same just a few years later with a different young goalie.

 

[Nikohab]

Keep Price and Weber.
Keep all our draft picks and get the best possible player(Boqvist)
Trade Patch for a young C and pick (if possible- Panthers)
Gallagher our new C
Trade Schlemko.
Keep Benn and give him another shot.
Sign UFA (Stastny or Bozak)
Sort out the bottom 9 and get rid of the fat.
Change of attitude and more character

 

[Habs Halifax]

thats a bit of an unfair question since only 3 teams have dominated the cup over the past decade. There are plenty of teams that tanked and didn't win a cup so even a broken clock is right twice a day?

How about Rangers/Sharks/Bruins/Devils that all made finals that didn't "tank".

Even the Pens I would hardley call their last 2 cups from a tank. They sucked 13 years ago and won one cup. Their last 2 cups weren't from tanking, they traded for or signed guys like Kessel/Haglen/Bonino. They drafted Guentzel (good move on picking Connor Crips 6 picks ahead of him). If they were tanking they would of sold Malkin or Crosby and never traded a 1st for Kessel.

The habs have tanked as much as any team over the last 7 drafts. We will have 3 3rd picks. So are you saying we are going to win the cup now?

I am not opposed to seeing reality and going for a high pick if your season is toast like this year. If we know we have an Austin Matthews/Crosby draft up coming then I am not against the team standing pat and trying to draft high. But after you draft high you have to still draft good in the late rounds, hire the right coach, right GM, sign the right UFA's and trade for the right players.

Habs have 3 3rd OV picks in their line up, how many more top 3 picks do we need until we are done tanking and will win a cup?

It's funny. I showed a potential depth chart 3 years down the road (including some solid picks in this next draft) and those who want us to tank today didn't like it . So somehow they don't like signing UFA's and they want us to tank and be the next Pens or Blackhawks but when you project our rosters forward based on our prospect pool and what we can get in the next draft, they still don't like it? . I guess the picks in the next draft are not enough and not proof that we are rebuilding. We missed on Dahlin and somehow we are going to get Hughes or Lafreniere for sure next year right? Heading into the year, many said the Sabres and Leafs are going to pass us and who ended up last? The Sabres. Look at the Sens, Eastern finalist to 2nd last the following year.

My plan? Is to rebuild on the fly. Trade expiring contracts like Patch and Byron and listen to offers for Petry, Price, Weber, Schlemko, Lindgren. I don't have a for sure plan as circumstances change by year to year but part of my strategy would be to not trade and picks and to try to acquire more. Just like we have done in the last two drafts. Keep er going and explore our options each summer. Tavares don't sign with us? No big deal... we head into next year with less pressure to win which will be a good thing for our team for a change!

Just imagine if Bergevin did what a lot of posters wanted us to do in the 2017 trade deadline... Sergachev, 2017 1st, + for Duchene. They criticized Bergevin for not making any impact moves and focued on making fun of the depth moves. Imagine... No Sergachev/Drouin and no Poehling and we are stuck with Duchene for one year like the Sens. Bergevin has made mistakes but he has not mortgaged the future! However, I am very curious to see what moves he makes this summer!

 

[Kent Nilsson]

thats a bit of an unfair question since only 3 teams have dominated the cup over the past decade. There are plenty of teams that tanked and didn't win a cup so even a broken clock is right twice a day?

How about Rangers/Sharks/Bruins/Devils that all made finals that didn't "tank".

Even the Pens I would hardley call their last 2 cups from a tank. They sucked 13 years ago and won one cup. Their last 2 cups weren't from tanking, they traded for or signed guys like Kessel/Haglen/Bonino. They drafted Guentzel (good move on picking Connor Crips 6 picks ahead of him). If they were tanking they would of sold Malkin or Crosby and never traded a 1st for Kessel.

The habs have tanked as much as any team over the last 7 drafts. We will have 3 3rd picks. So are you saying we are going to win the cup now?

I am not opposed to seeing reality and going for a high pick if your season is toast like this year. If we know we have an Austin Matthews/Crosby draft up coming then I am not against the team standing pat and trying to draft high. But after you draft high you have to still draft good in the late rounds, hire the right coach, right GM, sign the right UFA's and trade for the right players.

Habs have 3 3rd OV picks in their line up, how many more top 3 picks do we need until we are done tanking and will win a cup?

Wow youre really just arguing for the sake of it. Tanking is so succesful its opponents are down to redefine its meaning to fit their narrative. Pittsburgh tanked, and once it started working then they can work the details around it.

Chuk was mismanaged, Drouin sucks and was acquired by an idiot to begin with. Id say we need 3-4 more top 10ish picks before this team can start being taken seriously. Obviously we first need to get competent management and get rid of the dead weight (Price, Weber etc).

 

[Canadienna]

Habs have 3 3rd OV picks in their line up, how many more top 3 picks do we need until we are done tanking and will win a cup?

I've been obsessing over this.

Drouin, Galchenyuk... who am I missing?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Keep Price and Weber.
Keep all our draft picks and get the best possible player(Boqvist)
Trade Patch for a young C and pick (if possible- Panthers)
Gallagher our new C
Trade Schlemko.
Keep Benn and give him another shot.
Sign UFA (Stastny or Bozak)
Sort out the bottom 9 and get rid of the fat.
Change of attitude and more character

Sounds like a recipe for middle of the pack team?

- Keep Price and Weber but listen to offers if a team is interested. Tell them the price to acquire and hold firm. If we retain salary, price to acquire goes up.

- Trade Patch for 1st round pick (8-15 range). Hope a few teams are interested. Add a piece like Lindgren or Hudon in package deal where we get a prospect at center back and a 1st round pick. If it don't materialize, keep Patch and have him head into the year on a contract year. Trade him at the deadline or re-sign him to a team friendly deal. He's not washed up, If no team is interested or willing to pay the price. Keep him. If we sign him to a team friendly deal, we can still trade him at a later date. He is only 30 next year and he wants to stay in Montreal. If he wants north of $6M and more than 5 years, trade him at next deadline

- Trade Byron and/or Petry. Both have high value. We may lose Petry in the next expansion draft if we Protect Weber, Mete, Juulsen. Petry just got 42 pts with 12 goals. His value is very high for the next 3 years. There would be lots of interest in Byron too! I also agree with trading Schlemko. Alzner, Benn, Shaw as well. All depends on what the offer is.

- Make Weber the new captain. Gallagher as captain might be a distraction and extra attention where if doesn't produce or goes into a slump, he gets thrown under the bus. We need Gallagher focused on what he does. Weber can handle it.

- Tavares and all in with other moves or no UFA signings. None! We have the depth to compete for another top 5 pick and a full roster already. Makes no sense to compete for middle of the pack by adding Stastny or Bozak. Time for a new strategy... Big fish or no fish. Please, no more Alzner type contracts!

- Better attitude comes with less pressure to win. We had a terrible off season last year and the expectations to win heading into the year was not a good situation. We had one of the worse starts in franchise history. Team had no confidence due to losing Radulov and Markov and Julien didn't run a good camp IMO. Way to passive! The next camp will be much different

 

[Whitesnake]

I guess tanking was already mentioned? Yeah, that has to be it. We don't have the vets that goes with a young great depth. And we don't have the great young studs to go with great vets. This team is build by the Egyptian architect in the Asterix books/movies. There are too many things missing. But everything starts with firing the GM. You do not give a plan to build a new house to the one who f***ed it up in the first place.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I've been obsessing over this.

Drouin, Galchenyuk... who am I missing?

Our next pick?

 

[TheBuriedHab]

We have 3 major holes that are usually only filled by drafting. 2 top 6 centers and a top pairing puck moving defenseman. Good thing we traded our stud puck moving defenseman for a winger last year. Signing more players to inflated contracts in UFA is a dumb move and its punishment for not drafting and/or managing assets properly. If their plan is to indeed blow their load in free agency on aging players this summer its gonna get even uglier before it gets better.

 

[Canadienna]

Our next pick?

Not in the lineup... and doesn't make sense with his point that the 3rd OV picks aren't helping us win.

We ACTUALLY have 2 3OV picks in the lineup.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wow youre really just arguing for the sake of it. Tanking is so succesful its opponents are down to redefine its meaning to fit their narrative. Pittsburgh tanked, and once it started working then they can work the details around it.

Chuk was mismanaged, Drouin sucks and was acquired by an idiot to begin with. Id say we need 3-4 more top 10ish picks before this team can start being taken seriously. Obviously we first need to get competent management and get rid of the dead weight (Price, Weber etc).

Still dreaming that you can tank like the Pens and not the Coyotes, Sabres, Hurricanes eh? When was the last time a team got multiple 1st in a row? Wait for it... The Oilers. 1st round picks since 2007 are as follows... That's 4 1st over all picks and 6 top 10 picks. You would think they would of won multiple cups like the Pens by now right? How many years are the Oilers going to rebuild? 15 years? lol How about the Jets? Imagine if they traded Byfuglien cause they were "tanking and rebuilding". Imagine their team right now without him in the playoffs? He's been a beast for them! Best strategy is to rebuild on the fly and perhaps trade expiring contracts.

07: Gagner (6)
08: Eberle (22)
09: Paajarvi (10)
10: Hall (1)
11: RNH (1)
12: Yakupov (1)
13: Nurse (7)
14: Drai (3)
15: McDavid (1)
16: Puljujarvi (4)
17: Yamamto (22)
18: 10th pick

(MOD)

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not in the lineup... and doesn't make sense with his point that the 3rd OV picks aren't helping us win.

We ACTUALLY have 2 3OV picks in the lineup.

Well, I see his point. Don't you? Look at the post about the Oilers I just posted. Tanking on purpose don't result in your team turning into the Pens. Pens didn't tank on purpose, the tripped into bad years at the right time! Crosby/Malkin can do that. Can McDavid and company also do that? Not yet

 

[Canadienna]

Well, I see his point. Don't you? Look at the post about the Oilers I just posted. Tanking on purpose don't result in your team turning into the Pens. Pens didn't tank on purpose, the tripped into bad years at the right time! Crosby/Malkin can do that. Can McDavid and company also do that? Not yet

I don't think nor ever said that tanking turns your team into the Pens, I don't think anyone ITT says it does. I've stayed out of this argument and just asked a question for clarification as scrubadam made an error.

 

[scrubadam]

Wow youre really just arguing for the sake of it. Tanking is so succesful its opponents are down to redefine its meaning to fit their narrative. Pittsburgh tanked, and once it started working then they can work the details around it.

Chuk was mismanaged, Drouin sucks and was acquired by an idiot to begin with. Id say we need 3-4 more top 10ish picks before this team can start being taken seriously. Obviously we first need to get competent management and get rid of the dead weight (Price, Weber etc).

So what is tanking then? Habs got Price in 2005 if we win a cup is it because we tanked? Pens got Crosby the same draft. Or is tanking sucking for 3 years and then 13 years later adding the final pieces?

Adding high draft picks = tanking, so wheres the habs cup because we have 3 top 3 picks in our team (after this years draft).

So we need another 4 years of finishing at the bottom and then we will win the cup? Like ARZ/COL/EDM/TOR ? 7 top 10/5 picks is the solution?

I agree about the competent management statement, but the catch 22 is that when you have competent management, they build a competent team that wins hockey games and you dont tank anymore. Tanking really means you have bad managment that makes bad trades/UFA's/Drafts. Thats why EDM and TOR tanked for all those years. Not some master plan Burke and Lowe were just bad at their jobs.

I support what Shanny did to get Matthews. But notice how after getting that pick he didn't tank the next year he signed vets, got a goalie, traded for Pleks.

 

[scrubadam]

I've been obsessing over this.

Drouin, Galchenyuk... who am I missing?

Who ever we pick (as long as MB doesn't trade)

3 over the last 7 drafts, thats nearly one every 2 years.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

Who ever we pick (as long as MB doesn't trade)

3 over the last 7 drafts, thats nearly one every 2 years.

Alzner is a top 5 pick, is he a part of our tank ?

 

[vokiel]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit:



Look at the nosy Molson in that vid...

 

[SnapVirus]

Carey Price
Jo Drouin
Alex Galchenyuk

Are all top 5

 

[yianik]

The objective is the Cup, not just making the play offs.

I am wary about moves that make us better, but not good enough, so that we make the play offs, lose, draft late, and waste assets. Like we have done the past 6 years for the most part.

Our big holes are 2 top 6 Cs ( I like Danault, but just not good enough as a 2C for a contender ) and a top pair PMLD ).

Tavares is a long shot but that is where we are. Get Tavares and maybe a re tool might be all that we need.

No Tavares means we need a couple of top 6 Cs and that puts us into rebuild mode.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Alzner is a top 5 pick, is he a part of our tank ?

Arguably yes.. he helps the tank

 

[scrubadam]

Alzner is a top 5 pick, is he a part of our tank ?

If you want to add Price in there then you can add Alzner too.

But 3 top 3 picks over 7 drafts is not different then what teams like WPG/TOR/EDM/TB have on their team. Habs tanked because MB did a bad job which is the only true way you tank. If you have good management then you don't have a loser hockey team. And if you have bad management even if you tank you won't turn it around, case in point TOR and EDM and ARZ.

 

[scrubadam]

The objective is the Cup, not just making the play offs.

I am wary about moves that make us better, but not good enough, so that we make the play offs, lose, draft late, and waste assets. Like we have done the past 6 years for the most part.

Our big holes are 2 top 6 Cs ( I like Danault, but just not good enough as a 2C for a contender ) and a top pair PMLD ).

Tavares is a long shot but that is where we are. Get Tavares and maybe a re tool might be all that we need.

No Tavares means we need a couple of top 6 Cs and that puts us into rebuild mode.

Problem is there is no formula to win the cup. So if you want to be at the bottom until you think you have the magic formula and then voila one season later you win the cup its almost impossible. If Pens had to suck for 4 years straight, lose a final, win a cup and then not get back for almost a decade and in the meantime get guys like Kessel/Haglin/Bonino and draft a Guentzel late and Murray etc...

Add in the fact that you can't predict when we can draft two top 6 C's, let alone that the guys you draft will be top 6 C's. You an wind up with RNH and AG after you tank. Those guys aren't the Crosby/Malkins of the world.

I think you can tank in two situations. 1 you are out of the playoffs early so you just try and lose and trade of good players. Like the habs did this year and 2 years ago. Or you pull a leafs and you know its an Matthews draft and you do a 1 year surgical tank. So if MB strikes out on JT (you can't not try to get a talent like him) then he can decide to throw the season and not sign any UFA/improve the team down the middle and on D and hope Price stinks so we get another low pick.

But thats it, planning to be bad for a couple years in a row on the hopes that the guys you draft can turn your loser franchise around is just a long shot as signing JT and Carlsson. If accumulating high picks=cup well plan the parade because as I said we will have 3 3rd OVA picks in our line up soon from the last 7 drafts. So according to tank theory we should be up for our 3 cups like the Pens and Hawks.

 

[yianik]

Problem is there is no formula to win the cup. So if you want to be at the bottom until you think you have the magic formula and then voila one season later you win the cup its almost impossible. If Pens had to suck for 4 years straight, lose a final, win a cup and then not get back for almost a decade and in the meantime get guys like Kessel/Haglin/Bonino and draft a Guentzel late and Murray etc...

Add in the fact that you can't predict when we can draft two top 6 C's, let alone that the guys you draft will be top 6 C's. You an wind up with RNH and AG after you tank. Those guys aren't the Crosby/Malkins of the world.

I think you can tank in two situations. 1 you are out of the playoffs early so you just try and lose and trade of good players. Like the habs did this year and 2 years ago. Or you pull a leafs and you know its an Matthews draft and you do a 1 year surgical tank. So if MB strikes out on JT (you can't not try to get a talent like him) then he can decide to throw the season and not sign any UFA/improve the team down the middle and on D and hope Price stinks so we get another low pick.

But thats it, planning to be bad for a couple years in a row on the hopes that the guys you draft can turn your loser franchise around is just a long shot as signing JT and Carlsson. If accumulating high picks=cup well plan the parade because as I said we will have 3 3rd OVA picks in our line up soon from the last 7 drafts. So according to tank theory we should be up for our 3 cups like the Pens and Hawks.

I guess I dont look at it in terms of tanking or not.

So if we get Tavares, and let's say trade Chucky for Hanifin, then I see we can be close to contending right now. Draft an elite winger. Trade Patches for a top C prospect plus.

If no Tavares then guys like ROR or Stastny don't get it done in my view. Then to me we are wasting Weber as an asset, so trade him, trade Patches and I would still do Chucky for Hanifin.

Call it tanking or whatever. I prefer young already drafted guys who look promising but have not yet taken that next step. Hanifin right not is 2nd pairing and I think he is going to break out to top pairing ability on a consistent basis next year, but he hasn't done it yet.