What's it gonna take

[14ari13]

Mrazek is top 10 SV%, Howard has fallen out of top 30.

 

[newfy]

But that's exactly what the "nonsense" picture was saying. You've made a correlation to causation argument that I don't think tells the whole story. Like, at all. Just because you can line up data points doesn't mean that's the reason.

When the Wings lost to the Sharks those years, it wasn't due to being bullied around. Quite the opposite. They have a skill player like Jumbo Joe who is soft as a *****cat. Joe Pavelski was the Wings killer, standing at under 6 feet. I think Douglas Murray alone was throwing off those averages by a literally wide margin. The narrative of those series was never the big, bad Sharks pushing around the Wings. The Wings didn't get muscled at all in the sieges they lost to Chicago. The Hawks won the Cup with the fewest fighting majors of the entire year. How big and physical was the triplets line that smoked the Wings last year?

Eh I think the Sharks not facing any retribution for snowing Howard every single time he froze the puck to get him off his game played a role in that series loss to San Jose.

Even if you dont buy fighting deters cheap shots (which I think it does to an extent), theres no denying that hard, physical hockey does have an impact in playoff series and that the wings are lacking in that department. Generally guys that play a hard physical game are also willing to drop the gloves as well.

Are idiots at a bar more likely to try to pick a fight with a 6'5 muscular guy or a 5'7 dweeb? I think the 6'5 big tough guy has an intimdation factor that will at least deter some guys from trying to fight/start trouble with him or his freinds compared to the 5'7 guy. Hockey players aren't some mythical creature that cant get intimidated. Do you think Hudler would drop the gloves with Zdeno Chara? Because he would with 180 lb, 6 foot Landon Ferraro. To think that being big and tough doesnt at least deter a little bit seems pretty foolish to me.

Now I'm not saying an enforcer is needed on the wings at all but they could use another Abdelkader type in the line up at the very least. ANother guy like him with a fourth line bruiser like Matt Martin would be perfect. Thats a balance of grit and skill the wings havent had since they last won the cup

 

[Winger98]

I agree. The correlation that I'm trying to make by pointing out fighting majors, is that the players that play the game that way (size, sandpaper, take the body, back the other team up), more often than not, end up fighting throughout the season. The fighting majors are an indication that these teams have the gritty types of players on their roster and that the Wings do not. The fights come as a result of having players play a tough, gritty type of hockey that opens up space, not necessarily that BECAUSE of the fighting they open up space.

Fair enough, though I think you could show the same thing through hits. Yeah, it's not the greatest stat in the world, but I don't think hit numbers are necessarily way out of whack, either.

 

[chances14]

i don't think fighting would have deterred the sharks from snowing howard. they kept doing it because they knew it was getting howard off his game, not because they knew somebody on the wings wouldn't fight.

but again, nobody is denying that the wings couldn't use more physicality on their roster

 

[newfy]

i don't think fighting would have deterred the sharks from snowing howard. they kept doing it because they knew it was getting howard off his game, not because they knew somebody on the wings wouldn't fight.

but again, nobody is denying that the wings couldn't use more physicality on their roster

Disagree I guess. Someone on the wings stepping up and punching one of them in the head would have stopped at least a few of the softer Sharks from snowing Howard. Or a guy that says if you snow him again I'll put you 15 rows up through the boards and is actually capable.

Its just bully mentality, every now and then a victim needs to stand up and punch someone in the head. The wings get bullied sometimes and could use another person on the roster that will stick up for themself.

 

[Bench]

but again, nobody is denying that the wings couldn't use more physicality on their roster

Yeah, I agree with that part. Hard to imagine many of us don't.

My sticking point is that it's somehow connected with fighting majors and intimidation. I don't think that will help at all with protection or wins. Having size and strength, though, is extremely important to winning a physical game. Just for the purposes that happen during the play, not between the whistles.

I get the argument though, that guys who play a rougher game also tend to fight, thus maybe fighting majors equals a bigger and more physical team. Maybe. But that's rarely how the narrative is discussed in regards to adding guys who will stick up for teammates. Usually it harks back to the era of the Detroit and Colorado rivalry, goalie fights and all.

 

[GMR]

I want the Wings to make a concerted effort to identify and acquire the next Shanahan and McCarty and Lapointe.

I want the next Jamie Benn (drafted at 129th overall after the Wings had selected Smith and Andersson).

Ouch. Jim Nill must be reminded of that every day.

 

[Bench]

Ouch. Jim Nill must be reminded of that every day.

You know how many times in years past I heard Dallas fans lament the drafting by Detroit of Zetterberg and Datsyuk? Too many to count.

It's like I'm watching an ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail.

 

[InjuredChoker]

there's a pretty good draft story on benn in somewhere. his skating was really awkward (it's still a bit awkward but now he can move around very well for a big guy) and he wasn't 100% on hockey yet. and he played in bchl. and tyler bozak had almost twice as many points as benn did on his draft year. and bozak went undrafted though he's couple of years older.

 

[sepster]

Oh yeah, there's tons of draft stories like that. Like the '87 draft when the Wings selected Yves Racine 4 spots in front of Quebec taking Joe Sakic. Or drafting Primeau one spot in front of Jagr.

I brought that up because if the Wings are going to draft a Jamie Benn or a David Backes or the like, they need to change their drafting philosophy. They are always looking for "skill players." I.E. players who have high hockey IQ, passing and skating skills. They need to recognize that getting a guy who can hit on the forecheck, play physical, fight, get the opposing team off their game, etc. Those are skills too. It's easy to say Sheahan should be more physical or Abdelkader should be a better fighter, but at this level, those are things that just can't happen out of nowhere. Just like you can't teach Helm or Glendenning to have hands like Pav or Z. A player has to hone that skill over the course of their development.

High end Power Forwards in the NHL are as rare and as valuable as true #1 Dmen or #1 Centers. If the Wings want to get one, they're most likely going to have to draft one and they will not draft one if they don't expand their drafting philosophy.