What will the Avalanche do at 2?

[nanzenkills]

I don't know, but "passable wing depth when fully healthy" looks like weak wing depth to me.

Add it to the fact that they've really got no reasonably promising wingers in their system makes it even more obvious that their wing depth is weak.

Gabriel Landeskog it is.

Only if the Avalanche think he's BPA. They don't draft on positional need in the first round, look at Hishon last year.

 

[boredmale]

This is actually a really good post, and while I agree with your premise it looks like you're looking at it very selectively. Those are top scoring, but not necessarily the top 10 defenseman in the league. You've got to remember a defenseman's job is both offense and defense so looking at a top 10 scoring list is not a sufficient way to judge talent. I'll 10 more defenseman who would factor in somewhere in a top 20 and displace a bunch of those you listed overall. (Byfuglien, Wisniewski..etc).

Chris Pronger (2nd overall)
Mike Green (29th overall)
Zdeno Chara (56th overall)
Drew Doughty (2nd overall)
Ryan Suter (7th overall)
Jack Johnson (3rd overall)
Duncan Keith (54th overall)
Brent Seabrook (14th overall)
Brent Burns (20th overall)
Marc Staal (12th overall)

Fair enough(which is why I said it probably would be doing a better top 20 lists for Forwards and Defense). My basic point was it is seems like you are better to find good defensemen(and even more so goalies) with later picks then good forwards(although I would probably make the dividing point 15th pick and higher/lower since you probably can point to a slightly higher percentage of defensemen who made a mark at 16-30 then forwards).

Just looking at past drafts I just notice a decent amount of good defenemen slipping to late first/2nd round(more so then forwards)

 

[17Kurri]

Only if the Avalanche think he's BPA. They don't draft on positional need in the first round, look at Hishon last year.

He's not some plug, he can easily warrant 2nd overall.

 

[PeterTheGreat]

I don't know, but "passable wing depth when fully healthy" looks like weak wing depth to me.

Add it to the fact that they've really got no reasonably promising wingers in their system makes it even more obvious that their wing depth is weak.

Gabriel Landeskog it is.

It's more than passable if we are fully healthy. That's the catch though.

If fully healthy we have going into next year:

Hejduk
Jones
Fleischmann
Mueller
Galiardi
Hishon(will likely be shifted to wing)

Thing is, there are some question marks there. Will Flash re-sign? Will Mueller stay healthy?

I'd be happy with either of the two Swedes.

 

[17Kurri]

It's more than passable if we are fully healthy. That's the catch though.

If fully healthy we have going into next year:

Hejduk
Jones
Fleischmann
Mueller
Galiardi
Hishon(will likely be shifted to wing)

Thing is, there are some question marks there. Will Flash re-sign? Will Mueller stay healthy?

I'd be happy with either of the two Swedes.

Fair enough, but imo:

Hejduk's near the end of his rope.
Jones' somewhat of an injury concern.
Fleischmann, Mueller, Galiardi, and Yip are still question marks.
Hishon is just a good centre prospect still.

 

[punchnpie]

From merriamwebster.com:

Consensus: a : general agreement : unanimity <the consensus of their opinion, based on reports … from the border — John Hersey>

b : the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned <the consensus was to go ahead>

To reach a consensus, you only need a majority, not necessarily unanimity.

IN YO FACE!

 

[R S]

Since when is RNH the consensus No 1 pick? I'd rather expect that to be Larsson.

Fair enough, but imo:

Hejduk's near the end of his rope.
Jones' somewhat of an injury concern.
Fleischmann, Mueller, Galiardi, and Yip are still question marks.
Hishon is just a good centre prospect still.

Maybe to someone on the outside looking at our team. Avs fans know what all those players bring to the table, when healthy, and are more than comfortable with their roles on the team. Flash and Mueller in the top 6. Gali and Yip in the bottom 6.

 

[17Kurri]

Maybe to someone on the outside looking at our team. Avs fans know what all those players bring to the table, when healthy, and are more than comfortable with their roles on the team. Flash and Mueller in the top 6. Gali and Yip in the bottom 6.

Please. There are no known or sure fire commodities there. It's all still up in the air yet.

If you guys are comfortable with your wing depth, so be it. I just don't get how you can be (and it's not due to lack of perspective).

 

[R S]

Please. There are no known or sure fire commodities there. It's all still up in the air yet.

If you guys are comfortable with your wing depth, so be it. I just don't get how you can be (and it's not due to lack of perspective).

Of course they are sure fire. Both Mueller and Flash have fit in with this team more than anyone could have expected. When looking at our team over the next 4-5 years, both Mueller and Flash are definitely being pencilled into our top 6, and I am fine with that.

The Avs didn't suck ass down the stretch this year because they have bad wingers. They were so terrible because the good wingers (yeah, ok, not GREAT wingers) were injured.

As for Galiardi and Yip, they are definitely solid bottom 6 players. Hell, Gali has spent time in our top 6 when healthy and has looked like one of our most dangerous players on a regular basis. Once again, he was totally not healthy. I hate Yip and think he is big and lazy, but he still hits enough to be effective as a 4th line RW.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Maybe to someone on the outside looking at our team. Avs fans know what all those players bring to the table, when healthy, and are more than comfortable with their roles on the team. Flash and Mueller in the top 6. Gali and Yip in the bottom 6.

When healthy are the big question marks though. Even if their health was guaranteed I would not be comfortable with our top 6 wingers going into next season.

Flash, Mueller, Jones, Duke.

At the best of times Flash and Mueller are soft. Duke doesn't hesitate to go into the scoring areas but he's no physical presence. Of the entire top 6 including wingers and centres, only Jones will ever throw a hit.

Also none of them are particularly adept at establishing a forecheck and retrieving pucks in the defensive zone. In theory a top 6 of those guys plus Duchene and Stastny would play a great puck possession game. But as we saw this season that too often the defense don't make good outlet passes or the forwards aren't properly supporting each other. Tough to play a puck possession game that way, generally the forward is just forced to dump the puck in.

 

[17Kurri]

Of course they are sure fire. Both Mueller and Flash have fit in with this team more than anyone could have expected. When looking at our team over the next 4-5 years, both Mueller and Flash are definitely being pencilled into our top 6, and I am fine with that.

The Avs didn't suck ass down the stretch this year because they have bad wingers. They were so terrible because the good wingers (yeah, ok, not GREAT wingers) were injured.

As for Galiardi and Yip, they are definitely solid bottom 6 players. Hell, Gali has spent time in our top 6 when healthy and has looked like one of our most dangerous players on a regular basis. Once again, he was totally not healthy. I hate Yip and think he is big and lazy, but he still hits enough to be effective as a 4th line RW.

I can respect your opinion, but it doesn't work for me. I would not be comfortable with the Avs' wing depth if I were an Avs fan.

Other than Hejduk, who is in his golden years career wise, which of the Avs "regular" wingers don't have injury histories and/or concerns?

Add to that they don't really have any reasonable wing prospects in the system and it's enough cause for concern to warrant taking Landeskog at the 2nd slot.

That said, I can appreciate Avs' fans wanting Larsson. But it puzzles me that many of you believe Johnson is a stud in the making (I wholeheartedly do not believe he is) and still want Larsson even though Landeskog is held in essentially the same regard (and would appear to be the better fit organizational depth wise).

Anyway, to each his own, I suppose.

 

[R S]

I can respect your opinion, but it doesn't work for me. I would not be comfortable with the Avs' wing depth if I were an Avs fan.

Other than Hejduk, who is in his golden years career wise, which of the Avs "regular" wingers don't have injury histories and/or concerns?

Add to that they don't really have any reasonable wing prospects in the system and it's enough cause for concern to warrant taking Landeskog at the 2nd slot.

That said, I can appreciate Avs' fans wanting Larsson. But it puzzles me that many of you believe Johnson is a stud in the making (I wholeheartedly do not believe he is) and still want Larsson even though Landeskog is held in essentially the same regard (and would appear to be the better fit organizational depth wise).

Anyway, to each his own, I suppose.

Well first of all I said I am more than comfortable with the Avs top 6-9 wingers WHEN HEALTHY. Yes, they are injury prone. But WHEN HEALTHY, they have very solid current group.

Secondly, I never said anything about the Avs wingers in the system. I agree that that is their biggest concern franchise-wise. That's part of the reason why I see Hishon as a winger in the future.

 

[maple8]

I can respect your opinion, but it doesn't work for me. I would not be comfortable with the Avs' wing depth if I were an Avs fan.

Other than Hejduk, who is in his golden years career wise, which of the Avs "regular" wingers don't have injury histories and/or concerns?

Add to that they don't really have any reasonable wing prospects in the system and it's enough cause for concern to warrant taking Landeskog at the 2nd slot.

That said, I can appreciate Avs' fans wanting Larsson. But it puzzles me that many of you believe Johnson is a stud in the making (I wholeheartedly do not believe he is) and still want Larsson even though Landeskog is held in essentially the same regard (and would appear to be the better fit organizational depth wise).

Anyway, to each his own, I suppose.

"Wing depth" is a nice thing to have, but it has never won anybody the Stanley cup. That's why I'm far less worried about having quality "wing depth" than I am about having a solid defense. Hence, Larsson.

 

[17Kurri]

Well first of all I said I am more than comfortable with the Avs top 6-9 wingers WHEN HEALTHY. Yes, they are injury prone. But WHEN HEALTHY, they have very solid current group.

Secondly, I never said anything about the Avs wingers in the system. I agree that that is their biggest concern franchise-wise. That's part of the reason why I see Hishon as a winger in the future.

If you're going to use the "when healthy" qualifier, you can't really call them "sure fire", can you?

 

[17Kurri]

"Wing depth" is a nice thing to have, but it has never won anybody the Stanley cup. That's why I'm far less worried about having quality "wing depth" than I am about having a solid defense. Hence, Larsson.

No single position, with the possible exception of a hot goaltender, wins a team the Stanley Cup.

That said, we're not talking about a Stanley Cup here. But when you guys are talking about a Stanley Cup, you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll be talking about your wing depth.

Back on point, though, at this stage of your team's development, you guys need top end wingers more than anything else. If you guys are sold on EJ, plus the relatively exceptional dmen in your system, then Landeskog is the most logical choice.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Our centers can make most wingers look good. We don't need any elite wingers for Duchene or Stastny, we can score goals without elite wingers. What we do need though, is another franchise dman. That will change how the entire team can play.

 

[Habs 1909]

Larsson and E. Johnson on the back-end. Not bad at all.

Can't go wrong with Landeskog either. All in all, the Avs future looks bright especially with Duchene going forward.

 

[chewey]

 

[brtriad]

Can someone explain to me in what respect Landeskog is a better prospect than Couturier?

 

[shadow1]

I can respect your opinion, but it doesn't work for me. I would not be comfortable with the Avs' wing depth if I were an Avs fan.

Aside from maybe the center depth of Stastny/Duchene/O'Reilly/McClement, there isn't an aspect of the Avalanche's roster that I would associate comfort with.

Other than Hejduk, who is in his golden years career wise, which of the Avs "regular" wingers don't have injury histories and/or concerns?

Add to that they don't really have any reasonable wing prospects in the system and it's enough cause for concern to warrant taking Landeskog at the 2nd slot.

It's obvious the Avalanche don't have good wing depth. But even so, Landeskog shouldn't be their surefire draft target because of the fact (though they may ultimately take him). Colorado should be going after the best player available, especially when they need players at all positions.

That said, I can appreciate Avs' fans wanting Larsson. But it puzzles me that many of you believe Johnson is a stud in the making (I wholeheartedly do not believe he is) and still want Larsson even though Landeskog is held in essentially the same regard (and would appear to be the better fit organizational depth wise).

Anyway, to each his own, I suppose.

You'd be surprised what giving up a fan favorite goal scorer and the top prospect of the past three years will do to a fan's skills of perception.

I've been a fan of the Johnson trade since the start, simply because I believe the contributions he'll be making to the roster outweigh those of Stewart and Shattenkirk, even though the latter was my favorite player on the team prior to the deal.

That said, Johnson's hockey sense (or lack therefore of) is apparent. Some Avalanche fans may point out his age or the fact that "every player makes mistakes" (something I was informed of just yesterday), but only rosy glasses can prevent someone from seeing that questionable decision making, not talent, is the biggest thorn in the side of Johnson's young career.

 

[maple8]

No single position, with the possible exception of a hot goaltender, wins a team the Stanley Cup.

That said, we're not talking about a Stanley Cup here. But when you guys are talking about a Stanley Cup, you can bet your bottom dollar that you'll be talking about your wing depth.

Back on point, though, at this stage of your team's development, you guys need top end wingers more than anything else. If you guys are sold on EJ, plus the relatively exceptional dmen in your system, then Landeskog is the most logical choice.

I never said good wingers were not important to winning a Stanley Cup. You're not talking about having good wingers. You're talking about having enough good wingers that you have a few available to step in in case of injuries. That's wing depth it's a lower priority when building a team than having a defense that can give up fewer than 3 goals a game once in a blue moon.

 

[PeterTheGreat]

That said, Johnson's hockey sense (or lack therefore of) is apparent. Some Avalanche fans may point out his age or the fact that "every player makes mistakes" (something I was informed of just yesterday), but only rosy glasses can prevent someone from seeing that questionable decision making, not talent, is the biggest thorn in the side of Johnson's young career.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

EJ has fine hockey sense. Its when he feels the need to carry the team on his back is when he gets himself into some trouble. That will come in time (both being more mature and getting some more talented players around him). But that has nothing to do with his hockey sense. He reads the game very well for a guy his age in the NHL. I really don't get where this perceived lack of "hockey sense" comes from. Oh, maybe its because he's 22 years old and hasn't been nominated for the Norris yet. BUST!!1!

 

[PeterTheGreat]

I can respect your opinion, but it doesn't work for me. I would not be comfortable with the Avs' wing depth if I were an Avs fan.

Other than Hejduk, who is in his golden years career wise, which of the Avs "regular" wingers don't have injury histories and/or concerns?

Add to that they don't really have any reasonable wing prospects in the system and it's enough cause for concern to warrant taking Landeskog at the 2nd slot.

That said, I can appreciate Avs' fans wanting Larsson. But it puzzles me that many of you believe Johnson is a stud in the making (I wholeheartedly do not believe he is) and still want Larsson even though Landeskog is held in essentially the same regard (and would appear to be the better fit organizational depth wise).

Anyway, to each his own, I suppose.

You may or may not remember, but the last time the Avs won the cup, they had THREE number 1 defencemen (Bourque, Blake and Foote). Just because we now have EJ doesn't mean we should pass on another potential number 1 defenceman.

Yes, wing is perhaps a bigger area of weakness organizationally, but Stanley Cup winning teams are built through the middle. Goaltending, Defence and Centermen.

I feel that having a core of Duchene, Stastny, O'Reilly, McClement down the middle, with EJ and Larsson on the backend is a heck of a foundation to build around.

I think you can ask most every hockey fan and they'll tell you the same thing. All things being equal, defencemen are more valuable and more important to a teams success than wingers.

 

[CB Joe]

I don't know, but "passable wing depth when fully healthy" looks like weak wing depth to me.

Add it to the fact that they've really got no reasonably promising wingers in their system makes it even more obvious that their wing depth is weak.

Gabriel Landeskog it is.

Colorado's wing depth is an area of concern. However the wing depth is not at the point that Colorado has to take a winger at #2, unless the scouts believe that Landeskog is the BPA. Should Colorado feel like addressing the winger depth in the system this draft it can be done with the #11 pick instead.

Not including Hejduk, as he will obviously retire in the near future, Colorado still has some young options. Mueller 23yr, Jones 26yr, Hishon 19yr and Fleischmann 27, should he return next season. There is also Galiardi 22yr, but he may have to settle for a bottom 6 role instead.

While Colorado did finish second last in the NHL, the team was among the top of the league leaders in goals scored, for the majority of the season. I am comfortable enough with Colorado's ability to score that a winger does not need to take top priority. Also, every free-agency period there is always plenty of winger options. Colorado being at the bottom of the league in committed payroll could easily pursue a winger in the off-season should a need arise.

 

[shadow1]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here.

EJ has fine hockey sense. Its when he feels the need to carry the team on his back is when he gets himself into some trouble. That will come in time (both being more mature and getting some more talented players around him). But that has nothing to do with his hockey sense. He reads the game very well for a guy his age in the NHL. I really don't get where this perceived lack of "hockey sense" comes from. Oh, maybe its because he's 22 years old and hasn't been nominated for the Norris yet. BUST!!1!

Yeah, like hanging onto the puck too long or trying to carry it into the zone himself and losing it. Trying to do too much is a poor decision, and at times leads to other poor decisions. Johnson is 6'4", can skate as well as a guy who's 6'0", is as strong as an ox, and has a cannon of a slap shot.

If his hockey sense is "fine", then what's holding him back from being in the same breath as Drew Doughty? Sure isn't his skill, at least not in my opinion.