Salary Cap: What will Hughes do with our 8.8M in cap space heading into the season?

[Runner77]

I think waving Hoffman is precisely the thing you don't want to do if you intend to build a reputation among players and agents. That's why I don't understand why wasn't he bought out, unless they find some more efficient way to move him out.

Given how Hoffman is on an expiring contract and how there is likely no demand for him at this time, he’s likely a deadline deal attempt with the Habs retaining. If not, then a turd is a turd is a turd. No amount of polish can save it. Merci, Marc!

You don't think they would do another Monahan trade if something like that came up?

Flat cap next season says it’s a reasonable probability.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Buying out Hoffman really isn't an option as he is off of the books after this season and to spread his cap hit into further season when we will need the cap space to go after free agents or to trade for high priced player just doesn't make sense. If Hughes can move him for no return while eating half of his salary I am sure he will do that but such an opportunity may require a preseason or in season injury to take place in order to nudge a team in Hughe's direction.

If we can't move him then we are better off just keeping him on the roster as injuries are bound to happen and if not maybe we can rotate him in and out of the lineup until an injury opens a spot for him.

I can see Evans being moved for a late pick to clear a roster spot as well which moves everyone clawing for a spot up a rung.

Roster players to keep unless overwhelming deal, in rough order:
Suzuki
Caufield
Dach
Matheson
Guhle
Slafkovsky
Newhook
Barron
Montembeault

Tradeable roster players for fair value:
Xhekaj
Monahan
Anderson
RHP
Savard
Harris
Kovacevic
Allen

Tradeable roster players to throw into a deal or even just to make space:
Dvorak
Gallagher
Armia
Hoffman
Evans
Pitlick
Pezzetta
Ylonen
Wideman

Prospects to maybe move on from if an opportunity arises:
Mysak
Norlinder

 

[sampollock]

kent is going to sit on the coin, until next year.. no need to spend it
unless he gets a salay dump that proves to good to be true

 

[Kimota]

Whores and cocaine.

 

[Runner77]

Whores and cocaine.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Roster players to keep unless overwhelming deal, in rough order:
Suzuki
Caufield
Dach
Matheson
Guhle
Slafkovsky
Newhook
Barron
Montembeault

Tradeable roster players for fair value:
Xhekaj
Monahan
Anderson
RHP
Savard
Harris
Kovacevic
Allen

Tradeable roster players to make space or throw into a deal:
Dvorak
Gallagher
Armia
Hoffman
Evans
Pitlick
Pezzetta
Ylonen
Wideman

Prospects to maybe move on from if an opportunity arises:
Mysak
Norlinder

I agree with over 90% of this list but I would move Xhekaj into the top group and I would move Dvorak up one tier as well. I also don't think that they want to move Pezzetta as he is cheap and fills a role that they need. Ylonen is also likely a tier higher but is not far from being in the bottom tier if he starts poorly imo.

Solid list imo for the most part. Not that I am the final judge on the matter lol.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I agree with over 90% of this list but I would move Xhekaj into the top group and I would move Dvorak up one tier as well. I also don't think that they want to move Pezzetta as he is cheap and fills a role that they need. Ylonen is also likely a tier higher but is not far from being in the bottom tier if he starts poorly imo.

Solid list imo for the most part. Not that I am the final judge on the matter lol.

Sure, Xhekaj could be shifted from first in the secnod group to the bottom end of the top group. Dvorak could be moved to the fair value group, but his fair value may be near the bottom of that group.

Ylonen can DEFINITELY be a throw-in to make a trade work. He will likely never be an impact player that should hold up our getting a guy for our core or near-core.

I don't find Pezzetta brings that much but am willing to give him a season while we start trying to compete more, to see if he can contribute meaningfully. The problem is we don't have new prospects of his style. Maybe we move him to the top part of his group meaning more that he could be part of a package rather than being moved just to add by subtracting.

 

[26Mats]

Of course we can but Hughes doesn't want to do that because Montreal is a very difficult sell to UFA's and he is investing in developing Montreal into a more appealing destination. Playing hardball with players that are putting in an honest effort just doesn't make sense for Hughes at this point in his path to bring his vision for the organization to fruition.

I think these boards are too removed from reality at times to fully consider the full scope of ramifications and benefits to some of these moves.

I think these boards, or many individuals on these boards, don't know the difference between reality and their opinion. People can have different opinions on the costs and benefits of these moves - including different opinions than Hughes, such as the Jake Allen contract.

 

[BLONG7]

I think these boards, or many individuals on these boards, don't know the difference between reality and their opinion. People can have different opinions on the costs and benefits of these moves - including different opinions than Hughes, such as the Jake Allen contract.

The Allen contract for me, is the only big question for Hughes.............it made zero sense to give him 3.8M when, he did not have to.....

Other than that, zero complaints from me with HuGo..........they have a solid plan, and are executing it...the gong show of the previous years, has moved to LA....

 

[26Mats]

The Allen contract for me, is the only big question for Hughes.............it made zero sense to give him 3.8M when, he did not have to.....

Other than that, zero complaints from me with HuGo..........they have a solid plan, and are executing it...the gong show of the previous years, has moved to LA....

I love HuGo.

I'm not sure they need to be giving the vets so much ice time instead of buying them out/sending them to Laval. I'm also not sure about playing Slaf in the NHL last year. But we'll see how things work out...

 

[JC Superstar]

Hate to be the Grinch here, but the Habs have no cap space whatsoever. Every team needs to be cap compliant on opening day and as I write this, they have a 3.5M overdraft.

Now if you use a player LTIR to comply on season opening, you can't use it later. If the Habs use Price LTIR to erase the 3.5M overdraft, that's it, it's gone, no 8.8M.

What's more, if you are cap space compliant with LTIR, all bonuses count against next year cap space so not only do the Habs loose Price's treasure chest but take a dip into red ink for the following season.

Of course the Habs could get rid of Hoffman one way or the other and be cap compliant and Santa Claus is a great guy. That way, barring injuries, you could pay most of the bonuses and clean next year cap space

A way to get out of this catch-22 would be to put let's say Dvorak on LTIR, use it for compliance and save Price's whole 10.5M LTIR during the season. An other way would be to get Mantha, bring the overdraft in the 10M zone and use close to all Price's LTIR at once.

Of course, the LTIR solutions bring bonuses to next year but the Habs already have 1.3M this year in overdraft bonuses so it won't be a rise next year. And as Alzner and Edmunston will be written off the books there will be 2.6M to absorb other bonuses.

 

[BLONG7]

Hate to be the Grinch here, but the Habs have no cap space whatsoever. Every team needs to be cap compliant on opening day and as I write this, they have a 3.5M overdraft.

Now if you use a player LTIR to comply on season opening, you can't use it later. If the Habs use Price LTIR to erase the 3.5M overdraft, that's it, it's gone, no 8.8M.

What's more, if you are cap space compliant with LTIR, all bonuses count against next year cap space so not only do the Habs loose Price's treasure chest but take a dip into red ink for the following season.

Of course the Habs could get rid of Hoffman one way or the other and be cap compliant and Santa Claus is a great guy. That way, barring injuries, you could pay most of the bonuses and clean next year cap space

A way to get out of this catch-22 would be to put let's say Dvorak on LTIR, use it for compliance and save Price's whole 10.5M LTIR during the season. An other way would be to get Mantha, bring the overdraft in the 10M zone and use close to all Price's LTIR at once.

Of course, the LTIR solutions bring bonuses to next year but the Habs already have 1.3M this year in overdraft bonuses so it won't be a rise next year. And as Alzner and Edmunston will be written off the books there will be 2.6M to absorb other bonuses.

Yes, I have read he wants to be cap compliant, to use the 10.5M during the season.....
Some of our driftwood needs to be burnt at a summer campfire.....Armia and Hoff would be nice.

 

[Scotianhab]

Keep thinking Chi could use Hoffman as secondary scoring option. Gives help to Bedard on the PP. does Chi need a 4th line pker as well? Armia perhaps. Allen would be a good goalie for them as well. Damn I wish they’d take all of our junk.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I love HuGo.

I'm not sure they need to be giving the vets so much ice time instead of buying them out/sending them to Laval. I'm also not sure about playing Slaf in the NHL last year. But we'll see how things work out...

Ice-time is down to MSL and his team, not HuGo.

And are they? Savard and Matheson get ice-time, but mostly because Matheson is Montreal's best D-man and Savard was their only real RD.

But for forwards, Anderson is the only vet in the top-5 of 5v5 ice-time per game. The other 4 were Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and RHP.

 

[Simarino]

I understand the negative perception but it's not far off from the price we paid for Dach. Unless you think the Habs have historic injuries and finish bottom 5 again? And you think we find someone better with that 2024 1st?

I'm assuming because we have Dach and we made the trade where he performed fairly well for us, you will say Dach >>>> Lafreniere?

Comes down to this...

Romanov for 13th
vs
Dach (before last season)
vs
Lafreniere
vs
Habs 2024 1st (anywhere in the 5-16 range)


I think they would but looking at the expiring guys who will be UFA after next season, I'm not sure that circumstance is there. Who's in cap trouble that has a Marleau or Monahan? Do you or anybody else have any names I can't think about?

The Monahan/1st and Marleau/1st just does not happen that often.

Chicago gave away a very good young player in Tuevo Terevainen to get rid of Bryan Bickell’s contract.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Chicago gave away a very good young player in Tuevo Terevainen to get rid of Bryan Bickell’s contract.

What's your point? My point is it's circumstantial and it don't happen all the time.

Keep thinking Chi could use Hoffman as secondary scoring option. Gives help to Bedard on the PP. does Chi need a 4th line pker as well? Armia perhaps. Allen would be a good goalie for them as well. Damn I wish they’d take all of our junk.

No doubt, the Hawks would take it on but it's about leverage. If the situation was reversed, we would be asking for assets to take on the contract in a flat cap where cap space is very valuable.

 

[CHfan1]

Hate to be the Grinch here, but the Habs have no cap space whatsoever. Every team needs to be cap compliant on opening day and as I write this, they have a 3.5M overdraft.

Now if you use a player LTIR to comply on season opening, you can't use it later. If the Habs use Price LTIR to erase the 3.5M overdraft, that's it, it's gone, no 8.8M.

What's more, if you are cap space compliant with LTIR, all bonuses count against next year cap space so not only do the Habs loose Price's treasure chest but take a dip into red ink for the following season.

Of course the Habs could get rid of Hoffman one way or the other and be cap compliant and Santa Claus is a great guy. That way, barring injuries, you could pay most of the bonuses and clean next year cap space

A way to get out of this catch-22 would be to put let's say Dvorak on LTIR, use it for compliance and save Price's whole 10.5M LTIR during the season. An other way would be to get Mantha, bring the overdraft in the 10M zone and use close to all Price's LTIR at once.

Of course, the LTIR solutions bring bonuses to next year but the Habs already have 1.3M this year in overdraft bonuses so it won't be a rise next year. And as Alzner and Edmunston will be written off the books there will be 2.6M to absorb other bonuses.

The Habs can get under the cap before putting Price on LTIR. Right now the Habs are $3.5 million over with 25 players on the roster. 2 players have to get sent to Laval to meet the maximum roster size of 23. They can then send 2 more down (as paper transactions to get under the cap limit).

If they put Wideman and Pitlick on waivers that’s $1,862,500 in cap space.

They can then send down Xhekaj and Guhle as paper transactions before putting Price on LTIR. That leaves them $45,000 (I believe) below the $83.5 million cap limit. They did this last year with Xhekaj before putting Byron on LTIR. That’s with Ylonen and Primeau in Laval as well.

As a note players like RHP can be sent down instead of Guhle (as Guhle has performance bonuses and RHP does not).

 

[26Mats]

Ice-time is down to MSL and his team, not HuGo.

And are they? Savard and Matheson get ice-time, but mostly because Matheson is Montreal's best D-man and Savard was their only real RD.

But for forwards, Anderson is the only vet in the top-5 of 5v5 ice-time per game. The other 4 were Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and RHP.

Hughes chooses who's in Montreal versus who's in Laval or bought out...

I'm not talking about top ice time in every case. In some cases I'm talking about who gets in the lineup versus who's in the press box or who's in Laval or bought out.

If Hughes hadn't traded Edmundson, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten more ice time at the expense of a young player than if he wasn't traded. Which is why Hughes traded him. I would advocate doing the same with one or two vet forwards - i.e. removing them from the equation.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Hughes chooses who's in Montreal versus who's in Laval or bought out...

I'm not talking about top ice time in every case. In some cases I'm talking about who gets in the lineup versus who's in the press box or who's in Laval or bought out.

If Hughes hadn't traded Edmundson, I'm pretty sure he would have gotten more ice time at the expense of a young player than if he wasn't traded. Which is why Hughes traded him. I would advocate doing the same with one or two vet forwards - i.e. removing them from the equation.

...he did trade Edmundson though.

And I'm not sure why it matters. Montreal's:

1) finally getting positive contributions from guys coming from the AHL.

2) isn't playing veterans that much.

3) isn't really choosing veterans over young guys.

Maybe if the coaching staff was playing veterans ahead of young guys because of seniority instead of ability, but just giving young guys responsibility as a means of development doesn't really work. It feels like complaining about the one thing that isn't an issue with this team TBH.

 

[WeThreeKings]

...he did trade Edmundson though.

And I'm not sure why it matters. Montreal's:

1) finally getting positive contributions from guys coming from the AHL.

2) isn't playing veterans that much.

3) isn't really choosing veterans over young guys.

Maybe if the coaching staff was playing veterans ahead of young guys because of seniority instead of ability, but just giving young guys responsibility as a means of development doesn't really work. It feels like complaining about the one thing that isn't an issue with this team TBH.

I think people think we can just wave a magic wand and force teams to want to acquire Armia or Hoffman.

They are hard to move and we'll get rid of them when we can.

But they aren't just going to waive veterans in the room, it doesn't save much cap space, and it doesn't really do anything for their value and it may upset some people in the room.

It will only become an issue when it's Hoffman vs. losing Ylonen on waivers.

 

[26Mats]

...he did trade Edmundson though.

And I'm not sure why it matters. Montreal's:

1) finally getting positive contributions from guys coming from the AHL.

2) isn't playing veterans that much.

3) isn't really choosing veterans over young guys.

Maybe if the coaching staff was playing veterans ahead of young guys because of seniority instead of ability, but just giving young guys responsibility as a means of development doesn't really work. It feels like complaining about the one thing that isn't an issue with this team TBH.

We'll see what happens this year with Ylonen and RHP this year. Last year I was advocating seeing them much sooner.

One thing is for sure, Hoffman will not be here next year and Armia will not be here in two years when we're trying to compete. I don't like the idea of them even playing ahead of guys like Pezetta. Young players need to grow into their role with playing time. Pezetta has shown enough to grow into a 4th line role. Same with Ylonen. With RHP it's a top 9 role.

 

[1909]

The Allen contract for me, is the only big question for Hughes.............it made zero sense to give him 3.8M when, he did not have to.....

Other than that, zero complaints from me with HuGo..........they have a solid plan, and are executing it...the gong show of the previous years, has moved to LA....

Yes and no. Hughes did not know that Montambeault would raise his game so much last season. If Monty is #1 this season, the Allen's contract looks pretty bad for a backup.

 

[BLONG7]

I think people think we can just wave a magic wand and force teams to want to acquire Armia or Hoffman.

They are hard to move and we'll get rid of them when we can.

But they aren't just going to waive veterans in the room, it doesn't save much cap space, and it doesn't really do anything for their value and it may upset some people in the room.

It will only become an issue when it's Hoffman vs. losing Ylonen on waivers.

It certainly tells us that the old GM had zero idea on how to handle contracts, and the cap.
Brutal..................and we wont even bring the worst contract we have in Gallagher......wow. Thx MB you idiot.

 

[Captain Mountain]

We'll see what happens this year with Ylonen and RHP this year. Last year I was advocating seeing them much sooner.

One thing is for sure, Hoffman will not be here next year and Armia will not be here in two years when we're trying to compete. I don't like the idea of them even playing ahead of guys like Pezetta. Young players need to grow into their role with playing time. Pezetta has shown enough to grow into a 4th line role. Same with Ylonen. With RHP it's a top 9 role.

I'm not sure why you advocating them being called up much sooner means they should have been called up much sooner. We know that they were good when called up, but there's zero reason we should infer that that means they should have been called up sooner.

I also don't really get why it matters that Hoffman and Armia would be playing ahead of guys like Pezzetta. Beyond injuries or the fact that we have gone through a decade of just sticking players in positions hoping they'd grow into it (despite it almost never working), NHL rosters generally turn over A LOT season to season. It is not a negative if guys are given time to work on the game. If young guys actually demonstrate they deserve the ice time, MSL has consistently shown he'll give them more ice time.

Seems like a non-issue.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes and no. Hughes did not know that Montambeault would raise his game so much last season. If Monty is #1 this season, the Allen's contract looks pretty bad for a backup.

Ah whatever. $4.9M for two goalies this season, maybe $6.9 for one year and then Allen comes off the books.