Salary Cap: What to do with Matt Murray (poll)

[Honour Over Glory]

Hard to say that Lehner outplayed Murray last playoffs. Simple - the islanders outplayed the Pens. Lehner was facing perimeter shots and Murray was facing odd-man rush after odd-man rush. Murray was normal to good last playoffs but the Pens played terribly.

This year is much different story tho. Pens were playing solid defensive hockey in front of him and he was just finding ways to lose them games or just finding ways to suck. There is no argument to defend his play this season other than a sample size. Jarry is excellent but a big part of his league leading stats is the team in front of him. And it is the same team behind whom Matt Murray found a way to royally suck.

Having a save percentage under 90% behind this team is absolutely brutal.

Except Murray has faced 26.7 shots per game, Jarry has faced 28.8 shots per game.

Pens were sheltering Murray as usual, given his career average for shots against, Jarry has faced more shots and is continuing to out play him by a disgusting margin, like one is playing NHL caliber hockey, the other is playing ECHL level.

 

[EightyOne]

The same way Darcy Kuemper isn't one in Arizona. Some very good goalies take time to get to where they are. Not everyone Jim Carrey's out to start their career. Murray hasn't been trending the right way since the 2nd cup. He's consistently had inconsistent starts and usually by November/December, he turns it around. This time, he isn't.

I would offer him a 2yr deal at a slight raise, otherwise, enjoy Seattle narrow head.

I was just making an observation, that, not only is Jarry putting up better numbers, it is behind the SAME defense that Murray is getting.

Murray put up some real good numbers early on, better than MAF, but the defense was for sure playing better/more confident in front of Murray than MAF at the same time.

It is almost bordering on that Murray needs an above average team defense in front of him to look good. That maybe it isn't about his own ability as much. Maybe?

Re: the bolded....
there were a few posters who were noticing this as it happened, even DURING the second cup run, but it was glossed over because the overall team was still finding success.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I was just making an observation, that, not only is Jarry putting up better numbers, it is behind the SAME defense that Murray is getting.

Murray put up some real good numbers early on, better than MAF, but the defense was for sure playing better/more confident in front of Murray than MAF at the same time.

It is almost bordering on that Murray needs an above average team defense in front of him to look good. That maybe it isn't about his own ability as much. Maybe?

Re: the bolded....
there were a few posters who were noticing this as it happened, even DURING the second cup run, but it was glossed over because the overall team was still finding success.

I remember those posters and I didn't ignore or dissuade that talk, more so just watched and made note of it and then forgot until you mentioned it just now. I think it was vs the Tampa Bay Lightning?

Murray had one of the best teams in front of him in the 2 cups, we all knew it was unsustainable but yeah, then the last 2yrs, yeah the defense wasn't that great, but he still faced similar number of shots he normally did, a few more high danger ones, but an elite goalie should be able to handle that, he couldn't consistently.

Now behind a much better and improved defense, the guy flat out stinks. People seem to want to defend him based on the 2 cups and his father passing, which I get, I don't hate Murray as a person, but his game has been trending down for a while. Maybe not as drastic as this year, but it was going there.

It's ironic to me, last year he got 2 games, wasn't good, he wasn't nearly as bad as Murray is this year, but he went to WBS with the right attitude and continued to work on his game even with tons of trade rumors circling him and that he had no value around the league. He wins the spot of back-up out of camp, people are pissed because they liked CDS more and he still just continues to build on his camp. He's a battler, I don't see Jarry suddenly turning to crap at all. IF anything, we're now seeing hte rise of a true legit #1 goalie in this league and a lot of GM's that were in need of a goalie that low balled JR for Jarry, are probably kicking themselves.

 

[EightyOne]

I would prefer to not have any goalie controversy. And just have Murray be a god****ed rock back there. f***ing stifling everything.

But, personal tragedy, injury history, outside pressure. These are all real issues. He is a human. And there have been other goalies that have fallen from their high pedestal in the same amount of time in the league.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that he is broken.

Is Jarry the savior? I am not sold on that. He certainly is NOW. And the Pens have to be a NOW team. What works this week, month, year? They can't f*** around for seasons trying to get guys in better situations...Geno and Sid are not here long enough to piss away half a decade anymore.

This mentality needs to not just be on the goalie, but the entire roster. There is no time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I would prefer to not have any goalie controversy. And just have Murray be a god****ed rock back there. ****ing stifling everything.

But, personal tragedy, injury history, outside pressure. These are all real issues. He is a human. And there have been other goalies that have fallen from their high pedestal in the same amount of time in the league.

It is not out of the realm of possibility that he is broken.

Is Jarry the savior? I am not sold on that. He certainly is NOW. And the Pens have to be a NOW team. What works this week, month, year? They can't **** around for seasons trying to get guys in better situations...Geno and Sid are not here long enough to piss away half a decade anymore.

This mentality needs to not just be on the goalie, but the entire roster. There is no time.

Tragedy is the tough part, we all have lost or will lose someone and it's tough based on your relationship with them. It's been 2yrs now, there's been a few others around the league that have also lost a parent and it's always sad to hear about it and see how they're going through it.

But with that aside, Jarry also had to deal with not getting a chance to play his way out of 2 bad showings last year and trade rumors all summer and in camp as well as a well noted rumbling about how his value was nothing and etc.

Yet, here we are.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Don't think many at all expect Jarry to keep this up, but he's playing so far beyond league average right now that it would take alot for him to reach that point. Even if his sv% we're to drop by 0.02, which is rather significant, he'd still be a very good starter.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Don't think many at all expect Jarry to keep this up, but he's playing so far beyond league average right now that it would take alot for him to reach that point. Even if his sv% we're to drop by 0.02, which is rather significant, he'd still be a very good starter.

 

[Khelandros]

It is almost bordering on that Murray needs an above average team defense in front of him to look good. That maybe it isn't about his own ability as much. Maybe?

This season is disproving this point. He has that defensive team yet is till shitting the bed.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Last season you could make an excuse for Murray that the defense was not that great (to start off), still in mourning, then the injury, etc, etc.
Even though DeSmith came in and was pretty darn good with that same team in front of him.

Fast forward another season, not injured (that we know of), defensively this team is as responsible as ever under Sullivan. Also throw in that with the same defense Jarry is leading the league, and Murray can't even crack the top 31.

still no reason to rush to a decision. let the season play out. Murray is really 3rd on our depth chart but because of waivers that can't be an actuality. In some ways i wonder if a "conditioning" stint in the AHL would help him or not.

If Jarry is still the starter at the end of the season we should jettison Murray if he wants anything other then a 1 or 2 year prove it deal. If we are not comfortable with Jarry/DeSmith then get a Vet backup, though I think between Jarry and DeSmith we probably would be fine (assuming Jarry finished out strong)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Comments like "Murray is really 3rd on our depth chart" make me really wonder why I bother having debates about Murray with people who are living in a fantasy land.

I'm not saying that all of the "Jarry for starter" supporters do this, but god damn, quite a few people just make stuff up to go after Murray. Like it's just sad, people distort reality to attack the starting goalie of your favorite team just because you like someone more than him.

 

[Flying Dego]

Everyone's gonna view this situation differently and I hope all have the best interest at heart for the team. Unfortunately I think there are those that are so immersed that it has to be one goalie or other other regardless of best outcome for the team.

Jarry should pass the eye test as a starter for any avid hockey fan watching. In comparison watching DeSmith last year, I think it was more clear that he's a good backup but got hot for a stretch. Not as mechanically good as the other options here.

We are at the point where I'm sure Murray still believes he's the man and Jarry is just getting his hot run. If that continues all year I don't see how people expect Murray to be cool with a tandem next year. He surely believes he's the guy and if the coach isn't agreeable is he gonna be happy just to help the team? Seems like a stretch. Murray wants paid big money and who can blame him, splitting time and potentially being outplayed is not good for himself financially. I would expect he'd ask for a trade to be a starter elsewhere if this continues.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Everyone's gonna view this situation differently and I hope all have the best interest at heart for the team. Unfortunately I think there are those that are so immersed that it has to be one goalie or other other regardless of best outcome for the team.

Jarry should pass the eye test as a starter for any avid hockey fan watching. In comparison watching DeSmith last year, I think it was more clear that he's a good backup but got hot for a stretch. Not as mechanically good as the other options here.

We are at the point where I'm sure Murray still believes he's the man and Jarry is just getting his hot run. If that continues all year I don't see how people expect Murray to be cool with a tandem next year. He surely believes he's the guy and if the coach isn't agreeable is he gonna be happy just to help the team? Seems like a stretch. Murray wants paid big money and who can blame him, splitting time and potentially being outplayed is not good for himself financially. I would expect he'd ask for a trade to be a starter elsewhere if this continues.

This is all speculation based on nothing except your disdain for Murray.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why don't we stick to actual facts for this discussion, instead of just making stuff up, passing off your speculation as fact, making crazy exaggerated statements or coming up with fantasy scenarios to support your opinion? I feel like it's very easy to have discussions about the goaltending without doing those things.

There is merit to the question for what they should do with Murray and whether they should make Jarry the starter. You don't need to make stuff up to tear down Murray to discuss this.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Murray will probably rebound. He was really rough before New Year last season too.

I just don't want to commit anything more than a 1 year deal to the guy this summer if this keeps up throughout the rest of the season. He and his camp probably won't accept it, because why would they? Dude's been up and down since the 2nd of back to back Cups with injury as well as inconsistency.

Again, I'm not sure Jarry's as good as we've been seeing lately, but I do think he's no worse an option than Murray when they're at their average, and Jarry can play the puck to boot. Murray's going to need an exceptional rest of the season in order for me to feel comfortable with the team signing him for several years. If he continues to struggle and/or won't accept a short-term "prove it" deal, shop him. Goalies don't fetch a ton, but he's young and has a resume that some team will pony up for. We may not get a haul, but if we could land a LW or LD who would be a good fit (and young enough to be around for a while), I'd pull the trigger based on the situation at this very moment. Could change from now until June, for sure, but right now? I'd be perfectly fine going with Jarry as the starter going forward and trading Murray.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Comments like "Murray is really 3rd on our depth chart" make me really wonder why I bother having debates about Murray with people who are living in a fantasy land.

I'm not saying that all of the "Jarry for starter" supporters do this, but god damn, quite a few people just make stuff up to go after Murray. Like it's just sad, people distort reality to attack the starting goalie of your favorite team just because you like someone more than him.

the comment of "3rd on our depth chart" is not a permanent statement. it's indicative of the *right now* level of play of our three goalies.
I could be wrong there because I haven't seen much of DeSmith in a while and my assessment of him for the big club might be a bit stale. So I'm basing that on Murray's level of play versus the last time DeSmith was starting for the big club.

But your statement "...distort reality to attack the starting goalie..." who is in fantasy land now? Are you saying that in the *right now* that Murray is the penguins starting goalie (aka #1 goalie). if so I think you might want to re-assess who is on fantasy island...

but as I said we should wait to make any long term decision. Let's see who is the starting goalie at the end of the season, implying that who is #1 could in fact change. or perhaps you like to just pick the parts of my post you want to pick at and ignore the rest. Oh and for the record I'm happy to debate goal tending all day, heck I'll even admit when I'm wrong. would you?

I await your debate points on why Murray is still our #1 goalie in the present tense.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

still no reason to rush to a decision. let the season play out. Murray is really 3rd on our depth chart but because of waivers that can't be an actuality. In some ways i wonder if a "conditioning" stint in the AHL would help him or not.

If Jarry is still the starter at the end of the season we should jettison Murray if he wants anything other then a 1 or 2 year prove it deal. If we are not comfortable with Jarry/DeSmith then get a Vet backup, though I think between Jarry and DeSmith we probably would be fine (assuming Jarry finished out strong)

Yep, no agenda here.

 

[Flying Dego]

This is all speculation based on nothing except your disdain for Murray.

Yep I loathe him. Keeps me up at night.

It's all good, we will see how the year plays out. I think it's being missed that I assume Murray will be a starter in the league. I am not one to view him as highly as others which is fine, we all watch for the Pens to win. I am a big proponent of cheap young talent that helps our roster. Murray has shown red flags and I'm not wanting to commit to him at a position that is so volatile.

I also am going on a limb saying he'd be disinterested in a potential tandem...which shouldn't be that shocking. Especially for those that think he's a top 5 goalie in the league. Put yourself in his shoes. You are a Stanley cup winner who's thinks you're one of the best. Are you cool with a coach under utilizing you and essentially taking money away from you? Or do you tell your agent let's look for a different situation that wants to play/pay me now.

That's fine if you want to beat the drum saying he'll take the reigns back this year and Jarry will suck. But isn't future possibilities the point of a message board? It's boring if we all see it eye to eye anyways. Just don't get too worked up about it.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Yep I loathe him. Keeps me up at night.

It's all good, we will see how the year plays out. I think it's being missed that I assume Murray will be a starter in the league. I am not one to view him as highly as others which is fine, we all watch for the Pens to win. I am a big proponent of cheap young talent that helps our roster. Murray has shown red flags and I'm not wanting to commit to him at a position that is so volatile.

I also am going on a limb saying he'd be disinterested in a potential tandem...which shouldn't be that shocking. Especially for those that think he's a top 5 goalie in the league. Put yourself in his shoes. You are a Stanley cup winner who's thinks you're one of the best. Are you cool with a coach under utilizing you and essentially taking money away from you? Or do you tell your agent let's look for a different situation that wants to play/pay me now.

That's fine if you want to beat the drum saying he'll take the reigns back this year and Jarry will suck. But isn't future possibilities the point of a message board? It's boring if we all see it eye to eye anyways. Just don't get too worked up about it.

I didn't say any of this in my reply to you. I just said that you don't know Murray's inner thoughts, so your assumptions about them aren't rooted in anything concrete. The rest of your post, though, has done little to make me think you don't simply dislike Murray, which is fine--that's your right--but it doesn't make you an authority on anything.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Comments like "Murray is really 3rd on our depth chart" make me really wonder why I bother having debates about Murray with people who are living in a fantasy land.

I'm not saying that all of the "Jarry for starter" supporters do this, but god damn, quite a few people just make stuff up to go after Murray. Like it's just sad, people distort reality to attack the starting goalie of your favorite team just because you like someone more than him.

Yeah I don't like the made up stuff either. But I do like facts and the facts are not good in Murray's court.

 

[LOGiK]

Murray will probably rebound. He was really rough before New Year last season too.

I just don't want to commit anything more than a 1 year deal to the guy this summer if this keeps up throughout the rest of the season. He and his camp probably won't accept it, because why would they? Dude's been up and down since the 2nd of back to back Cups with injury as well as inconsistency.

Again, I'm not sure Jarry's as good as we've been seeing lately, but I do think he's no worse an option than Murray when they're at their average, and Jarry can play the puck to boot. Murray's going to need an exceptional rest of the season in order for me to feel comfortable with the team signing him for several years. If he continues to struggle and/or won't accept a short-term "prove it" deal, shop him. Goalies don't fetch a ton, but he's young and has a resume that some team will pony up for. We may not get a haul, but if we could land a LW or LD who would be a good fit (and young enough to be around for a while), I'd pull the trigger based on the situation at this very moment. Could change from now until June, for sure, but right now? I'd be perfectly fine going with Jarry as the starter going forward and trading Murray.

From his last 3 seasons, well let's say 2 not counting this season or 16-17 when he only played 1 NHL game:
His GAA is kind of high, but the team was pretty damn rough the last two seasons and his starts were probably not setup for success. Also his save % is in the high 800's and one was a .908.

Just going to look at his career NHL stats would be faster than me typing it out:

Tristan Jarry Stats and News

 

[Flying Dego]

I didn't say any of this in my reply to you. I just said that you don't know Murray's inner thoughts, so your assumptions about them aren't rooted in anything concrete. The rest of your post, though, has done little to make me think you don't simply dislike Murray, which is fine--that's your right--but it doesn't make you an authority on anything.

Never said I was an authority on the matter. I think everyone has their minds made up about the situation with little movement. We shall see how the story goes through the year and into the off-season. Lots can change or stay the same. I don't know Murray's thoughts but no reason to be naive that a player isn't looking out for their best interest...as they should. I'll leave my speculation on this as it seems to bother people.

Whatever the outcome I hope the Penguins win and the how/who matters much less to me. I see the Jarry situation as a potential to boost our chances. Simply put. If it doesn't materialize, o well.

I believe Murray will play better and again I'm sure he'll have a career as an average-above average starter. Is that offensive? I don't see him settling into a top goaltender, that doesn't mean he can't have his moments like every other goalie. The cap situation favors Jarry, that's my take.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Is Murray starting today? Let's see how he holds up.

 

[Khelandros]

Is Murray starting today? Let's see how he holds up.

No. Jarry is. Penguins win.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

No. Jarry is. Penguins win.

Hey Khelandros, maybe Jarry will play really well tonight and then in two years, when he's going through a slump, you can pretend that you never thought he was good and that his stats for this game were actually terrible. And then you can ignore all the posts telling you that Jarry's numbers were actually good and just keep repeating the same lie over and over.

 

[Khelandros]

Hey Khelandros, maybe Jarry will play really well tonight and then in two years, when he's going through a slump, you can pretend that you never thought he was good and that his stats for this game were actually terrible. And then you can ignore all the posts telling you that Jarry's numbers were actually good and just keep repeating the same lie over and over.

If he's going through a slump and there is a better goalie behind him, no issues trading him away. You don't get attached to players. If you do you end up like LA, Chicago and Detroit.