Salary Cap: What to do with Matt Murray (poll)

[heysmilinstrange]

21 games sub 90% is not a blip...

Check his splits, he put up a 2.20/9.23 in October. It's a bad November dragging down his save percentage.

 

[Hobodrifter]

None of this matters if Murray doesn't improve his play this season when he gets the chance. Certainly possible for him to do that. If he doesn't then I'd imagine he isn't going to be a Penguin next season. Ownership and GMJR are highly unlikely to spend money on MM as a backup when they can spend that money elsewhere for the closing window this team has to win.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

If Sullivan has no problem dumping highly touted draft picks for reclamation projects that are playing better, you bet your ass he will have no problem making Murray the backup and riding Jarry for as long as he can. That is what coaching is about. Who ****ing cares about 2 Cups 4 years ago.

You have entered Charlie Day levels of hysteria with your defense of Murray. He is terrible this year. He was terrible last year. He was average during his supposed "hot" period last year when he came back from injury. He is and always has been an average NHL goalie, that got hot at the right time to win 2 cups, 4 YEARS AGO.

You keep repeating this, but it's still not accurate. .925/2.49 from December 31st until the end of last season is far from average and you just have to accept it.

 

[Flying Dego]

You are aware that those are completely different things, right? I'm positive you can read.

Like how do you think those things contradict each other? One group being talked about is a group of prospects. The other one is a 2x cup winning goalie who has been their starting goalie for the last 2 seasons (at bear minimum). Like that's just a stupid comparison, to even imply that "Sullivan doesn't cater to top prospects" contradicts "Sullivan won't make his 2x cup winning starting goalie less than a platoon goalie" is just asininely stupid.



And if he pushes hard for term, he'll be taken to arbitration and get a 1-2 year deal at about $4-$5 million. His camp can push for term all they want, but as soon as the Penguins elect for salary arbitration, Murray is locked into a short term deal. If Murray actually wants to get a semi-long term deal done, him playing hardball is the worst way to do that.

Murray doesn't have a strong case in contract negotiations right now, so again, I have no idea why people are making his potential extension an issue with Murray right now. If he stinks, he's not going to push for a super expensive deal because he doesn't have the leverage to do so.

I'm exhausted thinking about this scenario TBH. Regardless of the outcome this year MM will push for his term and we will go through arbitration like you said...but this will cause a rift, I am sure MM expects to be the starter and I doubt he's cool riding shotgun if Jarry outplays him.

A tandem will work through this year but come next year? I worry about the locker room having issues if Murray is unhappy. We shall see...it's better to have these options than to have all goalies struggling right now. Maybe MM is the ultimate team player and cool just to be here but I highly doubt it. All goalies carry an ego and his should be quite inflated after winning 2 cups to start his career.

Again this could all be for nothing if some people get their wish and Jarry slides and Murray picks up enough to take back his starting job. I don't want this to happen as it's worse for us cap wise. I don't want Murray having any leverage on JR for a long term deal that can bite us.

 

[Pancakes]

It is a difficult situation. I think I'd lean towards locking Murray up long term and hoping he finds his game again but with Jarry's emergence you do have to consider the possibility of moving on from MM.

The thing is, MM wouldn't get much in a trade I don't think. Goalies don't generate that kind of interest, and certainly not goalies who have lost their job. So if you move him now at his lowest point value-wise you're probably not getting a haul. You might not even if he were playing well. But if you let him go easily or for not much and he becomes the goalie he used to be and/or Jarry's play slips, then you've screwed yourself.

It's a long season though and I suspect at some point Jarry will stumble and Murray will get hot and regain the net for a while because that's how these things usually go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Sullivan has no problem dumping highly touted draft picks for reclamation projects that are playing better, you bet your ass he will have no problem making Murray the backup and riding Jarry for as long as he can. That is what coaching is about. Who ****ing cares about 2 Cups 4 years ago.

You have entered Charlie Day levels of hysteria with your defense of Murray. He is terrible this year. He was terrible last year. He was average during his supposed "hot" period last year when he came back from injury. He is and always has been an average NHL goalie, that got hot at the right time to win 2 cups, 4 YEARS AGO.

Apparently I'm at "Charlie Day levels of hysteria" defending Murray, but you're completely rational by saying that Murray was "terrible" last year and was only "average" on his run where he had a .930 save% over a span of half a season. Gotcha.

Go to the Vegas board and go cheer for Fleury, your opinions would be more welcome there.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

The NHL isn't like the maffia where you pay your dues and get paid later on. What Matt Murray did 3 years ago should have no impact on his future contract.
.

This is not true. Professional contracts (and employment in general) are a combination of what you did AND what your potential is.

Like it or lump it, GMs/coaches value Cup winning considerably. Even if you played a minor role in helping achieve the championship it weighs heavily in the players favor. Think of all the comments when GM's acquire a guy: "he's been part of a winning team and culture and we hope he'll bring it here"

 

[Will Hunting]

Everybody should be rooting for Jarry now. Such a cool story. He is not only saving our season but he is also saving big dollars for this organization. Because right now there is no way that MM can ask for the same thing as he would 2 months ago. Sample size might be small but it critically matters right now for MM. Saying that MM is a good goalie but he is just in a small slump and Jarry is also a good goalie but he is just on a stupid hot streak might be reasonable but it still matters a lot for Murrays next contract. He is losing big money now.. no matter the sample size. We should all be happy with this instead of this drama filled discussion.

 

[Will Hunting]

Also.. sample size or not.. Murray was soo bad lately that if not for Jarry i would bet huge money that this team would be out of playoff spot if Murray was playing all these games. He used to bounce back after bad games before.. but not really this year. Things were getting brutally out of control for Murray and Jarry saved us in a spectacular way and is now leading the league in multiple categories. Saying that Sullivan is just riding the hot hand is an understatement. i mean.. maybe he is.. but there is a big context to it and it took a lot for this to happen. Sullivan should have switched their roles sooner tbh. But Murray was such a clear starter to begin that he got to play some games that he didnt deserve to play. He got some benefit of doubt from Sullivan but he failed miserably in those and Jarry took full opportunity and more and more and more. His position is pretty firm now and he fully deserves it.

 

[Andy99]

I'm exhausted thinking about this scenario TBH. Regardless of the outcome this year MM will push for his term and we will go through arbitration like you said...but this will cause a rift, I am sure MM expects to be the starter and I doubt he's cool riding shotgun if Jarry outplays him.

A tandem will work through this year but come next year? I worry about the locker room having issues if Murray is unhappy. We shall see...it's better to have these options than to have all goalies struggling right now. Maybe MM is the ultimate team player and cool just to be here but I highly doubt it. All goalies carry an ego and his should be quite inflated after winning 2 cups to start his career.

Again this could all be for nothing if some people get their wish and Jarry slides and Murray picks up enough to take back his starting job. I don't want this to happen as it's worse for us cap wise. I don't want Murray having any leverage on JR for a long term deal that can bite us.

If Murray has a poor season, he will not push for term...he will take a one year deal like Schultz did to see if he can improve his options...if he regains his play and wins us another Cup, he’ll look to take us to the cleaners...but that’s a good decision to have...

 

[Louis Hensler]

Everybody should be rooting for Jarry now. Such a cool story. He is not only saving our season but he is also saving big dollars for this organization. Because right now there is no way that MM can ask for the same thing as he would 2 months ago. Sample size might be small but it critically matters right now for MM. Saying that MM is a good goalie but he is just in a small slump and Jarry is also a good goalie but he is just on a stupid hot streak might be reasonable but it still matters a lot for Murrays next contract. He is losing big money now.. no matter the sample size. We should all be happy with this instead of this drama filled discussion.

Sample size gets bigger every day. The fact at this point is that the job is Jarry's to lose. If he keeps playing like this, Murray is gone because I don't see him signing on as Jarry's backup. Realistically, Jarry can't continue to play like this indefinitely. If he did, we'd be talking Vezina. So what happens when Jarry has consecutive down games? Things are very interesting right now. Murray got the job in the first place because Sully wasn't afraid to shelve the veteran for the new guy with the hot hand. I assume that's the way he'll go the rest of the way.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Pens play 3 sets of back to back games over their next 8 games.

Murray will get his opportunity to play, we will see if their is any improvement in his play.

I'm guessing Sully will let Jarry play in his hometown of Vancouver on Saturday. Murray has had some good games against Edmonton in his career so it makes sense to play Murray against Edmonton.

 

[Andy99]

Pens play 3 sets of back to back games over their next 8 games.

Murray will get his opportunity to play, we will see if their is any improvement in his play.

I'm guessing Sully will let Jarry play in his hometown of Vancouver on Saturday. Murray has had some good games against Edmonton in his career so it makes sense to play Murray against Edmonton.

Idk, playing in your hometown has a good chance of backfiring...sometimes concentration and focus is better elsewhere but I’m not sure it matters...also Canucks are not as good a team, which may favor playing a Murray, especially since we had a shootout with them and Murr may want some redemption

 

[cheesedanish87]

Idk, playing in your hometown has a good chance of backfiring...sometimes concentration and focus is better elsewhere but I’m not sure it matters...also Canucks are not as good a team, which may favor playing a Murray, especially since we had a shootout with them and Murr may want some redemption

It can backfire, but I think the player always wants to play in front of their family and friends.

And Murray's game against Vancouver was awful this year. IIRR Boeser has also scored a bunch of goals against Murray.

 

[Shady Machine]

If Sullivan has no problem dumping highly touted draft picks for reclamation projects that are playing better, you bet your ass he will have no problem making Murray the backup and riding Jarry for as long as he can. That is what coaching is about. Who ****ing cares about 2 Cups 4 years ago.

You have entered Charlie Day levels of hysteria with your defense of Murray. He is terrible this year. He was terrible last year. He was average during his supposed "hot" period last year when he came back from injury. He is and always has been an average NHL goalie, that got hot at the right time to win 2 cups, 4 YEARS AGO.

LOL.

Things I learned from this post.

- .919 SV% in 50 games is TERRIBLE
- June 2017 was 4 YEARS AGO
- He is and always has been average despite the numerical evidence early in his career that clearly suggests otherwise

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

LOL.

Things I learned from this post.

- .919 SV% in 50 games is TERRIBLE
- June 2017 was 4 YEARS AGO
- He is and always has been average despite the numerical evidence early in his career that clearly suggests otherwise

It still amazes me that some folks still use last season as proof of one of Murray's "bad" seasons.

 

[Louis Hensler]

It still amazes me that some folks still use last season as proof of one of Murray's "bad" seasons.

I think it was the playoffs. He was lights out down the stretch after a so-so start.

 

[hiptanaka]

Jarry's recent play has been impressive, but again, sample size. Brian Boucher, Andrew Raycroft, Cam Ward, Patrick Lalime, etc. were all very impressive when they first came in, but were never quite able to replicate their initial NHL success.

I'm not sure what the deal with Murray is, or if he can get back to his rookie form, but goalies who destroy the AHL as 20 year-olds, unseat established vets like Fleury, and win the Stanley cup twice (as a rookie) aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think it was the playoffs. He was lights out down the stretch after a so-so start.

A 4-game stretch in which the entire team was basically an embarrassment is more indicative of his play last year than the 50 or so games he played in the regular season?

His playoffs wasn't even that bad. He still maintained a save percentage above .900, and according to hockey-reference, had 3 quality starts out of 4 games. Not great, not series-winning. But not as awful as people seem to be making it out to be.

 

[Andy99]

A 4-game stretch in which the entire team was basically an embarrassment is more indicative of his play last year than the 50 or so games he played in the regular season?

His playoffs wasn't even that bad. He still maintained a save percentage above .900, and according to hockey-reference, had 3 quality starts out of 4 games. Not great, not series-winning. But not as awful as people seem to be making it out to be.

when people refer to his playoffs last season (and also in 2018), they’re referring not to the fact that he was bad in some objective sense, but that he was outplayed by opposing goalies...Lehner and Holtby outplayed him badly...it also became noticeable for him, even during his very good play last year, to give up winning or tying goals in the last few minutes of a game, or OT...remember the outdoor game against the Flyers...those games were just frustrating because they were goals that could’ve been stopped...

 

[Will Hunting]

Hard to say that Lehner outplayed Murray last playoffs. Simple - the islanders outplayed the Pens. Lehner was facing perimeter shots and Murray was facing odd-man rush after odd-man rush. Murray was normal to good last playoffs but the Pens played terribly.

This year is much different story tho. Pens were playing solid defensive hockey in front of him and he was just finding ways to lose them games or just finding ways to suck. There is no argument to defend his play this season other than a sample size. Jarry is excellent but a big part of his league leading stats is the team in front of him. And it is the same team behind whom Matt Murray found a way to royally suck.

Having a save percentage under 90% behind this team is absolutely brutal.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Hard to say that Lehner outplayed Murray last playoffs. Simple - the islanders outplayed the Pens. Lehner was facing perimeter shots and Murray was facing odd-man rush after odd-man rush. Murray was normal to good last playoffs but the Pens played terribly.

This year is much different story tho. Pens were playing solid defensive hockey in front of him and he was just finding ways to lose them games or just finding ways to suck. There is no argument to defend his play this season other than a sample size. Jarry is excellent but a big part of his league leading stats is the team in front of him. And it is the same team behind whom Matt Murray found a way to royally suck.

Having a save percentage under 90% behind this team is absolutely brutal.

I don't think people are really defending Murray's play this season, just pointing out that his stats are skewed by a poor November, that he's not a terrible goalie just because you (the general you) are unhappy with him, and that it's not wise to assume Jarry can maintain this level of play for the rest of the season when nothing in his career so far has suggested he will.

 

[EightyOne]

Hard to say that Lehner outplayed Murray last playoffs. Simple - the islanders outplayed the Pens. Lehner was facing perimeter shots and Murray was facing odd-man rush after odd-man rush. Murray was normal to good last playoffs but the Pens played terribly.

This year is much different story tho. Pens were playing solid defensive hockey in front of him and he was just finding ways to lose them games or just finding ways to suck. There is no argument to defend his play this season other than a sample size. Jarry is excellent but a big part of his league leading stats is the team in front of him. And it is the same team behind whom Matt Murray found a way to royally suck.

Having a save percentage under 90% behind this team is absolutely brutal.

And some of Murray's best years came behind some of the best teamwork ever seen.

Hmmmm.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It can backfire, but I think the player always wants to play in front of their family and friends.

And Murray's game against Vancouver was awful this year. IIRR Boeser has also scored a bunch of goals against Murray.

Murray calls Boeser, Daddy.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And some of Murray's best years came behind some of the best teamwork ever seen.

Hmmmm.

Jarry has faced more shots on average than Murray has, as a matter of fact, Murray routinely faces less shots out of most #1 goaltenders in the league and that includes this year when the defense has actually been much better and he's still been ass. Jarry meanwhile, has had multiple 30+ save games and has been stellar. He's come in to relieve Murray after one of his stinkers and has let in a goal or two in that time, but when he starts a game, he finishes strong.

People are so keen on making excuses for how or why Murray is playing badly or how he will rebound, meanwhile there's only a few that are finally starting to accept that Jarry is #1 caliber and isn't some guy on a fluky hot streak.

The same way Darcy Kuemper isn't one in Arizona. Some very good goalies take time to get to where they are. Not everyone Jim Carrey's out to start their career. Murray hasn't been trending the right way since the 2nd cup. He's consistently had inconsistent starts and usually by November/December, he turns it around. This time, he isn't.

I would offer him a 2yr deal at a slight raise, otherwise, enjoy Seattle narrow head.