Rumor: What the trade for JK could have looked like...

[Habs Icing]

Now...if your point is that sure they did, but they surely didn't offer those kinds of prospects...well that belongs to Godin and his story. Personnally, I think it's possible based on the fact that I don't think we're talking about top end prospects. And I think that Waddell might have very hope to NOT go in overpayment territory and be ready to part ways with one of those guys. I mean...if Rees leaves your organization, you still have Suzuki, Gunler and all the rest of those prospects. Canes are rich in prospects.

Basically, that is one of my points.

Another point: this is the Canes not letting go of their anger and being petty. There were two parties negotiating those trade talks. The Canes and the Habs. I don't see this info coming out of the Habs camp. MB definitely didn't release it and if it was one of his people he would know who and that person would be out on his ass.

So the leak was from the Canes' side. Or do you think the leak was from one of the other 30 teams in the league? Unless you can come up with another plausible source, the info came out of the Canes camp. You have to ask yourself why would they leak this tidbit. The answer is simple. This is a continuation of the Canes trying to teach MB and any other GM not to puck with them. They're trying to make MB look dumber than what most of the fans think he is. And I'm almost 100% positive that the trade they fed Godin is a combination of two trades they proposed to MB. Maybe one offer was a 1st and 3rd and a 2nd offer was of those 4 prospects and a second. They conflated the two offers to make MB look bad.

As for your point that they would not risk alienating those 4 prospects, well Aho risked alienating Canes' management when he signed the OS and nothing came of it. The same with those prospects. They know it's a business. Besides, what are those prospects going to do? Refuse to play? Demand for a trade?

 

[Archijerej]

Not sure what that means. The deal is the more favorable of the 2 picks if neither is in the top 10 pick. If we stay where we thought we'd be...they will STILL get the pick from the Canes.

What I meant is that Godin's speculating Dvorak could have been acquired for Carolina's pick if not for the leverage Arizona had because of the offer sheet.

I'm sceptical, because I don't see why would they move Dvorak for a (most likely) late 1st rounder.

 

[abo9]

Basically, that is one of my points.

Another point: this is the Canes not letting go of their anger and being petty. There were two parties negotiating those trade talks. The Canes and the Habs. I don't see this info coming out of the Habs camp. MB definitely didn't release it and if it was one of his people he would know who and that person would be out on his ass.

So the leak was from the Canes' side. Or do you think the leak was from one of the other 30 teams in the league? Unless you can come up with another plausible source, the info came out of the Canes camp. You have to ask yourself why would they leak this tidbit. The answer is simple. This is a continuation of the Canes trying to teach MB and any other GM not to puck with them. They're trying to make MB look dumber than what most of the fans think he is. And I'm almost 100% positive that the trade they fed Godin is a combination of two trades they proposed to MB. Maybe one offer was a 1st and 3rd and a 2nd offer was of those 4 prospects and a second. They conflated the two offers to make MB look bad.

As for your point that they would not risk alienating those 4 prospects, well Aho risked alienating Canes' management when he signed the OS and nothing came of it. The same with those prospects. They know it's a business. Besides, what are those prospects going to do? Refuse to play? Demand for a trade?

Why would the Canes only offer a 1st and a 3rd for Kotkaniemi if they were threatening the Habs to do an OS?

As the Habs you just let them overpay and get those picks anyway (and unconditional!)
Or you hope they're not serious and offer a cheaper contract and match... either way that would be a clown OS threat on Aho's level.

3rd scenario is hope they're not seriously considering an OS, but they're still tendering the trade offer lol.

Logically, they were offering a 1st, 3rd and a sweetener to the Habs. I guess the sweetener was not enough for MB but still

 

[Habs Icing]

Why would the Canes only offer a 1st and a 3rd for Kotkaniemi if they were threatening the Habs to do an OS?

As the Habs you just let them overpay and get those picks anyway (and unconditional!)
Or you hope they're not serious and offer a cheaper contract and match... either way that would be a clown OS threat on Aho's level.

3rd scenario is hope they're not seriously considering an OS, but they're still tendering the trade offer lol.

Logically, they were offering a 1st, 3rd and a sweetener to the Habs. I guess the sweetener was not enough for MB but still

Because with a trade it would cost them only a 1st and a 3rd plus let's say 3M in salary. With an OS sheet it cost them a 1st, a 3rd and 6.1M. And I think the trade talk was a scam. They just wanted to see how much the Habs really wanted to keep KK. They figured MB was dead set on keeping KK so they OSsheeted him thinking MB would counter. It backfired on them.

 

[abo9]

Because with a trade it would cost them only a 1st and a 3rd plus let's say 3M in salary. With an OS sheet it cost them a 1st, a 3rd and 6.1M. And I think the trade talk was a scam. They just wanted to see how much the Habs really wanted to keep KK. They figured MB was dead set on keeping KK so they OSsheeted him thinking MB would counter. It backfired on them.

Ahhh well no wonder you dont believe the trade talks then.

I don't think they just played a silly prank on MB. You don't just OS 6.1M (and risk a first and a third pick) for a joke... especially not when the Canes are a strong team.

I think they're very happy with how things turned out

 

[Hins77]

Kotkaniemi is playing 11-12 minutes a games. 2 points in 5 games. I mean. Its become really concerning for a 3rd oa pick. Thats a really low contribution. I mean. We should just be happy to have those picks right now, cause if he continues like that. Canes gonna be stuck with him and they will never be able to get something equal to what they give for him next summer. His progression curve is really flat right now. Lets see but odds are against him

 

[Doc McKenna]

Ahhh well no wonder you dont believe the trade talks then.

I don't think they just played a silly prank on MB. You don't just OS 6.1M (and risk a first and a third pick) for a joke... especially not when the Canes are a strong team.

I think they're very happy with how things turned out

Given how badly we develop 1st rounders, I certainly would have traded a late draft for a sure thing nhler even if he doesnt develop past a 40 pointish centre. Esp one that just turned 21

 

[Doc McKenna]

Kotkaniemi is playing 11-12 minutes a games. 2 points in 5 games. I mean. Its become really concerning for a 3rd oa pick. Thats a really low contribution. I mean. We should just be happy to have those picks right now, cause if he continues like that. Canes gonna be stuck with him and they will never be able to get something equal to what they give for him next summer. His progression curve is really flat right now. Lets see but odds are against him

Or they let him walk...how have our top picks been working out. A gamble could work out but low risk bergie prefers shuffling players on the bottom six than picking a direction.

 

[Hins77]

Or they let him walk...how have our top picks been working out. A gamble could work out but low risk bergie prefers shuffling players on the bottom six than picking a direction.

I don’t call it a low risk. Giving a first and a third + 6 millions . I mean. I wouldnt give a first pick for zadina and certainly not a big contract

 

[Whitesnake]

What I meant is that Godin's speculating Dvorak could have been acquired for Carolina's pick if not for the leverage Arizona had because of the offer sheet.

I'm sceptical, because I don't see why would they move Dvorak for a (most likely) late 1st rounder.

Well we don't know. Could we have added a prospect as well to the day? Could we have added a 2nd? Did any other teams had interest for Dvorak? Could they still have done it 'cause nobody was given them a 1st anyway?

 

[Archijerej]

Well we don't know. Could we have added a prospect as well to the day? Could we have added a 2nd? Did any other teams had interest for Dvorak? Could they still have done it 'cause nobody was given them a 1st anyway?

Yes, we don't know.

I believe the trade rumour, because it made sense for Carolina to keep Kotkaniemi's cap hit low. However, the wording of the part where he writes about Dvorak seems like a pure speculation.

Arizona didn't have to rush the Dvorak trade, so even if no one was offering a 1st, it doesn't mean they were ready to trade him for a late 1st rounder.

 

[Whitesnake]

Basically, that is one of my points.

Another point: this is the Canes not letting go of their anger and being petty. There were two parties negotiating those trade talks. The Canes and the Habs. I don't see this info coming out of the Habs camp. MB definitely didn't release it and if it was one of his people he would know who and that person would be out on his ass.

So the leak was from the Canes' side. Or do you think the leak was from one of the other 30 teams in the league? Unless you can come up with another plausible source, the info came out of the Canes camp. You have to ask yourself why would they leak this tidbit. The answer is simple. This is a continuation of the Canes trying to teach MB and any other GM not to puck with them. They're trying to make MB look dumber than what most of the fans think he is. And I'm almost 100% positive that the trade they fed Godin is a combination of two trades they proposed to MB. Maybe one offer was a 1st and 3rd and a 2nd offer was of those 4 prospects and a second. They conflated the two offers to make MB look bad.

As for your point that they would not risk alienating those 4 prospects, well Aho risked alienating Canes' management when he signed the OS and nothing came of it. The same with those prospects. They know it's a business. Besides, what are those prospects going to do? Refuse to play? Demand for a trade?

• Well....he would know who....maybe? Maybe not? They will all say that they didn't say anything?
• Then....geez...the continuation of the Canes to try to teach MB a lesson? Why? Wasn't it that enough to be laughed at that much? Do you think an organization will most likely want to punish that much other teams they do business with for the fun of it?
• Just wondering....again, why is it so hard to believe? See, some don't even think it's that big of a deal. Some thinks it's stupid. Some will think that it's understandable that Bergie didn't believe an OS was coming...To each their own. Yeah, personnally, Bergevin has done some stupid things and not doing this just proves it even more....BUt did I needed this to prove how disconnected he is? Of course not. Did you see anybody in here say that THIS news was the final straw in them determining whether Bergevin was fit or not to be the GM? lol
• As far as believing what combination of trades it is...well that's just as much a guess as what you say Godin did....and with the reverse purpose of trying to make Bergevin less stupid....not sure how that's any better.
• Aho? Well because everybody knew they would match it. 'Cause that salary per year is a joke. 'Cause AHO would piss on their front porch and they'll say thank you. What would prospects do? Well for now not much...but when it could be time from signing extensions and whatever...it could potentially be on their mind. I mean..clearly, JK had something in his mind when he signed elsewhere....and the Habs conduct towards him surely didn't help....

In the end, I don't need to know from the Canes that Bergevin was stupid enough to not get a prospect in this whole story. He stupidly mismanaged JK from the get go. He stupidly let him be available. And while he probably didn't get more from the Canes, he put himself in a position of weakness towards the Coyotes.

 

[Whitesnake]

Yes, we don't know.

I believe the trade rumour, because it made sense for Carolina to keep Kotkaniemi's cap hit low. However, the wording of the part where he writes about Dvorak seems like a pure speculation.

Arizona didn't have to rush the Dvorak trade, so even if no one was offering a 1st, it doesn't mean they were ready to trade him for a late 1st rounder.

Yes. The Dvorak part is CLEARLY more speculation than the news about the trade that was offered. At least how it was written. That's for sure.

 

[Whitesnake]

Because with a trade it would cost them only a 1st and a 3rd plus let's say 3M in salary. With an OS sheet it cost them a 1st, a 3rd and 6.1M. And I think the trade talk was a scam. They just wanted to see how much the Habs really wanted to keep KK. They figured MB was dead set on keeping KK so they OSsheeted him thinking MB would counter. It backfired on them.

A dead set Bergevin interested in keeping KK would have made SURE that KK would have been signed especially since he started to know the interest of the Canes. Letting KK be available like that was not a dead set GM on a player.

See Nick Suzuki.

 

[abo9]

I don’t call it a low risk. Giving a first and a third + 6 millions . I mean. I wouldnt give a first pick for zadina and certainly not a big contract

Tampa gave up more for 3 months of David Savard. They even gave up a first for Goodrow. Toronto traded a first for a washed up Nick Foligno.

The cap hit might come back and backfire on the Canes at the TDL, but worst case scenario Kotkaniemi is just a failed rental and the Canes move on ...

 

[Cookie007]

The guy has 2 pts in 5 games, playing 11-13 minutes per game on the wing. yes he scored against us but he's flat lining hard. Not to mention, in past years, he's been known to slump during the middle of the long dreaded season. Unless things changes, he's on pace for another 30 points per year if not less. Point wise, he even worst than Chucky's pace when he traded him right now.

The right thing now was letting him for a first and not resigning 6.1 - good job bergie
The right thing back then, was picking Brady Tkatchuk - bad job bergie

the issue has, and always has been drafting.. to think timmins has been in his job for the past 15+ years is crazy. take out the price pick and the 2017 draft

old article but I remember this post getting bashed on here years ago. and it only covers up to 2009. to think after there were bealieu, tinordi, mccaron, scherbak, galchenyuk, colberg, kristo, juulsen. soon we can even add poehling into it

Trevor Timmins, The Habs’ Jekyll and Hyde

 

[Hins77]

Tampa gave up more for 3 months of David Savard. They even gave up a first for Goodrow. Toronto traded a first for a washed up Nick Foligno.

The cap hit might come back and backfire on the Canes at the TDL, but worst case scenario Kotkaniemi is just a failed rental and the Canes move on ...

. For goodrow. They also received a 3rd pick with goodrow and savard. They retain his salary. I mean. Those guy brought them a stanley cup. They been really effective. You think KK will bring to carolina a cup? Pretty sure your asking to Brisebois if he wanted kk over goodrow last deadline. Im sure he still prefer goodrow for what he brings.

 

[abo9]

. For goodrow. They also received a 3rd pick with goodrow and savard. They retain his salary. I mean. Those guy brought them a stanley cup. They been really effective. You think KK will bring to carolina a cup? Pretty sure your asking to Brisebois if he wanted kk over goodrow last deadline. Im sure he still prefer goodrow for what he brings.

Ehhh if you think Goodrow and Savard "brought Tampa a Stanley Cup" then sure, if Carolina wins the Stanley Cup, Kotkaniemi brought it to them

Come on, is it that hard to believe that they actually wanted 21 years old Kotkaniemi and paid a relatively minor price for a guy they might still consider a quality prospect?

He's at least an NHLer, how many late 1sts are NHLers? It's a good gamble

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Bergevin is an awful GM
They are more reasons to believe this is true than it's not.

Don't why people even act surprised. Bergevin doesnt know how to trade correctly.

 

[sampollock]

Bergevin is an awful GM
They are more reasons to believe this is true than it's not.

Don't why people even act surprised. Bergevin doesnt know how to trade correctly.

timmins is worse

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

timmins is worse

Guess who gave Timmins a bigger job in the org since his arrival
If Bergevin was not following up his idea , he would have fired him by now.
Clearly they are buddies

 

[ChesterNimitz]

If it's true, Bergevin is a bigger egotistical idiot than I thought.

No, he is, what I have often called him: an Idiot Savant.

 

[Hins77]

Ehhh if you think Goodrow and Savard "brought Tampa a Stanley Cup" then sure, if Carolina wins the Stanley Cup, Kotkaniemi brought it to them

Come on, is it that hard to believe that they actually wanted 21 years old Kotkaniemi and paid a relatively minor price for a guy they might still consider a quality prospect?

He's at least an NHLer, how many late 1sts are NHLers? It's a good gamble

Like i said. Would you give a first pick and a third for zadina ? +6 millions

 

[Heffyhoof]

Why would the Canes only offer a 1st and a 3rd for Kotkaniemi if they were threatening the Habs to do an OS?

As the Habs you just let them overpay and get those picks anyway (and unconditional!)
Or you hope they're not serious and offer a cheaper contract and match... either way that would be a clown OS threat on Aho's level.

3rd scenario is hope they're not seriously considering an OS, but they're still tendering the trade offer lol.

Logically, they were offering a 1st, 3rd and a sweetener to the Habs. I guess the sweetener was not enough for MB but still

Careful buddy, if you read his first paragraph it was the Canes who leaked it, obviously, and you need to prove otherwise. At least the Canes are getting Montreal and MB some sympathy.

 

[abo9]

Like i said. Would you give a first pick and a third for zadina ? +6 millions

I haven't followed Zadina's development, but from a quick glance at his stats, yes, I would give a late pick and a 3rd for Zadina, +6 millions for 1 year. He seems to be trending to be at least a .5 ppg player at 21-22. I'll take my shot with an NHLer over another Ryan Poehling/Juulsen/Scherbak/McCarron

Careful buddy, if you read his first paragraph it was the Canes who leaked it, obviously, and you need to prove otherwise. At least the Canes are getting Montreal and MB some sympathy.

What do I need to prove? IF there were trade talks involved, it's just logical that the Canes would offer 1st + 3rd + sweetener. It's all speculations though. What would be the point of leaking a fake rumour anyway? MB doesn't need that to look bad...