Rumor: What the trade for JK could have looked like...

[Whitesnake]

Le calepin du Canadien: Pourquoi le tour du chapeau de Mathieu Perreault est important, d'où viennent les ennuis de l'attaque à cinq, et plus

2 picks + 1 prospect not named Seth Jarvis like Bokk, Suzuki, Gunler or Rees in order to not overpay for JK.

Habs said no. They prefer seeing them overpay than adding a prospect.

Les tentatives du directeur général des Hurricanes, Don Waddell, de conclure un échange avant de compléter l’offre hostile ont été bien documentées. Notre compréhension des choses, c’est que l’offre portait sur les deux choix de repêchage en plus d’un choix supplémentaire, ou bien la possibilité pour le Canadien de choisir un espoir de son choix – autre que Seth Jarvis – à ajouter à la transaction. Cela signifierait qu’un espoir comme Dominik Bokk, Ryan Suzuki, Noel Gunler ou Jamieson Rees aurait pu être ajouté à la transaction.
Le Canadien a dit non.

Click to read more...

 

[Kriss E]

Le calepin du Canadien: Pourquoi le tour du chapeau de Mathieu Perreault est important, d'où viennent les ennuis de l'attaque à cinq, et plus

2 picks + 1 prospect not named Seth Jarvis like Bokk, Suzuki, Gunler or Rees in order to not overpay for JK.

Habs said no. They prefer seeing them overpay than adding a prospect.

Les tentatives du directeur général des Hurricanes, Don Waddell, de conclure un échange avant de compléter l’offre hostile ont été bien documentées. Notre compréhension des choses, c’est que l’offre portait sur les deux choix de repêchage en plus d’un choix supplémentaire, ou bien la possibilité pour le Canadien de choisir un espoir de son choix – autre que Seth Jarvis – à ajouter à la transaction. Cela signifierait qu’un espoir comme Dominik Bokk, Ryan Suzuki, Noel Gunler ou Jamieson Rees aurait pu être ajouté à la transaction.
Le Canadien a dit non.

Why would they have refused this?

 

[Whitesnake]

Why would they have refused this?

Couple of reasons...

• Not interested in any prospects?
• Or not believing that they would overpay for him?
• Not believing that an offer sheet was coming?

Stupid...but those are potential reasons.

 

[sampollock]

[QUOTE = "Whitesnake, post: 180741783, member: 6700"] Couple of reasons ...

• Not interested in any prospects?
• Or not believing that they would overpay for him?
• Not believing that an offer sheet was coming?

Stupid ... but those are potential reasons. [/ QUOTE]
crazy... how things go

 

[Habano]

Le calepin du Canadien: Pourquoi le tour du chapeau de Mathieu Perreault est important, d'où viennent les ennuis de l'attaque à cinq, et plus

2 picks + 1 prospect not named Seth Jarvis like Bokk, Suzuki, Gunler or Rees in order to not overpay for JK.

Habs said no. They prefer seeing them overpay than adding a prospect.

Les tentatives du directeur général des Hurricanes, Don Waddell, de conclure un échange avant de compléter l’offre hostile ont été bien documentées. Notre compréhension des choses, c’est que l’offre portait sur les deux choix de repêchage en plus d’un choix supplémentaire, ou bien la possibilité pour le Canadien de choisir un espoir de son choix – autre que Seth Jarvis – à ajouter à la transaction. Cela signifierait qu’un espoir comme Dominik Bokk, Ryan Suzuki, Noel Gunler ou Jamieson Rees aurait pu être ajouté à la transaction.
Le Canadien a dit non.

If it's true, Bergevin is a bigger egotistical idiot than I thought.

 

[le_sean]

Couple of reasons...

• Not interested in any prospects?
• Or not believing that they would overpay for him?
• Not believing that an offer sheet was coming?

Stupid...but those are potential reasons.

Is it mentioned what picks they were offered?

They probably wanted to keep KK anyways but he was playing hardball. They likely match in that $4.1m threshold (for only a 2nd). They didn’t think anyone was dumb and petty enough to offer $6.1m.

 

[417]

Le calepin du Canadien: Pourquoi le tour du chapeau de Mathieu Perreault est important, d'où viennent les ennuis de l'attaque à cinq, et plus

2 picks + 1 prospect not named Seth Jarvis like Bokk, Suzuki, Gunler or Rees in order to not overpay for JK.

Habs said no. They prefer seeing them overpay than adding a prospect.

Les tentatives du directeur général des Hurricanes, Don Waddell, de conclure un échange avant de compléter l’offre hostile ont été bien documentées. Notre compréhension des choses, c’est que l’offre portait sur les deux choix de repêchage en plus d’un choix supplémentaire, ou bien la possibilité pour le Canadien de choisir un espoir de son choix – autre que Seth Jarvis – à ajouter à la transaction. Cela signifierait qu’un espoir comme Dominik Bokk, Ryan Suzuki, Noel Gunler ou Jamieson Rees aurait pu être ajouté à la transaction.
Le Canadien a dit non.

So i'm supposed to believe the Habs refused to have a prospect essentially throw into a deal?

Or better yet, i'm supposed to believe the Carolina Hurricanes were offering the Habs

1st + 3rd + Bokk or Suzuki or Gunler or Rees?

and then said no...yet turned around and took the compensation for less?

Come on lol

I guess (and this isn't directed at you) if you want to believe that Bergevin is this dumb, this kind of story rates.

Common sense says it doesn't.

 

[Not The One]

Imagine the reaction here if MB traded the Golden Boy for two lower picks and a B prospect and Carolina immediately signed him to a "reasonable" long-term contract...

If the Habs were planning to replace KK with another C (as they should have and which they did), the pieces they were getting pack very probably couldn't be packaged for a Dvorak-type player. The key was the 1st round pick they got as compensation.

 

[Whitesnake]

So i'm supposed to believe the Habs refused to have a prospect essentially throw into a deal?

Or better yet, i'm supposed to believe the Carolina Hurricanes were offering the Habs

1st + 3rd + Bokk or Suzuki or Gunler or Rees?

and then said no...yet turned around and took the compensation for less?

Come on lol

I guess (and this isn't directed at you) if you want to believe that Bergevin is this dumb, this kind of story rates.

Common sense says it doesn't.

Marc-Antoine Godin isn't Gaston Therrien. Then......why can't you believe that Bergevin might have thought that the Canes would not offer sheet him and prefered, maybe, keeping JK, than doing that trade? And that we wasn't losing a 1st and a 3rd 'cause if Waddell signed JK, that would be the return. So that in the end, what he was losing was the prospect for either the possibility of keeping JK and/or seeing the Canes overpay for him 'cause he wasn't enamored with the prospects offered?

What common sense are you referring to? lol. Aren't we ALWAYS stating that every trade is dumb from any team's perspective? lol

Canes are kind of rich in those types of prospects. Not too hard to think that the price they were willing to pay to NOT overpay for JK was that kind of prospect. And it's not solely about overpaying this year but the following years also.

 

[Whitesnake]

Imagine the reaction here if MB traded the Golden Boy for two lower picks and a B prospect and Carolina immediately signed him to a "reasonable" long-term contract...

If the Habs were planning to replace KK with another C (as they should have and which they did), the pieces they were getting pack very probably couldn't be packaged for a Dvorak-type player. The key was the 1st round pick they got as compensation.

They were getting a 1st round pick back.

 

[Whitesnake]

Is it mentioned what picks they were offered?

They probably wanted to keep KK anyways but he was playing hardball. They likely match in that $4.1m threshold (for only a 2nd). They didn’t think anyone was dumb and petty enough to offer $6.1m.

Same as the offer sheet. 1st and 3rd.

 

[417]

Marc-Antoine Godin isn't Gaston Therrien.

OK??? I don't get the connection.

Then......why can't you believe that Bergevin might have thought that the Canes would not offer sheet him and prefered, maybe, keeping JK, than doing that trade?

It's less that.

I'm putting myself in the Canes shoes - if you want Kotkaniemi and you're negotiating with Bergevin and you presumably know you're going to offer sheet him AND you know the compensation that it's going to take to pry him away is at the very minimum a 1st + 3rd.

Why would you negotiate a deal offering more?

And that we wasn't losing a 1st and a 3rd 'cause if Waddell signed JK, that would be the return. So that in the end, what he was losing was the prospect for either the possibility of keeping JK and/or seeing the Canes overpay for him 'cause he wasn't enamored with the prospects offered?

What common sense are you referring to? lol. Aren't we ALWAYS stating that every trade is dumb from any team's perspective? lol

Just doesn't add up IMO...what makes a lot more sense was that when the Canes were negotiating for Kotkaniemi, it was a for a lesser offer than they ultimately knew they'd end up paying.

 

[417]

Same as the offer sheet. 1st and 3rd.

But why would you throw in a prospect if you know you're ultimately going to force the Habs with a lesser offer? lol

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Le calepin du Canadien: Pourquoi le tour du chapeau de Mathieu Perreault est important, d'où viennent les ennuis de l'attaque à cinq, et plus

2 picks + 1 prospect not named Seth Jarvis like Bokk, Suzuki, Gunler or Rees in order to not overpay for JK.

Habs said no. They prefer seeing them overpay than adding a prospect.

Les tentatives du directeur général des Hurricanes, Don Waddell, de conclure un échange avant de compléter l’offre hostile ont été bien documentées. Notre compréhension des choses, c’est que l’offre portait sur les deux choix de repêchage en plus d’un choix supplémentaire, ou bien la possibilité pour le Canadien de choisir un espoir de son choix – autre que Seth Jarvis – à ajouter à la transaction. Cela signifierait qu’un espoir comme Dominik Bokk, Ryan Suzuki, Noel Gunler ou Jamieson Rees aurait pu être ajouté à la transaction.
Le Canadien a dit non.

These rumours are all balogna - the worst part is they become fact on hfboards. Good for the press I guess, they make their money...

 

[Adam Michaels]

Friedman in one of his 32 Thoughts said the return in compensation was about the same as what the offer was in trade talks between Habs and Canes.

 

[Whitesnake]

OK??? I don't get the connection.

Why would a serious journalist not known for bullshitting would invent something like that?

It's less that.

I'm putting myself in the Canes shoes - if you want Kotkaniemi and you're negotiating with Bergevin and you presumably know you're going to offer sheet him AND you know the compensation that it's going to take to pry him away is at the very minimum a 1st + 3rd.

Why would you negotiate a deal offering more?

Because their 1st choice, even though you want him, was obviously not to pay him 6'1M$ and you preferred getting rid of a prospect that maybe you don't value too much in order to get JK at a much better salary?

 

[Whitesnake]

These rumours are all balogna - the worst part is they become fact on hfboards. Good for the press I guess, they make their money...

I did use the RUMOR title......And if it would come from anybody else than Godin or a few otehrs, would not have posted it.

 

[CHfan1]

But why would you throw in a prospect if you know you're ultimately going to force the Habs with a lesser offer? lol

So they wouldn’t have to pay Kotkaniemi $6.1 million for this season and could give him a reasonable contract.

 

[Whitesnake]

But why would you throw in a prospect if you know you're ultimately going to force the Habs with a lesser offer? lol

Because you preferred that over the overpayment?

 

[salbutera]

Is it mentioned what picks they were offered?

They probably wanted to keep KK anyways but he was playing hardball. They likely match in that $4.1m threshold (for only a 2nd). They didn’t think anyone was dumb and petty enough to offer $6.1m.

Agree, I think this is exactly what happened - Habs wanted to keep & grow KK but not at that cap hit.

If rumor has merit, org also likely don’t feel any of the prospects offered will be “all that”.

 

[417]

Why would a serious journalist not known for bullshitting would invent something like that?

I have no clue - I didn't suggest he invented anything. I'm sure he's reporting what he's heard.

Doesn't make it accurate.

Because their 1st choice, even though you want him, was obviously not to pay him 6'1M$ and you preferred getting rid of a prospect that maybe you don't value too much in order to get JK at a much better salary?

Correct, they preferred to get him for LESS than what they ultimately paid (1st + 3rd) so again, why would they offer MORE than what they knew they'd ultimately have to pay?

I mean, even if they don't value the prospect (Suzuki/Rees/Gunler/Bokk) there's absolutely no reason to throw them into a trade for shits & giggles.

 

[417]

So they wouldn’t have to pay Kotkaniemi $6.1 million for this season and could give him a reasonable contract.

I don't know...they're really only paying Kotkaniemi about 3M'ish over what would have been a reasonable contract, they had the money for it.

I know people go crazy over that 6.1M amount, but I don't think it's that big of a deal for them.

 

[417]

Because you preferred that over the overpayment?

The overpayment is not the salary...it's the assets.

the 6.1M is just for one season and it's really just 3M over what they would have paid him normally.

 

[Deebs]

He's gone and we move on.

 

[salbutera]

I don't know...they're really only paying Kotkaniemi about 3M'ish over what would have been a reasonable contract, they had the money for it.

I know people go crazy over that 6.1M amount, but I don't think it's that big of a deal for them.

TSN showed a stat that arbitrators will usually air on the side of the player, meaning even if KK has another 20-30 pts season he will get minimum $6.1M arbitration award ...should it get there.

That’s a risk needing to be factored in, if the Habs had matched