Speculation: What do you think about the whole canadian division

[4Twenty]

I didn't say the shot attempts were even, I'm saying they stopped trying to score after game 4 and just sat back on their heels and waited for odd-man rushes the other way. Canucks won 3 games in this series, you are giving Vegas waaaaay too much credit. They looked like the gang that couldn't shoot straight out there. Dallas showed that Vegas isn't the team you are making them out to be.

So if Vegas isn’t the team I’m making them out to be and they still dominated the Canucks and shut them out 3 times while carrying the play doesn’t that mean the Canucks aren’t what you’re making them out to be?

Vegas is really good. The Canucks needed an all time goaltending performance to get that series to 7.

The Canucks couldn’t mount a forecheck when they tried in that series. That they went into a shell and still allowed premium scoring opportunities but were bailed out by Demko doesn’t mean they weren’t dominating the play.

Can you recall a 7 game series where the game was dictated more by one team? They absolutely took the series to us. Played an extremely tight series against Dallas and lost two OT games iirc. Acting like Vegas isn’t that good and the gap between them and Vancouver isn’t massive is just setting unreasonable targets.

 

[Hammer79]

So if Vegas isn’t the team I’m making them out to be and they still dominated the Canucks and shut them out 3 times while carrying the play doesn’t that mean the Canucks aren’t what you’re making them out to be?

Vegas is really good. The Canucks needed an all time goaltending performance to get that series to 7.

The Canucks couldn’t mount a forecheck when they tried in that series. That they went into a shell and still allowed premium scoring opportunities but were bailed out by Demko doesn’t mean they weren’t dominating the play.

Can you recall a 7 game series where the game was dictated more by one team? They absolutely took the series to us. Played an extremely tight series against Dallas and lost two OT games iirc. Acting like Vegas isn’t that good and the gap between them and Vancouver isn’t massive is just setting unreasonable targets.

What series were you watching? The Blues were more offensively dangerous than Vegas. Yes, Vegas dominated zone time, but they were terrible at executing. 3 wins is 3 wins, no matter how much you want to discredit it. Vegas, Edmonton and Vancouver were all vying for first before Vegas has a 10 game stretch before the break where they locked it up. They were up and down all year and slumped in the playoffs.

 

[4Twenty]

What series were you watching? The Blues were more offensively dangerous than Vegas. Yes, Vegas dominated zone time, but they were terrible at executing. 3 wins is 3 wins, no matter how much you want to discredit it. Vegas, Edmonton and Vancouver were all vying for first before Vegas has a 10 game stretch before the break where they locked it up. They were up and down all year and slumped in the playoffs.

I would ask you the same. It looked like one way traffic throughout the series. 3 full games they couldn’t score a goal.

I’m siding with the guy who brought it up. Vegas steam rolled the Canucks. They executed well all series. They got the chances they want to get which are right in front of the net. Their scoring touch dried up.


I think this idea that Vancouver limited Vegas’ opportunities is a false narrative that isn’t borne out by any data. Fact is they didn’t score a goal in 3 of 7 games. Every game they were pinned in their own end. They didn’t choose to not have a forecheck. They couldn’t get one going regardless.

Congrats to the Canucks for making it a series. But Vegas is an excellent team that steam rolled the Canucks in that series over the general run of play everyone who watched the series saw it. There are records of the events that occurred in the games that point to it. Only you and a few fans on hfboards saw it differently.

just to add. If they best Vegas (was definitely possible in game 7 I’m sure boeser still
Has nightmares) I’m sure you wouldn’t be scoffing at Vegas’ execution. You’d be praising the Canucks for overcoming it.

 

[Yudel]

The Canucks essentially were steamrolled by Vegas. That was the most ridiculously one-sided 7-game series I've ever seen.

Whats this RumBum? We almost had them

 

[bossram]

So if Vegas isn’t the team I’m making them out to be and they still dominated the Canucks and shut them out 3 times while carrying the play doesn’t that mean the Canucks aren’t what you’re making them out to be?

Vegas is really good. The Canucks needed an all time goaltending performance to get that series to 7.

The Canucks couldn’t mount a forecheck when they tried in that series. That they went into a shell and still allowed premium scoring opportunities but were bailed out by Demko doesn’t mean they weren’t dominating the play.

Can you recall a 7 game series where the game was dictated more by one team? They absolutely took the series to us. Played an extremely tight series against Dallas and lost two OT games iirc. Acting like Vegas isn’t that good and the gap between them and Vancouver isn’t massive is just setting unreasonable targets.

I love it when the "watch the games" crowd conveniently decide to ignore what they actually watched.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

My prediction:

Toronto
Calgary
Edmonton (if either of McDavid/Drai goes down, their season takes a huge hit)
Vancouver
Winnipeg (I think Vancouver and Winnipeg are pretty equal)
Montreal
Ottawa

 

[Hammer79]

I would ask you the same. It looked like one way traffic throughout the series. 3 full games they couldn’t score a goal.

I’m siding with the guy who brought it up. Vegas steam rolled the Canucks. They executed well all series. They got the chances they want to get which are right in front of the net. Their scoring touch dried up.


I think this idea that Vancouver limited Vegas’ opportunities is a false narrative that isn’t borne out by any data. Fact is they didn’t score a goal in 3 of 7 games. Every game they were pinned in their own end. They didn’t choose to not have a forecheck. They couldn’t get one going regardless.

Congrats to the Canucks for making it a series. But Vegas is an excellent team that steam rolled the Canucks in that series over the general run of play everyone who watched the series saw it. There are records of the events that occurred in the games that point to it. Only you and a few fans on hfboards saw it differently.

just to add. If they best Vegas (was definitely possible in game 7 I’m sure boeser still
Has nightmares) I’m sure you wouldn’t be scoffing at Vegas’ execution. You’d be praising the Canucks for overcoming it.

The Blues were a much better team than Vegas; better offensively, better from the point, better at directing shots on net. The difference is that Vegas got replacement level goaltending, while the Blues was below replacement level. Yes, the Canucks struggled to score, that doesn't mean Vegas was somehow a good team. These aren't mutually exclusive things. They beat Chicago, 12th place team, played us while we were injured *still* couldn't score, got exposed by Dallas.

 

[4Twenty]

The Blues were a much better team than Vegas; better offensively, better from the point, better at directing shots on net. The difference is that Vegas got replacement level goaltending, while the Blues was below replacement level. Yes, the Canucks struggled to score, that doesn't mean Vegas was somehow a good team. These aren't mutually exclusive things. They beat Chicago, 12th place team, played us while we were injured *still* couldn't score, got exposed by Dallas.

There is a lot of junk to unpack here:

Vegas shutout the Canucks 3 times, yet got replaceable level goaltending? Weird statement.

Vegas got replacement level goaltending and yet the Canucks still struggled to score and were buried in their own end most of the games, but that doesn't mean Vegas in a good team? This is next level ridiculous statement especially trying to paint Vancouver nicely.

What were the Canucks if they got shutout 3 times by replacement level goaltending behind a "not good team". What a crock.

edit* I'd just like to add
In what way were they "exposed" against Dallas, I just want to be clear, those looked like 5 pretty even hockey games to me, but I guess in 2020, losing hockey games is getting "exposed". It's strange, because I would think, getting shutout 3 times, but what you deem a bad team with replacement level goaltending would be the team getting exposed. The stats showed that they were expected to score nearly 1.5 less goals per game than Vegas each and every game of the series at 5 on 5. The Canucks decided to go into a shell to apparently rope a dope a bad team with replacement level goaltending......wow!!! I would love to see the evidence that the Blues were a better offensive team this playoffs, I won't hold my breath though, there isn't any.

Anyways, you can carry it on all you want, I think the things you're posting are ridiculous at this stage and aren't really making a ton of sense when trying to argue that the Canucks were somehow good....in a series they were shutout 3 times.

edit* I'd just like to add, that if Vegas was crap, then Demko's performance isn't really special, yet we've decided he was the right guy to choose, based on a bad team not being able to score on him? Like I just can't follow your thoughts here, I was going to call it logic, but it's the furthest thing from logic.

 

[Hammer79]

There is a lot of junk to unpack here:

Vegas shutout the Canucks 3 times, yet got replaceable level goaltending? Weird statement.
Vegas got replacement level goaltending and yet the Canucks still struggled to score and were buried in their own end most of the games, but that doesn't mean Vegas in a good team? This is next level ridiculous statement especially trying to paint Vancouver nicely.



.

Not really when you consider our injuries. Toffoli was supposed to be a big part of our attack and was on one foot. We had a pop gun offense and still won 3 games. I don't know how you could have watched those playoffs and concluded that Vegas was a better offensive team than the Blues. The Blues were way more dangerous. Don't confuse Vegas' zone time with effective offense. I think that's where you are going off track. Vegas was in our zone, but rarely looked dangerous because of how uncoordinated they were and they didn't have a #1 D like the Blues' AP to blast it in from the point like he did.

 

[Kryten]

Not really when you consider our injuries. Toffoli was supposed to be a big part of our attack and was on one foot. We had a pop gun offense and still won 3 games. I don't know how you could have watched those playoffs and concluded that Vegas was a better offensive team than the Blues. The Blues were way more dangerous. Don't confuse Vegas' zone time with effective offense. I think that's where you are going off track. Vegas was in our zone, but rarely looked dangerous because of how uncoordinated they were and they didn't have a #1 D like the Blues' AP to blast it in from the point like he did.

Shea Theodore had 7 goals and 19 points in 20 playoff games

 

[4Twenty]

Not really when you consider our injuries. Toffoli was supposed to be a big part of our attack and was on one foot. We had a pop gun offense and still won 3 games. I don't know how you could have watched those playoffs and concluded that Vegas was a better offensive team than the Blues. The Blues were way more dangerous. Don't confuse Vegas' zone time with effective offense. I think that's where you are going off track. Vegas was in our zone, but rarely looked dangerous because of how uncoordinated they were and they didn't have a #1 D like the Blues' AP to blast it in from the point like he did.

Shea Theodore scored 9 points against us.

AP 5.

I just totally disagree with everything you’re putting down. Vegas had more scoring chances, more expected goals against us than St Louis.

I can’t imagine thinking that the Blues played better than the Knights.

Toffoli entered the lineup and scored 3 points in his first game. Hard to use him as a source of being injured.


It makes no sense to me that you think the team the Canucks could attack at will and score on at a high rate was better than the one you’re saying they locked into a shell to win two of the last 3. It’s a wild interpretation.

The Knights steam rolled the Canucks, it was as one sided a 7 game series as I’ve ever watched.

The ice was tilted the whole series.

 

[Hammer79]

Shea Theodore had 7 goals and 19 points in 20 playoff games

Great, he also played a 12 place team along the way, did he have AP's point shot?

I saw a team that dominated possession but was frustrated offensively, you see the ice tilted all series.... well, if you don't capitalize on your chances, who gives a crap about zone time? Fact is, Vegas was 1 goal away from losing this series and that is down to their lack of execution, which we saw get exposed vs Dallas. Continue fawning over Vegas if you want, I'm being a realist. Vegas isn't the contender that people make them out to be.

 

[Kryten]

Great, he also played a 12 place team along the way, did he have AP's point shot?

I saw a team that dominated possession but was frustrated offensively, you see the ice tilted all series.... well, if you don't capitalize on your chances, who gives a crap about zone time? Fact is, Vegas was 1 goal away from losing this series and that is down to their lack of execution, which we saw get exposed vs Dallas. Continue fawning over Vegas if you want, I'm being a realist. Vegas isn't the contender that people make them out to be.

I’m personally not in the fawning over Vegas camp if there is one. I’m saying Theodore is a #1 and on the upswing compared to AP. Vegas’ lack of execution vs us involved our goalies playing amazing. However, Vegas going to the SCF and WCF in their first 3 years gives them a little credence of being somewhat of a contender I’d say

 

[4Twenty]

Great, he also played a 12 place team along the way, did he have AP's point shot?

I saw a team that dominated possession but was frustrated offensively, you see the ice tilted all series.... well, if you don't capitalize on your chances, who gives a crap about zone time? Fact is, Vegas was 1 goal away from losing this series and that is down to their lack of execution, which we saw get exposed vs Dallas. Continue fawning over Vegas if you want, I'm being a realist. Vegas isn't the contender that people make them out to be.

They steam rolled the Canucks.

They didn’t finish well but they certainly executed to create quality scoring opportunities.

I’m not going to hold their lack of finishing against the significantly tilted series.

You can argue theyre no good as a team but they absolutely carried the play in a dominating fashion throughout the series. One that forced the Canucks into a shell that still gave up premium opportunities.

Dallas beat them. I wouldn’t say they were exposed anymore than Mackinnon and the Avalanche were. Dallas was stingy as hell.

Theodore almost had double the points AP had vs the Canucks. Which also now makes me wonder your opinion on Schmidt.

 

[Hammer79]

They steam rolled the Canucks.

They didn’t finish well but they certainly executed to create quality scoring opportunities.

I’m not going to hold their lack of finishing against the significantly tilted series.

You can argue theyre no good as a team but they absolutely carried the play in a dominating fashion throughout the series. One that forced the Canucks into a shell that still gave up premium opportunities.

Dallas beat them. I wouldn’t say they were exposed anymore than Mackinnon and the Avalanche were. Dallas was stingy as hell.

Theodore almost had double the points AP had vs the Canucks. Which also now makes me wonder your opinion on Schmidt.

We are having two different arguments; You assume I am saying the Canucks should have beat Vegas or something? Nobody gave us a chance going in, we still dragged a supposed Cup contender to 7 games and made them look like the gang that can't shoot straight. To me, that says there are fatal flaws with the construction of Vegas as a contender. The fact that they can't capitalize on all that zone time we gave them by playing guys too far up the line-up like everyone's favorite new Detroit Red Wing offseason signing. We weren't going anywhere playing that D, but the fact that Vegas couldn't expose that terrible D?..... Does that scream 'Contender' to you?

 

[4Twenty]

We are having two different arguments; You assume I am saying the Canucks should have beat Vegas or something? Nobody gave us a chance going in, we still dragged a supposed Cup contender to 7 games and made them look like the gang that can't shoot straight. To me, that says there are fatal flaws with the construction of Vegas as a contender. The fact that they can't capitalize on all that zone time we gave them by playing guys too far up the line-up like everyone's favorite new Detroit Red Wing offseason signing. We weren't going anywhere playing that D, but the fact that Vegas couldn't expose that terrible D?..... Does that scream 'Contender' to you?

You responded to a guy saying the knights steam rolled the Canucks. They did expose that D. They just didn’t score. Fatal flaws in construction is pretty strong language for a team that’s won as much as they have.

I think it screams unsustainably otherworldly goaltending.

Weird shot at Stecher considering his in ice results. A lot of people seem to buy into false narratives.

Dallas being a better defensive team and winning two OT games doesn’t tell me Vegas is fatally flawed.

What’s your opinion of Schmidt? Maybe they thought playing him that much over AP was their fatal flaw?

 

[Hammer79]

You responded to a guy saying the knights steam rolled the Canucks. They did expose that D. They just didn’t score. Fatal flaws in construction is pretty strong language for a team that’s won as much as they have.

I think it screams unsustainably otherworldly goaltending.

Weird shot at Stecher considering his in ice results. A lot of people seem to buy into false narratives.

Dallas being a better defensive team and winning two OT games doesn’t tell me Vegas is fatally flawed.

What’s your opinion of Schmidt? Maybe they thought playing him that much over AP was their fatal flaw?

Good 2nd pairing D, can move up to top pairing if needed (which we will). Probably will get a lot of ice time (if we play a season). That doesn't mean I think he's Alex Pietrangelo...

To me, there's no such thing as a 7 game steamroll. Vegas lost three games because they play poorly as a team unit. I'm not sold on Vegas' composition, don't think they made a good decision locking up Lehner at that kind of money. I think they are still riding the hype from their first season a bit, I mean, they have a good group of individuals I just was not seeing team cohesion. Demko shouldn't have made it look that easy. Just watching the two series, I definitely felt more 'fearful' that the Blues would score than Vegas. Vegas was so frustrated, it was comical. I think that's what that team truly is when the chips are down. There are reasons that teams gave up on these guys in the ED.

 

[4Twenty]

Good 2nd pairing D, can move up to top pairing if needed (which we will). Probably will get a lot of ice time (if we play a season). That doesn't mean I think he's Alex Pietrangelo...

To me, there's no such thing as a 7 game steamroll. Vegas lost three games because they play poorly as a team unit. I'm not sold on Vegas' composition, don't think they made a good decision locking up Lehner at that kind of money. I think they are still riding the hype from their first season a bit, I mean, they have a good group of individuals I just was not seeing team cohesion. Demko shouldn't have made it look that easy. Just watching the two series, I definitely felt more 'fearful' that the Blues would score than Vegas. Vegas was so frustrated, it was comical. I think that's what that team truly is when the chips are down. There are reasons that teams gave up on these guys in the ED.

Agreed to disagree.

 

[VanJack]

Vegas is big, strong and fast and the punish teams on the forecheck. But I question who much skill they really have. A guy like Elias Pettersson would transform that team, because they have nobody remotely in his skill-class.

They're my pick to start fading back in the Western Conference when the NHL schedule gets back to normal. And I agree on Robin Lehner...too much money and too much term for a guy who's bounced around the league. And even though they replaced him with Pietrangelo, I think the Knights are going to miss Nate Schmidt.

Can't wait for the Canucks to get back into the old Pacific Division and start feasting on some of those California teams.

 

[End on a Hinote]

I think it would be fun to try for a season. If Canadian teams only play each other it can give us a feeling of what the NHL would be like if it was an all-Canadian league. Almost like a league within a league.

 

[Canuckle1970]

Once we get back to "normal", I don't want us in a "Canadian" division, thank you very much.

We've been waiting for a true rivalry with Seattle arriving next year, and I want the Canucks to benefit from less, not more, travel. One of the reasons the Canucks did better than expected in the "bubble" playoffs, in my opinion, was the lack of travel time that they normally deal with.

But for this one season, assuming it's a "go", I'm looking forward to the intensity of a Canadian division.

 

[canuckking1]

Hopefully we get to match up with the oilers in a playoff series. Would be a nice inflation forecast Hughes/Petey’s playoff stats.

 

[Rumsfeld]

Man, imagine how sweet it would be to beat the Leafs in round 1. I mean, stomping the Flames or Oilers would be great as well, but when are we going to get a crack at TO in the playoffs again? Probably never.

 

[Takumi3000]

So in case people have forgotten but we have absolutely sucked against Canadian teams such as the Jets, Leafs, and Canadiens in the past few years. We have mostly split against the Oilers and Flames. I don't know if we are just not matched up well against the first 3 teams mentioned or its because we don't play them enough to get a true sample size. Either ways, I don't think its going to be as easy as people think.

 

[canuckking1]

Man, imagine how sweet it would be to beat the Leafs in round 1. I mean, stomping the Flames or Oilers would be great as well, but when are we going to get a crack at TO in the playoffs again? Probably never.

Knocking off the leafs in the playoffs would be glorious.