Post-Game Talk: We're Frauds!!!!

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Not sure what game 6 you watched, but Vegas was better that night and deserved the win.

I watched the game 6 from this reality that many others including MacKinnon thought the Avs outplayed Vegas in and which the numbers support. Which game did you watch?

Avs held Vegas to 23 shots against and put up 33 shots on Fleury, yet you think Vegas outplayed the Avs? How do you outplay a team when you only have 23 shots in a game?

And Vegas blocked 34 Avalanche shots in game 6 on top of the 33 shots the Avs had on net. They even won the Corsi.

Not to mention the expected goals percentage in game 6 was almost as high as game 1.

Avs in Game 6

Shots For - 33
Shots Against - 23
Corsi - 55.96% (61-48)


E3koW5uXwAAEAMN
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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We only played 7 teams, the 2nd best of them were the Minnesota Wild. We won the division, which obviously is a good thing, but this year's Presidents Trophy doesn't mean shit.

Just because it's not the Stanley Cup doesn't mean the President's trophy doesn't mean shit in the context of whether Bednar should be fired or not.

The Avs were the favorites to win the Cup before the season started and they were the favorites once the playoffs started. It's not like they were a fluke to win the President's trophy just because of the division alignment.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Game 6
HDCF%
VGK 55%
COL 45%
CF%
VGK 45%
Col 55%
xGF%
VGK 49%
Col 51%

Game 6 was very close. Basically a toss-up. Now if you look at how badly the Avs were demolished in game 3-5, they don't compare at all to the games we outplayed them. VGK outplayed us in this series more than most of the homers on this board understand or are willing to admit.

FYI these high danger HDCF and HDCA numbers aren't accurate for the games in Vegas. Including game 6. They juiced their stats, possibly intentionally.

This also means the xGF% should be higher. Evolving hockey had it at 57% for the Avs.

Avs had a much bigger advantage in the numbers than what was listed.

 

Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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I watched the game 6 from this reality that many others including MacKinnon thought the Avs outplayed Vegas in and which the numbers support. Which game did you watch?

Avs held Vegas to 23 shots against and put up 33 shots on Fleury, yet you think Vegas outplayed the Avs? How do you outplay a team when you only have 23 shots in a game?

And Vegas blocked 34 Avalanche shots in game 6 on top of the 33 shots the Avs had on net. They even won the Corsi.

Not to mention the expected goals percentage in game 6 was almost as high as game 1.

Avs in Game 6

Shots For - 33
Shots Against - 23
Corsi - 55.96% (61-48)


E3koW5uXwAAEAMN

We were chasing all night and were obviously the most desperate team since we were facing elimination. Yet, it looked like Vegas could score at any moment they wanted/needed.

Even in game 5, where we were the better team for 2 periods, Vegas had no trouble tying the game easily in the third. Like taking candy from a baby.

It was men against boys after game 1.
 

nammerus

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Mar 9, 2003
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We were chasing all night and were obviously the most desperate team since we were facing elimination. Yet, it looked like Vegas could score at any moment they wanted/needed.

Even in game 5, where we were the better team for 2 periods, Vegas had no trouble tying the game easily in the third. Like taking candy from a baby.

It was men against boys after game 1.

Worst of all, it felt inevitable in game 5.

And at no point in game 6 did it feel like the Avs had a chance to win. Grubs just handing out goals number 1 and 4 like candy.
 

Islay1989

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Feb 24, 2020
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Girard has a poor series, but I do find it funny how people sort of hint at getting bigger, when the bigger, tougher to play against players were by far the biggest reason they lost.
 

Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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Girard has a poor series, but I do find it funny how people sort of hint at getting bigger, when the bigger, tougher to play against players were by far the biggest reason they lost.

I would feel a lot better about a Makar-Toews-Girard top 3 if anyone could show me a team that has won a Stanley Cup in the past 20 years with such a small defense.

And Jones is the name most people have suggested as a Girard replacement and i think he is a bit better than Graves/Nemeth.

Another thing we need to consider is that maybe Bednar has something to do with how bad our big guys have played. It's not like Holden/McNab are that much better and you don't see them making that many stupid plays.
 

tucker3434

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We were chasing all night and were obviously the most desperate team since we were facing elimination. Yet, it looked like Vegas could score at any moment they wanted/needed.

Even in game 5, where we were the better team for 2 periods, Vegas had no trouble tying the game easily in the third. Like taking candy from a baby.

It was men against boys after game 1.

The final score was 3-2. They didn’t score the second goal until a turnover in the offenseive zone in third period gave them an odd man break. The mistake doesn’t define the game. It’s hockey. It happens. Games 2 and 5 were almost mirrors of each other.

I feel like some of you guys are just looking for a reason to complain.
 
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Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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The final score was 3-2. They didn’t score the second goal until a turnover in the offenseive zone in third period gave them an odd man break. The mistake doesn’t define the game. It’s hockey. It happens. Games 2 and 5 were almost mirrors of each other.

I feel like some of you guys are just looking for a reason to complain.

Game 6.

And in game 5 three mistakes defined that game.
 

klozge

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Jul 19, 2009
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Just because it's not the Stanley Cup doesn't mean the President's trophy doesn't mean shit in the context of whether Bednar should be fired or not.

The Avs were the favorites to win the Cup before the season started and they were the favorites once the playoffs started. It's not like they were a fluke to win the President's trophy just because of the division alignment.
Your confusing Sakic's work and Bednar's work. And again, the Presidents Trophy doesn't mean a thing if you only play a 4th of the whole league.
 

tucker3434

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Game 6.

And in game 5 three mistakes defined that game.

In game 2, MAF’s atrocious first goal defined that game. Interestingly enough, it was almost the exact same in game 6 but the reverse. Then later they had a tip-in goal that came literally as the commentators were talking about how the Avs had the momentum. It’s a game of inches.

As far as I’m concerned, this series wasn’t that far off of my expectation. When you play great teams, you have to be opportunistic. Vegas was more opportunistic than us in this one. Yes, some issues need to be addressed in the off-season, but there’s no need to be dramatic about it. If Rantanen doesn’t fan on a wide open net in game 3, we’re likely talking about Vegas getting “dominated” right now.
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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I would feel a lot better about a Makar-Toews-Girard top 3 if anyone could show me a team that has won a Stanley Cup in the past 20 years with such a small defense.

And Jones is the name most people have suggested as a Girard replacement and i think he is a bit better than Graves/Nemeth.

Another thing we need to consider is that maybe Bednar has something to do with how bad our big guys have played. It's not like Holden/McNab are that much better and you don't see them making that many stupid plays.

Chicago's defense was relatively small during their cup runs. They may have an edge slightly in height over the Avs, but a lot of their defensemen were in the 190-200 lbs. range. Graves and Nemeth are larger than the Hawks biggest defenseman during that period of time (Seabrook). I am not arguing that you are not right and that the Avs do need to adjust the size on its blue line, but just pointing that out.

I watched Montreal last night and the Habs were seemingly able to battle more effectively than the Avs did over the last few games of the series, even with some of Montreal's smaller players.

I think that the Avs need to acquire some more size and grit in its overall lineup, but more seemed to be going on with the Avs.
 
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missionAvs

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Haven't been posting since we got eliminated but man, this year is hitting me harder than ever watching the playoffs continue without this team. We literally had a 2-0 series lead and managed to f*** it up. What a failure of a season. I hope Sleepy Joe is ready to do some work ala the Bolts after their sweep against the Jackets.
 
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henchman21

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Isn't this exactly what you mentioned Avs shouldn't do in comparison to doubling down? Even the Blackhawks had Bickell, Buff, and Shaw as the agitators and they were quite effective. Wood would be one of those blokes we clearly lack and should move towards to for the bottom 6 as an insulator.

I think the Avs are in a different situation than Tampa was, but I probably wasn't clear. Tampa already had some snarl and had the size on defense. The reinforced the third line to make it a strength, added snarl in Maroon and Scheen... then added puck movement in Shatty to lower reliance on Serg. I don't mind if the Avs add some snarl, they just shouldn't escape their identity.
 

NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS

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Feb 28, 2006
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Chicago's defense was relatively small during their cup runs. They may have an edge slightly in height over the Avs, but a lot of their defensemen were in the 190-200 lbs. range. Graves and Nemeth are larger than the Hawks biggest defenseman during that period of time (Seabrook). I am not arguing that you are not right and that the Avs do need to adjust the size on its blue line, but just pointing that out.

I watched Montreal last night and the Habs were seemingly able to battle more effectively than the Avs did over the last few games of the series, even with some of Montreal's smaller players.

I think that the Avs need to acquire some more size and grit in its overall lineup, but more seemed to be going on with the Avs.

Hammer Seabrook and Keith are not easy guys to play against. Don't remember all of the lower pairing guys but those 3 anchored the Chicago D. Not only size but how they play the game.

You hit Keith up high and he'll skate half the ice and throw a leaping elbow at a Sedin. And he's their skill guy on the blueline.

If you take the puck into the corners against the Avs defenders you don't even need to be wearing shoulder pads. The guy most likely to hit you is Nemeth. And that's only if you stand still for the full 5 seconds it takes Nemeth to realize you have the puck and to catch you.

Graves in his first few games was extremely effective and physical and aggressive. Perfect bottom pair guy. Whether its Bednar or the defensive coach they don't want these guys playing physical.

Same thing with our forwards on the forecheck. For 4 games they didn't lay a single hit on the Vegas defense. Then suddenly in game 5 they started playing much more aggressively and they stopped getting blown out in the fancy stats and on the scoreboard. Even little Sammy threw a hit on Pie and forced a turnover.

Heavy physical hockey isn't just a playoffs thing. Vegas tied the Avs for points. The Islanders and Bruins are near the tops each season. It works when you have the skill to back it up.

That's why the Avs look so much better when guys like Calvert and EJ are in the lineup. That physical presence and energy they bring infects the whole roster and helps set the tone each game.

St Louis has lots of hitters but Landy set the tone early in the first two games and the Avs didn't get pushed around much.

As much as the Avs need a big guy who can actually play they need an attitude adjustment. Byram has that snarl to his game but he's a rookie coming into a pretty established locker room. Its up to the leaders MacK and Landeskog to lead by example and play with a more responsible game into of practicing their pouty faces.
 

RockLobster

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I have a feeling we see a major change this off-season. Joe watching Vegas role is gonna want to make some tweaks to get them to play a similar game.

The difference between Colorado's identity and Vegas' identity is not "some tweaks". If Joe wants the team to play a similar game, there will have to be a pretty hard change in roster building philosophy.
 

letsgoavs1921

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
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I don't think Vegas was clearly the better team. I think they're both very even teams but Vegas made fewer mistakes and did what they had to win.

They did more than the Avs did to deserve to win but I don't think that makes them a clear cut better team if at all. If you get outplayed the last two games of a series but win because the other team gave it away, that doesn't make you a significantly better team.

A few mistakes can be the difference in a series but it doesn't mean this Avalanche team is broken and they need to make a bunch of changes because there's something wrong with the team or the culture or the leadership or the coaching or something else.

Somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. This year Vegas won and the Avs lost. Next year might have the opposite results and the year after that may change again. Hell they could play next week with the same groups and it could have an opposite result.
Again, stop with the perspective. Panic!!
 

The Abusement Park

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I think the Avs are in a different situation than Tampa was, but I probably wasn't clear. Tampa already had some snarl and had the size on defense. The reinforced the third line to make it a strength, added snarl in Maroon and Scheen... then added puck movement in Shatty to lower reliance on Serg. I don't mind if the Avs add some snarl, they just shouldn't escape their identity.
Miles Wood pls.
 
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