Post-Game Talk: We're Frauds!!!!

[tucker3434]

The difference between Colorado's identity and Vegas' identity is not "some tweaks". If Joe wants the team to play a similar game, there will have to be a pretty hard change in roster building philosophy.

God I hope not. We'll end up as a jack of all trades, master of none. Our identity is our identity. We outshot Vegas in 3 of 6 with it. We try to beat Vegas at their game, it'll be 0 of 4.

 

[CharlesPuck]

I read your post.

"Major changes" and "some tweaks" don't mean the same thing.

yikes... ok. Way to pick up on the word tweaks and ignore the whole concept of major change to change identity....

 

[dahrougem2]

yikes... ok. Way to pick up on the word tweaks and ignore the whole concept of major change to change identity....

This team does not need a major change to change identity. For the most part, the team is fine.

Get rid of useless players like Graves, Compher, Donskoi, and Jost and jettison Nemeth/Soderberg/Calvert/Bellemare as UFA's and tweak the lineup that way.

Bigger move might involve moving Girard for a different style of defensemen, getting someone to play with Girard or moving out Kadri for an upgrade at 2C.

But do not try to turn this team into Vegas.

 

[missionAvs]

This team does not need a major change to change identity. For the most part, the team is fine.

Get rid of useless players like Graves, Compher, Donskoi, and Jost and jettison Nemeth/Soderberg/Calvert/Bellemare as UFA's and tweak the lineup that way.

Bigger move might involve moving Girard for a different style of defensemen, getting someone to play with Girard or moving out Kadri for an upgrade at 2C.

But do not try to turn this team into Vegas.

Cool with everything here but I've warmed up to Jost and think he's developed into a pretty good depth forward. I'd rather keep him.

 

[tucker3434]

Cool with everything here but I've warmed up to Jost and think he's developed into a pretty good depth forward. I'd rather keep him.

Yep, especially as long as he comes cheap.

 

[dahrougem2]

Cool with everything here but I've warmed up to Jost and think he's developed into a pretty good depth forward. I'd rather keep him.

Yep, especially as long as he comes cheap.

To me, Tyson Jost encompasses everything wrong with this team.

1) He's not good enough offensively to be anything more than a 4th line forward
2) He's too slow to play at our team's preferred pace of play on a consistent basis without getting caved in constantly
3) He's too small to play a true 4th line role the way a guy like Matt Calvert did and push back

I will give the guy credit. He battles his ass off and works extremely hard on the ice, but he is a 4th line forward through and through. If he wants to come back and be the 13th forward for 850K, sure. But if he's looking for any semblance of a raise? Sakic should tell him thanks for your service, go be a UFA.

 

[RockLobster]

yikes... ok. Way to pick up on the word tweaks and ignore the whole concept of major change to change identity....

Nothing to "yikes" at, the two phrases mean two totally different things.

Major changes would be a total change in team identity.

Small tweaks would be...like changing out a player like Graves/Donskoi/JTC for someone with a different skillset but filling the same role.

 

[tucker3434]

To me, Tyson Jost encompasses everything wrong with this team.

1) He's not good enough offensively to be anything more than a 4th line forward
2) He's too slow to play at our team's preferred pace of play on a consistent basis without getting caved in constantly
3) He's too small to play a true 4th line role the way a guy like Matt Calvert did and push back

I will give the guy credit. He battles his ass off and works extremely hard on the ice, but he is a 4th line forward through and through. If he wants to come back and be the 13th forward for 850K, sure. But if he's looking for any semblance of a raise? Sakic should tell him thanks for your service, go be a UFA.

That's giving too much credit/blame to a guy that makes $850k. Yeah, I agree, he doesn't deserve a big raise, but he shouldn't get one either. 25 points pace isn't exactly in line for a huge payday.

 

[dahrougem2]

That's giving too much credit/blame to a guy that makes $850k. Yeah, I agree, he doesn't deserve a big raise, but he shouldn't get one either. 25 points pace isn't exactly in line for a huge payday.

I'm not blaming him for the loss, I'm just saying as a whole he is not a player I want on this team. He doesn't fit our team's identity and he doesn't add any dimension to differentiate that would be positive (size/snarl/pushback/etc).

He seems to be able to kill penalties but can't win a faceoff to save his life when it matters. He seems to be adept defensively but can't generate a thing offensively, and he also gets caved in when playing bigger opponents.

Just not someone I think the Avs should retain.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

This team does not need a major change to change identity. For the most part, the team is fine.

Get rid of useless players like Graves, Compher, Donskoi, and Jost and jettison Nemeth/Soderberg/Calvert/Bellemare as UFA's and tweak the lineup that way.

Bigger move might involve moving Girard for a different style of defensemen, getting someone to play with Girard or moving out Kadri for an upgrade at 2C.

But do not try to turn this team into Vegas.

That's the #4 and #5/6 D

A guy who was playing second line C and third line W (also on the PP1).

The third line C and fourth line C.

That's lots of opportunity to upgrade and change the way the team plays in tight games without changing the core.

But getting good players for those roles at decent cap hits means emptying the cubbard.

Sakic has invested a lot of dollars into guys like JTC Donskoi Bura Graves and EJ who haven't provided much.

 

[The Kingslayer]

This team does not need a major change to change identity. For the most part, the team is fine.

Get rid of useless players like Graves, Compher, Donskoi, and Jost and jettison Nemeth/Soderberg/Calvert/Bellemare as UFA's and tweak the lineup that way.

Bigger move might involve moving Girard for a different style of defensemen, getting someone to play with Girard or moving out Kadri for an upgrade at 2C.

But do not try to turn this team into Vegas.

Give me one of or a combination of Miles Wood, Jamie Oleksiak, JT Miller and Dougie Hamilton. I would actually be happy if we landed one of those guys. If we keep Girard we have to get him a stable partner and if Joe does do that and Girard flounders in the playoffs again you get rid of that guy. No more of this carry Ryan Graves type bullshit anymore. Two seasons now. First Makar had to do it and then Girard. Just saw a highlight of that Reilly Smith goal again. Still don't know why Graves skated to that side of the ice when everyone else was already there.

 

[dahrougem2]

Give me one of or a combination of Miles Wood, Jamie Oleksiak, JT Miller and Dougie Hamilton. I would actually be happy if we landed one of those guys. If we keep Girard we have to get him a stable partner and if Joe does do that and Girard flounders in the playoffs again you get rid of that guy. No more of this carry Ryan Graves type bullshit anymore. Two seasons now. First Makar had to do it and then Girard. Just saw a highlight of that Reilly Smith goal again. Still don't know why Graves skated to that side of the ice when everyone else was already there.

Don't want Dougie Hamilton, we've got enough offensively oriented guys from the back end and he does nothing for me defensively.

**** I'll take Wood and Oleksiak along with Grant/Desulauriers on the 4th line and I'm happy.

 

[CharlesPuck]

Nothing to "yikes" at, the two phrases mean two totally different things.

Major changes would be a total change in team identity.

Small tweaks would be...like changing out a player like Graves/Donskoi/JTC for someone with a different skillset but filling the same role.

YIKES

 

[tucker3434]

I think it's optimistic to hope to upgrade most of those players externally. Burakovsky had kind of a mediocre playoff but a good regular season. At what we pay him, he's good value. Donskoi is another that's just kind of Neutral. He paced for over 40 points. Hoping to replace that at his $4m salary is pretty tough. I guess really you hope to make another Saad trade, somewhere. With Graves likely already on his way to Seattle, I'm not really sure what that'd be.

I think the one big move I'd take a long look at is Girard+ for Jones. I vehemently oppose getting bigger just for the sake of getting bigger, but Jones has tons of skill. Byram, Jones, Toews, and Makar sounds phenomenal if we could make the $$$ work.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I think it's optimistic to hope to upgrade most of those players externally. Burakovsky had kind of a mediocre playoff but a good regular season. At what we pay him, he's good value. Donskoi is another that's just kind of Neutral. He paced for over 40 points. Hoping to replace that at his $4m salary is pretty tough. I guess really you hope to make another Saad trade, somewhere. With Graves likely already on his way to Seattle, I'm not really sure what that'd be.

I think the one big move I'd take a long look at is Girard+ for Jones. I vehemently oppose getting bigger just for the sake of getting bigger, but Jones has tons of skill. Byram, Jones, Toews, and Makar sounds phenomenal if we could make the $$$ work.

Its ok you can say it. He was brutal. 1 goal in 10 games is simply not good enough for secondary scoring. Contrast that with what Vegas second line did and that's why they are playing and the Avs are golfing.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I think it's optimistic to hope to upgrade most of those players externally. Burakovsky had kind of a mediocre playoff but a good regular season. At what we pay him, he's good value. Donskoi is another that's just kind of Neutral. He paced for over 40 points. Hoping to replace that at his $4m salary is pretty tough. I guess really you hope to make another Saad trade, somewhere. With Graves likely already on his way to Seattle, I'm not really sure what that'd be.

I think the one big move I'd take a long look at is Girard+ for Jones. I vehemently oppose getting bigger just for the sake of getting bigger, but Jones has tons of skill. Byram, Jones, Toews, and Makar sounds phenomenal if we could make the $$$ work.

100. Jones can get you the offense you lose with Girard but also give you 25 minutes a night of solid two way hockey. He can kill penalties and play on your PP. He also solves that right side for you in a hurry. Jones had a down year but so did a lot of Jacket players. The team was brutal and obviously tuned out Torts. If there is a way to get Jones here without losing Bo you do it.

 

[The Kingslayer]

To me, Tyson Jost encompasses everything wrong with this team.

1) He's not good enough offensively to be anything more than a 4th line forward
2) He's too slow to play at our team's preferred pace of play on a consistent basis without getting caved in constantly
3) He's too small to play a true 4th line role the way a guy like Matt Calvert did and push back

I will give the guy credit. He battles his ass off and works extremely hard on the ice, but he is a 4th line forward through and through. If he wants to come back and be the 13th forward for 850K, sure. But if he's looking for any semblance of a raise? Sakic should tell him thanks for your service, go be a UFA.

I don't think Joe is getting rid of Jost anytime soon unless Jost wants to price himself out of here or if Seattle takes him. Jost the reason Roy and Joe no longer friends lol.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I don’t really fault Bednar for this because the top pair was the only thing really working on defence, but I wonder if they would’ve been better off putting Graves with Makar.

Makar seemingly gets the most out of Graves and maybe that would’ve brought more balance to the Avs top-6.

 

[willy702]

I don’t really fault Bednar for this because the top pair was the only thing really working on defence, but I wonder if they would’ve been better off putting Graves with Makar.

Makar seemingly gets the most out of Graves and maybe that would’ve brought more balance to the Avs top-6.

I agree 100% with this. I think the playoff Avs need to have three balanced pairs, one guy that ventures forward and one guy that hangs back. The guy that hangs back knows he can't get his shots blocked and be vulnerable like Graves did. Just a matter of knowing your role and getting used to your linemates. People wanted Bednar to mix things up so he changed the lines last two games, but no one asked if maybe that lack of experience playing together might not have been the source of the turnovers that were so costly in those games.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I don’t really fault Bednar for this because the top pair was the only thing really working on defence, but I wonder if they would’ve been better off putting Graves with Makar.

Makar seemingly gets the most out of Graves and maybe that would’ve brought more balance to the Avs top-6.

Probably would have been better but we wont know for sure. Hopefully, we never have to question this again when Ryan Graves is in Seattle.

 

[tucker3434]

Its ok you can say it. He was brutal. 1 goal in 10 games is simply not good enough for secondary scoring. Contrast that with what Vegas second line did and that's why they are playing and the Avs are golfing.

Yeah… but last playoffs he had 17 points in 15 games. I don’t necessarily think it’s a Burakovsky issue, just that with your depth guys, sometimes they’re hot and sometimes they’re not. You just kinda hope they don’t all go cold at the same time.

I mostly blame the top guys for our early exit. Those are the guys you need on the board pretty much every night. They went ice cold in the middle of the series. They started to figure things out towards the end so I’m not too concerned moving forward. But it is going to sit in the back of my mind for all of next season.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah… but last playoffs he had 17 points in 15 games. I don’t necessarily think it’s a Burakovsky issue, just that with your depth guys, sometimes they’re hot and sometimes they’re not. You just kinda hope they don’t all go cold at the same time.

I mostly blame the top guys for our early exit. Those are the guys you need on the board pretty much every night. They went ice cold in the middle of the series. They started to figure things out towards the end so I’m not too concerned moving forward. But it is going to sit in the back of my mind for all of next season.

Trust I blame the top guys(not Mikko) and the shaky goaltending the final 3 games for the exit. It just would have been nice if Bura contributed more offensively and not been a liability defensively. One can argue the turnover in Game 5 was the turning point of that game. I personally feel it was Landeskogs bonehead cross ice attempt but theres an argument that Buras turnover got the Knights going in that game.

 

[Nihiliste]

Jones wants to come here and we could really use another solid D presence that won’t get pushed around in the playoffs. Sakic should get him if he can though Jarmo will ask a kings ransom.

Other than that there are lots of tough decisions to make but they all involve tweaking the depth.

Regarding @henchman24 ’s question, I think you have to double down on our identity because it fits our core players and we can’t and shouldn’t move away from them.

We lost due to center depth and defensive depth. Our bottom 3 Dmen that got caved in by Vegas didn’t fit our identity. Promote Byram, replace Nemeth with a depth guy that can skate, and then make a call on whether you think Timmins is good enough to start at 6D. Ideally he starts at 7 on the depth chart

Center depth, harder to figure out because we really could use upgrades at 2C, 3C, and 4C. Sakic really has his work cut out for him here and limited budget with which to work.

Regarding FAs, I don’t think you can let Gru or Landy walk for nothing from an asset POV. We only have assets to make one major acquisition. Sign them, and then if you can acquire a better option a year or two down the road trade them.

I do think we need to get away from these soft bottom 6ers like Jost, Compher, Donskoi, etc. we can add physicality in the bottom 6 by replacing these guys with guys who are grittier but can still skate. Donskoi is worthless when he’s not streaking. Compher is an overpaid 4RW but we really should have a cheaper and more physical player in that spot. Jost was better this year than years past but he’s not good enough for the top 6, ultimately isn’t really that defensively elite and isn’t big, strong, or fast enough to withstand the physicality of the playoffs. He got destroyed in Vegas

 

[flyfysher]

Yeah… but last playoffs he had 17 points in 15 games. I don’t necessarily think it’s a Burakovsky issue, just that with your depth guys, sometimes they’re hot and sometimes they’re not. You just kinda hope they don’t all go cold at the same time.

I mostly blame the top guys for our early exit. Those are the guys you need on the board pretty much every night. They went ice cold in the middle of the series. They started to figure things out towards the end so I’m not too concerned moving forward. But it is going to sit in the back of my mind for all of next season.

It's Kadri's fault. Not saying Burakovsky would have been on fire as he is definitely a streaky player but you look at past experience and it's clear he's usually good in the POs. But if you take out the second line and allow the VGK to pressure the Avs first line then it's downhill from there. Putting him with Compher at 2C was not a fix. It was just gasoline on the dumpster fire and expecting Burakovsky to lead that line isn't realistic.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Jones wants to come here and we could really use another solid D presence that won’t get pushed around in the playoffs. Sakic should get him if he can though Jarmo will ask a kings ransom.

Other than that there are lots of tough decisions to make but they all involve tweaking the depth.

Regarding @henchman24 ’s question, I think you have to double down on our identity because it fits our core players and we can’t and shouldn’t move away from them.

We lost due to center depth and defensive depth. Our bottom 3 Dmen that got caved in by Vegas didn’t fit our identity. Promote Byram, replace Nemeth with a depth guy that can skate, and then make a call on whether you think Timmins is good enough to start at 6D. Ideally he starts at 7 on the depth chart

Center depth, harder to figure out because we really could use upgrades at 2C, 3C, and 4C. Sakic really has his work cut out for him here and limited budget with which to work.

Regarding FAs, I don’t think you can let Gru or Landy walk for nothing from an asset POV. We only have assets to make one major acquisition. Sign them, and then if you can acquire a better option a year or two down the road trade them.

I do think we need to get away from these soft bottom 6ers like Jost, Compher, Donskoi, etc. we can add physicality in the bottom 6 by replacing these guys with guys who are grittier but can still skate

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