Post-Game Talk: We're Frauds!!!!

letsgoavs1921

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Jul 26, 2006
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Fair enough. I strongly disagree and believe that series exposed some structural deficiencies on the Avs.
Ya not me. If we had lost to a team like the Blues or someone yes. This was the two best teams in the league and when push came to shove in a best of 3 we played pretty well. Had a couple turnovers and our goalie went 0-8 on saving us in those instances

Their's made the save most of the time

Night night
 

Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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If that's your definition of "outplayed badly" how would you describe games 3 and 4? :laugh:

The deserve-to-win-o-meter from Moneypuck doesn't lie: when the Avs were the better team it was close (game 1) to pretty damn close (game 5 and 6)

When Vegas were the better team the stats were straight out embarassing. Nothing remotely close...in fact that level of domination is unmatched so far in the 2021 playoffs. No other team got spanked as hard as us.

I would compare them to games 3 and 4 against Minnesota in the 2013-2014 playoffs.
 

ItsFineImFine

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Aug 11, 2019
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Ya not me. If we had lost to a team like the Blues or someone yes. This was the two best teams in the league and when push came to shove in a best of 3 we played pretty well. Had a couple turnovers and our goalie went 0-8 on saving us in those instance.

We got outplayed 3 games in a row (one of which that goalie you're criticizing stole for us and a 2nd he almost stole for us until we gave up a lead late).

You then mention the "two best teams in the league." I'm sorry man but if we're tied for them in points and they play so much better than us in a playoff series when they actually show up then we're not one of the two best teams in the league unless you think NYI or Bos or Tampa would get as badly outplayed by Vegas as us which I doubt. In fact I'm not even sure if Mtl will get as badly outplayed as us even if Mtl gets swept because Mtl has something called team defence.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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We got outplayed 3 games in a row (one of which that goalie you're criticizing stole for us and a 2nd he almost stole for us until we gave up a lead late).

You then mention the "two best teams in the league." I'm sorry man but if we're tied for them in points and they play so much better than us in a playoff series when they actually show up then we're not one of the two best teams in the league unless you think NYI or Bos or Tampa would get as badly outplayed by Vegas as us which I doubt. In fact I'm not even sure if Mtl will get as badly outplayed as us even if Mtl gets swept because Mtl has something called team defence.

Avs outplayed Vegas in 3 of the 6 games including the last two.
 

nammerus

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Mar 9, 2003
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Avs outplayed Vegas in 3 of the 6 games including the last two.

Game 6
HDCF%
VGK 55%
COL 45%
CF%
VGK 45%
Col 55%
xGF%
VGK 49%
Col 51%

Game 6 was very close. Basically a toss-up. Now if you look at how badly the Avs were demolished in game 3-5, they don't compare at all to the games we outplayed them. VGK outplayed us in this series more than most of the homers on this board understand or are willing to admit.
 
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letsgoavs1921

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Jul 26, 2006
725
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We got outplayed 3 games in a row (one of which that goalie you're criticizing stole for us and a 2nd he almost stole for us until we gave up a lead late).

You then mention the "two best teams in the league." I'm sorry man but if we're tied for them in points and they play so much better than us in a playoff series when they actually show up then we're not one of the two best teams in the league unless you think NYI or Bos or Tampa would get as badly outplayed by Vegas as us which I doubt. In fact I'm not even sure if Mtl will get as badly outplayed as us even if Mtl gets swept because Mtl has something called team defence.
You guys can keep saying they played so much better than us over the course of the series. They didn’t. We each outplayed each other in 3 games. If Grubauer plays well enough for us to win one of them we end up in a 7 game series which is what we all should have expected when it started.
 

letsgoavs1921

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
725
360
Game 6
HDCF%
VGK 55%
COL 45%
CF%
VGK 45%
Col 55%
xGF%
VGK 49%
Col 51%

Game 6 was very close. Basically a toss-up. Now if you look at how badly the Avs were demolished in game 3-5, they don't compare at all to the games we outplayed them. VGK outplayed us in this series more than most of the homers on this board understand or are willing to admit.
Don’t discount the fact that the refs called two penalties on Vegas in 4 games after DeBooer complained. And I don’t want to hear they didn’t call much on us either. Our PP was 40% in the playoffs so not having any ever was a big deal
 

letsgoavs1921

Registered User
Jul 26, 2006
725
360
Game 6
HDCF%
VGK 55%
COL 45%
CF%
VGK 45%
Col 55%
xGF%
VGK 49%
Col 51%

Game 6 was very close. Basically a toss-up. Now if you look at how badly the Avs were demolished in game 3-5, they don't compare at all to the games we outplayed them. VGK outplayed us in this series more than most of the homers on this board understand or are willing to admit.
Nobody is saying we clearly outplayed them. What I’m saying is these teams are the two best. Dead even. Series was even. They won 4 due to getting better goaltending, and refs deciding the last 4 games were going to be 5 on 5 for 94% of each game
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,423
31,717
Game 6
HDCF%
VGK 55%
COL 45%
CF%
VGK 45%
Col 55%
xGF%
VGK 49%
Col 51%

Game 6 was very close. Basically a toss-up. Now if you look at how badly the Avs were demolished in game 3-5, they don't compare at all to the games we outplayed them. VGK outplayed us in this series more than most of the homers on this board understand or are willing to admit.

It doesn't matter that Vegas outplayed the Avs more in their games than the Avs did. They still outplayed them. But that doesn't fit with your "iT wAs A dIsAsTeR! tHe WhOlE tEaM sUcKs!:scared:" narrative.

You're just looking for a reason to bash the Avs from your couch and now you're tossing around this homer BS.

The Avs clearly outplayed Vegas in game 6. It wasn't the nail biter you're making it out to be. They just gave it away with mistakes like they did game 5.
 

Iceberg

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May 4, 2002
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We lost 4 in a row, Vegas was clearly the better team. There are no moral victories.

Now, while our tinny defense won't win us a Stanley Cup, we'll have fun for the most part of 82 games. Let's appreciate that, alright? I bet 25 other fanbases would trade places with us.
 
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Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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We lost 4 in a row, Vegas was clearly the better team. There are no moral victories.

Now, while our tinny defense won't win us a Stanley Cup, we'll have fun for the most part of 82 games. Let's appreciate that, alright? I bet 25 other fanbases would trade places with us.

I don't think Vegas was clearly the better team. I think they're both very even teams but Vegas made fewer mistakes and did what they had to win.

They did more than the Avs did to deserve to win but I don't think that makes them a clear cut better team if at all. If you get outplayed the last two games of a series but win because the other team gave it away, that doesn't make you a significantly better team.

A few mistakes can be the difference in a series but it doesn't mean this Avalanche team is broken and they need to make a bunch of changes because there's something wrong with the team or the culture or the leadership or the coaching or something else.

Somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. This year Vegas won and the Avs lost. Next year might have the opposite results and the year after that may change again. Hell they could play next week with the same groups and it could have an opposite result.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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We were out coached and out played. Hell we were out GMd for sure. Trade deadline deals actually made us worse

People keep saying this. How was Bednar out coached in games 5 and 6?

These narratives just stick around here so easily if they're repeated often enough. Doesn't matter if the evidence is to the contrary or not.
 

PowerMac

Registered User
Dec 20, 2019
629
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People keep saying this. How was Bednar out coached in games 5 and 6?

These narratives just stick around here so easily if they're repeated often enough. Doesn't matter if the evidence is to the contrary or not.
What adjustments did Bednar make for games 5 and 6?
 

Iceberg

Registered User
May 4, 2002
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Not sure what game 6 you watched, but Vegas was better that night and deserved the win.
 

Hornstar

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Feb 3, 2018
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People keep saying this. How was Bednar out coached in games 5 and 6?

These narratives just stick around here so easily if they're repeated often enough. Doesn't matter if the evidence is to the contrary or not.
You think Bednar couldn’t have made better adjustments? Out coached and not that hard to see
 

S E P H

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Mar 5, 2010
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Here's the thing and this is why I am still beyond upset. I have no problem that we lost, nothing is guaranteed when you're playing a team as good as you are and is built as one of your biggest weaknesses against your club. I am beyond pissed off and I admit I am surprised not more people are is the way the Avs lost. Game 1 was a fluke, so we can throw that out. Game 2 was Vegas showing up after the beatdown, which could've been a "poke the bear" moment. The same media - that we absolutely hate for over-hyping us - pretty much went to Trump-esque scale of craziness and that (to me) made Vegas wake up. I do think adjustments made a big difference, but mentally Vegas came from a game 7 and seemed that they had something to prove to the hockey world. Avs at a really low momentum level never really adjusted to the Vegas gameplan on a player to player basis. They were always behind on the foot and it showed how the Knights were able to win four straight (again this is inexcusable). Grubauer kept us in the game and Avs were able to score timely goals to get the undeserved win.

Now in game 3 and 4 you're going to a crazy raucous crowd, which Vegas has been absolutely stellar in and that even makes it more difficult even if you're playing with a positive handicap. I am fine with being the inferior club of the two in a very tough arena to win, but Avs didn't even show up. I would give them benefit of the doubt and have a much more optimistic outlook if Vegas didn't outshoot and outscore the Avs almost two-to-one. Grubauer once again did his best in game 3 by keeping us in it, especially considering we had the lead which Avs deservedly lost and then the tyres fell off for everyone in game 4. Fine the series is back at 0-0 and Avs need to reset, they do just that in game 5 yet stupid defensive errors by everyone allowed Vegas to take a stranglehold on the series. Avs came into game 6 with confidence and even though Grubauer let in the second worst goal in the playoffs after Neddy's, I thought he looked fine after that goal. What killed the team was the late goal to give Vegas the 3-2 lead and it is ridiculous how many goals they scored off of faceoffs or in this case off the backboard (Got two against the Habs as well tonight). Avs had so many effing leads and blew every single one of them, which is unacceptable. It shows that the team got overconfidence, didn't rise to the level of desperation of the opponent, or were not able to handle the pressure which eventually gave way. In the case of the Avs, it was all three aspects; the team full on well bought into the media hype, they didn't have any adversity to face (which VGK did in their series against the Wild), and majority of the goals Knights scored in game 6 came off MULTIPLE failed clear attempts that went in the back of the net at key moments.

Maybe I am just burned out at these failures, but I can't handle the same mistakes they did against Vegas, which happened against Minnesota and Dallas in game 7. OT in a game 7 is just fluke where it can go either way, but lets face the facts that Avs have not only blown multiple leads against Wild in game 7 they were in full control of, they effin' did the same thing against a Stars team who was NEVER good, and now the same weaknesses against the Knights. That's the same mistakes on repeat and expecting different results. That right there is why I can't trust this squad of players anymore because the core team experienced that same failure barring Toews and some others...yet keeps repeating them.

They heavily rely on defensemen that can break up the play. The Columbus sweep was their big failure, and they did two main things... changed up their bottom 6 to be more physical (Maroon in the summer then Goodrow and Coleman at the deadline), then added puck movement to the defense (Shattenkirk). They also kept playing the Hedman rotation on RD trying to find that right guy... Rutta, Schenn, and Bogosian. To this day they are still playing that card and trying to figure that out. Cap issues have made them lose the puck movement on the back, so they doubled down on trying to find the RD for Hedman... which hasn't really worked yet. With that, they tweaked back more to the norm up front.
Isn't this exactly what you mentioned Avs shouldn't do in comparison to doubling down? Even the Blackhawks had Bickell, Buff, and Shaw as the agitators and they were quite effective. Wood would be one of those blokes we clearly lack and should move towards to for the bottom 6 as an insulator.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,131
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Toruń, PL
People keep saying this. How was Bednar out coached in games 5 and 6?

These narratives just stick around here so easily if they're repeated often enough. Doesn't matter if the evidence is to the contrary or not.
It's not really the tactics or anything like that, it's more like you have a player who has been an effin disaster to this point He's a -3 on every single Vegas goal and being a main reason why they scored yet you keep playing him. I am fine if Bednar played Girard like 28 minutes in game 7, but sometimes you have to cut players who clearly are not performing at a passable level. Graves sucks so much, but I would've played him in Girard's spot in game 6 that was how bad Samuel played. Think about it, if Zadorov played like Girard in game 6 under Bednar, he would've been sent to an actual gulag after that game.
 

Colorado Avalanche

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SEPH, I definitely see similarities to our earlier playoff losses. Dallas, Minnesota series we should have won by all means but choked those away.

This one hurts the most though, because I thought we were capable of winning it all. Not the precious two times. This was it..
 
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Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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It's not really the tactics or anything like that, it's more like you have a player who has been an effin disaster to this point He's a -3 on every single Vegas goal and being a main reason why they scored yet you keep playing him. I am fine if Bednar played Girard like 28 minutes in game 7, but sometimes you have to cut players who clearly are not performing at a passable level. Graves sucks so much, but I would've played him in Girard's spot in game 6 that was how bad Samuel played. Think about it, if Zadorov played like Girard in game 6 under Bednar, he would've been sent to an actual gulag after that game.

I don't disagree with you on the lineup decisions, specifically Nemeth/Graves over Byram, but I know you've been watching hockey a long time SEPH. You don't fire a coach based on lineup decisions. And questionable lineup decisions aren't the same as being "outcoached."

Every team's fanbase hates their coaches lineup decisions. Remember how Wings fans felt about Scotty Bowman's lineup decisions? They complained about them all the time. Even when he was bringing them Stanley Cups and they all knew he was the goat.

We've all complained about the lineup decisions from Avalanche coaches every single year. It's just one of those things about being a fan of a sports team. But most of those times the coach didn't coach the Avs to a Presidents trophy.

Only three coaches have coached the Avs to a Presidents trophy. Crawford in 97 the year after they won the Cup. Hartley in 2001 the year they won their second Cup. And Bednar this year with a team that should have won the Cup, if they didn't make so many costly turnovers.
 

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