Well, now that the rebuild is over...

[waltdetroit]

Kinda like 2006 when Yzerman was in his last playoff year. In his early 40s, he was one of the best skaters Detroit had on the ice...

I beg to differ' Stevie Y had undergone some special surgery in Europe. He didn't have anything left in his knees and was not even an average skater the last couple years that he played. He really gutted it out.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I beg to differ' Stevie Y had undergone some special surgery in Europe. He didn't have anything left in his knees and was not even an average skater the last couple years that he played. He really gutted it out.

I was speaking more in the sense of the Calgary series before he took the puck in the face. He was driving play all over the ice because he’s Stevie Y and that’s what Stevie Y do... even when he’s obviously laboring.

When I said he was “one of the best players on the ice” it was because people were deferring to him even then because he was The Captain and still had elite skill even if other guys with elite skill were there

 

[Winger98]

I beg to differ' Stevie Y had undergone some special surgery in Europe. He didn't have anything left in his knees and was not even an average skater the last couple years that he played. He really gutted it out.

an osteotomy in his knee, iirc. I think they cut a chunk out of the top of the lower leg bone to change where his knee "connected" and put its stress on. I have to think it helped him in his day-to-day because it seemed like a pretty extreme procedure for a guy so clearly on the tail end of his career.

What I remember of Yzerman at that time, he still got around the ice pretty well, but he didn't have near the strength he used and was easier to knock off the puck or just knock down in general. Guy was a warrior, though.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

an osteotomy in his knee, iirc. I think they cut a chunk out of the top of the lower leg bone to change where his knee "connected" and put its stress on. I have to think it helped him in his day-to-day because it seemed like a pretty extreme procedure for a guy so clearly on the tail end of his career.

What I remember of Yzerman at that time, he still got around the ice pretty well, but he didn't have near the strength he used and was easier to knock off the puck or just knock down in general. Guy was a warrior, though.

Yeah and he really was one of our best players in that Edmonton series. That was just awful the way that unfolded with Legacy. Watching him disappear into that tunnel knowing it was it for Yzerman and that he had tried to carry us one last time but couldn't... It wasn't really the ending you would predict for him. I didn't expect him too but you had to believe you had seen it so many times I really thought right up until the end he was going to will them by Edmonton and they would settle into a run. There was always a belief he would find a way there towards the end, that whatever moment we needed he could provide be it the speech in Vancouver or whatever big goal we needed. That was part of the appeal of Yzerman even as his game started to fade. You felt like he could always deliver if he needed to.

 

[vladdy16]

True, but their perception and reality may be two separate facts. Much of it depends on what is their end point of a rebuild.

For sure. I can't speak for the very top of the organization, as I will probably always have my suspicions about their contributions and intentions.

But from a hockey front office standpoint, saying this years draft, combined with Rasmussen and Cholowski and Larkins etc value holding up so well so far, has accelerated the rebuild into phase 2 earlier than expected, is something that I would be concerned if the team wasnt acknowledging.

 

[waltdetroit]

I was speaking more in the sense of the Calgary series before he took the puck in the face. He was driving play all over the ice because he’s Stevie Y and that’s what Stevie Y do... even when he’s obviously laboring.

When I said he was “one of the best players on the ice” it was because people were deferring to him even then because he was The Captain and still had elite skill even if other guys with elite skill were there

Yes when the Yman was on, he could drive the play. Obviously I thought you were writing about his skating ability

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yes when the Yman was on, he could drive the play. Obviously I thought you were writing about his skating ability

And that spoke to why I thought a bump would come after Stevie Y left (because you wouldn't have guys like Z slowing their game down in respect to Steve's ability to drive the play.

Same deal this time. I think with Z retiring, you can run out a Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi line and just say, forecheck to your hearts content guys. Use the hell out of your speed. The Wings should have one of the fastest rosters in the NHL with some of the component parts they have. Maybe as Z and Kronner's broken bodies can have a rest, the team as a whole can pick up the pace. Not that they aren't fantastic players, but the Wings might be able to change their strategy now.

 

[waltdetroit]

And that spoke to why I thought a bump would come after Stevie Y left (because you wouldn't have guys like Z slowing their game down in respect to Steve's ability to drive the play.

Same deal this time. I think with Z retiring, you can run out a Mantha-Larkin-Bertuzzi line and just say, forecheck to your hearts content guys. Use the hell out of your speed. The Wings should have one of the fastest rosters in the NHL with some of the component parts they have. Maybe as Z and Kronner's broken bodies can have a rest, the team as a whole can pick up the pace. Not that they aren't fantastic players, but the Wings might be able to change their strategy now.

Agree...next man up

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

 

[Ezekial]

(sorry for the emoji only post, it's all I got for this one)

 

[Pavels Dog]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

Helm has 3 years left.

 

[Shaman464]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

This is a really tired line of argument. None of these contracts are that bad anymore. None of them stop Detroit from having cap flexibility starting really next season and there on out (barring major over payments of other roleplayers). The only reason these should be brought up anymore is because of the precedence they set, based on percentage of cap space each deal was at the time of signing. They aren't bad now that the cap has caught up, but they all were initially poor deals. But bringing them up as somehow anchors around Detroit's neck is a nonstarter.

 

[Henkka]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

Not really. Our big payday contracts for the next generation will happen years after those deals are gone.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not really. Our big payday contracts for the next generation will happen years after those deals are gone.

If Zadina, Ras, Hronek etc. have amazing ELC years and we contend for the cup within 2-3 years we might have minor cap issues when they all get their first RFA deal.

 

[kliq]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

Like the others said Jonas, these shouldn't effect us moving forward.

 

[Henkka]

If Zadina, Ras, Hronek etc. have amazing ELC years and we contend for the cup within 2-3 years we might have minor cap issues when they all get their first RFA deal.

Big IF.

I see it more as how our 2019 1st round pick is still on cheap ELC when Dekeyser akd Nielsen contracts will end and make room for extension, and how our 2020 1st round pick is still on cheap ELC when Abdelkader contract will free room.

Just like Helm contract is gone and Franzen caphit away when Zadina, Cholowski and Rasmussen need raises.

Time will solve everything out.

 

[SCD]

But from a hockey front office standpoint, saying this years draft, combined with Rasmussen and Cholowski and Larkins etc value holding up so well so far, has accelerated the rebuild into phase 2 earlier than expected, is something that I would be concerned if the team wasnt acknowledging.

The rebuilding process and success are not the same. The organization is drafting kids, most of whom will take two to five years to develop.

Most people agree that Detroit did very well in this draft at restocking prospects, not NHL players. We may hit rock bottom this year or next, but that will further enhance our prospect pool and further move the rebuild down the road to be successful. So, yes this draft has accelerated the rebuild.

 

[jkutswings]

Time will solve everything out.

Correction: Time will solve everything out...pending greater financial prudence going forward.

I like the Larkin deal, and love the Mantha deal, so I'm more hopeful than before, but there's a very long history of over-signing vets that I'm not going to automatically assume has completely turned a corner. Fingers crossed that they're rebuilding the roster in a financial sense as well.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

Helm only has 3 years left? But i agree with the rest they're brutal.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

A vast majority of these contracts will be gone, By the time that Zadina, Rasmussen and Hronek need new deals. Or at least most of these contract can be movable by then.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Correction: Time will solve everything out...pending greater financial prudence going forward.

I like the Larkin deal, and love the Mantha deal, so I'm more hopeful than before, but there's a very long history of over-signing vets that I'm not going to automatically assume has completely turned a corner. Fingers crossed that they're rebuilding the roster in a financial sense as well.

They've never been in a particularly dire cap situation, and they've always had their contracts sequenced such that ~10+ million was coming off the books in a given year. Nyquist, Vanek, Howard, Kronwall. Then Green, Ericsson, Daley. Then Z and Helm. Then DK and Nielsen. Then Larkin and Abdelkader.

When they've got 10 mil in UFA contracts expiring every year, year after year after year, it begins to look less like chance and more like a systematic approach to how the organization sets up their payables. The issue here has never been whether or not Detroit would have the cap space to be good, it was whether they'd have the players to be good. If they needed to make 10 mil in cap space to land an MVP right now and doing so would make them a legit contender they could do it by packing off Z and Franzen's contracts with a couple assets to cheap teams.

That player isn't available, so that the cap flexibility exists for them to do so isn't important. That doesn't mean the flexibility isn't there.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

A vast majority of these contracts will be gone, By the time that Zadina, Rasmussen and Hronek need new deals. Or at least most of these contract can be movable by then.

Those contracts are not like a fine wine. They don't get any better with age. Nobody is trading for them.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Those contracts are not like a fine wine. They don't get any better with age. Nobody is trading for them.

DeKeyser's might with retention, He'll still only be 32 years old when his contract ends. But the others i agree with what you're saying.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Four Or More Years Remaining
Justin Abdelkader ($4.25MM through 2023)
Danny DeKeyser ($5MM through 2021-22)
Frans Nielsen ($5.25MM through 2021-22)
Darren Helm ($3.85MM through 2020-21)
These contracts are brutal and will keep us in the basement unless Holland finds a sucker

Enh. Lots of teams have bad contracts and are very very competitive because cap value happens on a spectrum. You can have some stinkers if you have some great deals. As an aside, for as much as they get lambasted if they play like they did last year the Abdelkader and Helm deals aren't even that terrible. They were overpaid by maybe a mil each last year based on cap value to performance, but a net 2 mil ish drag on a 80 mil cap isn't something that's dreadfully worrisome.

If they both play like they did 2 years ago, it's an abomination.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Enh. Lots of teams have bad contracts and are very very competitive because cap value happens on a spectrum. You can have some stinkers if you have some great deals. As an aside, for as much as they get lambasted if they play like they did last year the Abdelkader and Helm deals aren't even that terrible. They were overpaid by maybe a mil each last year based on cap value to performance, but a net 2 mil ish drag on a 80 mil cap isn't something that's dreadfully worrisome.

If they both play like they did 2 years ago, it's an abomination.

Yeah it's not like Helm and Abby playing like 3 million dollar players is gonna kill us if Zadina, Hronek, Hughes and Ras play like 6-10 million dollar players. Can't expect an entire roster to be underpaid.