Well, now that the rebuild is over...

[kliq]

Top 5-ish draft picks being integral to teams that won the bulk of the championships since the salary cap was implemented...now has the same degree of precedence as one draft pick falling 3 slots?

Not arguing that....my point is that people will dismiss points that don’t fit their narrative using things like small sample size, but then use the same tactic when trying to push what they believe.

I think that top picks are typically needed, but I don’t think they are a an absulute nessesity (see bruins).

 

[jkutswings]

Not arguing that....my point is that people will dismiss points that don’t fit their narrative using things like small sample size, but then use the same tactic when trying to push what they believe.

I think that top picks are typically needed, but I don’t think they are a an absulute nessesity (see bruins).

Ok, but ultimately I think elite talent is what's needed, and building a roster that good without a single top 5 pick - or trading for one, like Boston did - is borderline impossible.

 

[kliq]

Ok, but ultimately I think elite talent is what's needed, and building a roster that good without a single top 5 pick - or trading for one, like Boston did - is borderline impossible.

They did technically have seguin, but he wasn’t a major contributor. Thomas, Bergeron, and Chara were the core of that team.

Either way, I don’t disagree. The question is really “how many top 5 picks do you need”.

Edmonton has shown that you can have a ton and do nothing, and teams like Boston have shown that you can have hardly any and win. I guess my ultimate point is that being a GM is extremely hard, and finding that perfect point to stop selling assets and start adding talent is not a science.

Are Larkin, Martha, AA, DD, hronek, chowolski, Ras, and Zadina enough to build around? Who knows.

Personally I would wait a year before acquiring talent and try to gain another top 5 pick, that’s just me and maybe I’m wrong.

 

[jkutswings]

They did technically have seguin, but he wasn’t a major contributor. Thomas, Bergeron, and Chara were the core of that team.

Either way, I don’t disagree. The question is really “how many top 5 picks do you need”.

Edmonton has shown that you can have a ton and do nothing, and teams like Boston have shown that you can have hardly any and win. I guess my ultimate point is that being a GM is extremely hard, and finding that perfect point to stop selling assets and start adding talent is not a science.

Are Larkin, Martha, AA, DD, hronek, chowolski, Ras, and Zadina enough to build around? Who knows.

Personally I would wait a year before acquiring talent and try to gain another top 5 pick, that’s just me and maybe I’m wrong.

Fair enough. I meant Nathan Horton, who was 4th in scoring (both regular season and playoffs), but point made.

 

[Bench]

This reaction is kind of ridiculous.

I'll admit, maybe I shouldn't have lied about inventing the Snuggie.

 

[kliq]

Fair enough. I meant Nathan Horton, who was 4th in scoring (both regular season and playoffs), but point made.

Oh wow, I completely forgot about him! That's why you talked about trading for a top 5 pick. Sad story what happened to him.

 

[Outl4w]

What is the rebuild is over because Holland is pulling the ultimate mind**** because he talked JT91 coming here.

 

[RedMenace]

I don't think this team will be improved next year and our division markedly improved in many ways.

Every. Year.

 

[kliq]

I don't care what they say, until the defense is addressed we are only going to get so far. I don't think this team will be improved next year and our division markedly improved in many ways. This team can be better individually and still worse in the standings, that is the season I am hoping for.

Why do you think the division has "markedly improved" as of right now?
Buffalo obviously hit the jackpot, but who else has done anything to improve?

 

[RedMenace]

Why do you two think the division has "markedly improved" as of right now?
Buffalo obviously hit the jackpot, but who else has done anything to improve?

Sorry, that was meant sarcastically; at least one person says that every single season.

 

[kliq]

Sorry, that was meant sarcastically; at least one person says that every single season.

My bad, read it wrong. Fixed it.

 

[Shaman464]

They did technically have seguin, but he wasn’t a major contributor. Thomas, Bergeron, and Chara were the core of that team.

Either way, I don’t disagree. The question is really “how many top 5 picks do you need”.

Edmonton has shown that you can have a ton and do nothing, and teams like Boston have shown that you can have hardly any and win. I guess my ultimate point is that being a GM is extremely hard, and finding that perfect point to stop selling assets and start adding talent is not a science.

Are Larkin, Martha, AA, DD, hronek, chowolski, Ras, and Zadina enough to build around? Who knows.

Personally I would wait a year before acquiring talent and try to gain another top 5 pick, that’s just me and maybe I’m wrong.

The answer is, when AA is a third liner, DD is a 3rd pairing guy, Chowoloski is projected to have a ceiling as a solid second pairing guy, Ras looking like a winger not a center, and Larkin being an amazing 2nd line center, a resounding NO. Detroit needs a center and two defenders before they have a core that can compete.

 

[Oddbob]

I'll try to put into words how I approach my fandom.

I talk armchair GM with an aggressive rebuild approach. Draft the best talent you possibly can. Promote youth quickly, stay away from unnecessary high cost, high term contracts to players over 27.

Once the season starts, I want everyone to have career years, whether it's a bunch of 40 year olds or a bunch of teenagers. I will never root for the Wings to lose. Ever. At the end of the year, if we are sitting bottom 5, I won't be mad though. Because nothing builds up suspense like anticipating the lottery and getting to pick another player like Zadina.

Everything is positive for me once we get down to actual hockey.

I hear ya, but I already miss the day when I didn't have much thought or concern with who we were drafting or where, because we were drafting bottom 5 of the first round, and it didn't matter so much who we got, because we had a fun team to watch and watch win!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Still need to wait and see, Holland has lied about this before.

I think they had a draft to be proud of.

I guess it’s just weird for me because this is usually the type of stuff you let other people say on your behalf. If you say it you put expectations on yourself. Not really sure we are at a point yet where we should be doing that.

"Other people".. such as a talking head on a tv network?

Fox Sports wants a little optimism, but no.. we gotta have constant doom and gloom here.

 

[Heaton]

Fox Sports wants a little optimism, but no.. we gotta have constant doom and gloom here.

Oh please, I think we're falling into the classic trap here where you can get 99 compliments but the one critique is what is focused on. The board has been overly optimistic after the draft, but people take umbrage with an overly fluffy piece that Fox Sports puts out. Who cares. Just like not everyone needs to be as negative or skeptic as some people, not everyone needs to have as much optimism and positivity as others, this isn't a cult, people can have different opinions as they want.

For the record, I have no problem with the Fox Sports piece, I'll still wait and see how these new couple years go and I'll start supporting Holland or whoever is the GM once I see what I expect to see. People seem to forget that I was a Holland apologist from 2007 to 2012ish.

This draft does look like a turning point, but there's more work to do, but enjoy the summer for what it is.

 

[Heaton]

Why do you think the division has "markedly improved" as of right now?
Buffalo obviously hit the jackpot, but who else has done anything to improve?

Perhaps using the word improved wasn't the best choice, but I feel like Florida adding a 30 goal scorer improved their team. Tampa is still Tampa, even if Toronto lost a few pieces (might add some still I guess) they're still better than the Wings, same with Boston. Montreal is a mystery and Ottawa should be terrible. Buffalo, like you said, looks to be better, but they were worse than us last year.

I'm not sure what the Wings did to improve their team, but I also don't really feel like any improvements would be good enough to compete for the playoffs against the team who made the playoffs and those close to a playoff spot.

Though I don't think we're even talking about that.

 

[kliq]

The answer is, when AA is a third liner, DD is a 3rd pairing guy, Chowoloski is projected to have a ceiling as a solid second pairing guy, Ras looking like a winger not a center, and Larkin being an amazing 2nd line center, a resounding NO. Detroit needs a center and two defenders before they have a core that can compete.

I agree that they likely need a few more pieces, but I'd say your assessment skills are bit pessimistic likely likely due to bias. To each their own though.

 

[Frk It]

"Other people".. such as a talking head on a tv network?

Fox Sports wants a little optimism, but no.. we gotta have constant doom and gloom here.

I think there’s a way to do it without putting pressure on yourself is basically all I was saying.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Oh please, I think we're falling into the classic trap here where you can get 99 compliments but the one critique is what is focused on. The board has been overly optimistic after the draft, but people take umbrage with an overly fluffy piece that Fox Sports puts out. Who cares. Just like not everyone needs to be as negative or skeptic as some people, not everyone needs to have as much optimism and positivity as others, this isn't a cult, people can have different opinions as they want.

For the record, I have no problem with the Fox Sports piece, I'll still wait and see how these new couple years go and I'll start supporting Holland or whoever is the GM once I see what I expect to see. People seem to forget that I was a Holland apologist from 2007 to 2012ish.

This draft does look like a turning point, but there's more work to do, but enjoy the summer for what it is.

I just take issue with the way people attribute everything FSD says or people like Khan/HSJ writes as being straight from the mouth of the organization. We can't have a fluff piece about some positive buzz after a strong draft without a thread where people think Holland & Co. think there's no more rebuilding to be done. The fact they even made a move like trading a pick this year for a higher pick next year shows they're thinking looooong term with this rebuild. I believe it was Wright who kinda slipped and said "hopefully we have even more picks next year", again a strong indication that they know they're gonna suck next year. But there's being a bad team with a grim future, or being a bad team with hope. And we may finally be starting to become the latter.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

What's up with Matt Puempel? Former first rounder, 25 y/o, had prob his best season last year. Never seen him play, so not sure if career AHL or if there is a solid change of scenery trade.

I am wondering this a well.

 

[Frk It]

I just take issue with the way people attribute everything FSD says or people like Khan/HSJ writes as being straight from the mouth of the organization.

There have been a bunch of things that have transpired that suggest that to be pretty likely.

We can't have a fluff piece about some positive buzz after a strong draft without a thread where people think Holland & Co. think there's no more rebuilding to be done.

This is an entirely different point, and I can see why that would be frustrating.

 

[newfy]

I could see one more draft like last years putting them over the hump. They already have what should be a top 5 pick in the second round on top of their own. Trade for another first plus their own hopefully top 5 pick and their own second again would be pretty nice.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It is something that they should really be starting to show some life in the next year or two. With how destroyed Kronner is, I think replacing him with an adequate NHL defenseman would be a bump up for the team.

And I really do see the potential for a bounce up with Z heading out the door. Larkin will have to take on more of a leadership and scoring role. And you will have guys like Larkin, Mantha, and Bertuzzi who may have deferred to old man Z in a crunch time because he had such a legacy where them keeping it and plowing through the D might have been a better move. Kinda like 2006 when Yzerman was in his last playoff year. In his early 40s, he was one of the best skaters Detroit had on the ice... on a roster that had beginning of prime Datsyuk, young but developing Z, and others. Where it will be something that a guy like Larkin will know that he's gotta run the damn thing. That a guy like AA could possibly see "I've got a window of opportunity to be a real star now, when before, I wasn't ever gonna outshine Zetterberg. No matter how I worked I wasn't gonna take his minutes".

 

[vladdy16]

I've seen other organizations do it in recent years. Off the top of my head Toronto and the Rangers. As for my expectations, I expect the organization to treat Wings fans like they know hockey.

Wings fans,

We know it's been a difficult stretch as a fan. There will be more difficulties ahead. We've watched legendary players retire, and while this is never easy, it brings new faces into the fold. Champions are not created overnight. We believe the next great generation of Red Wings is with us now. We work tirelessly to assemble a team that is build for the NHL in front of us, not the one behind us. And while these players may not hoist the Cup next year, we hope you'll join us in watching them grow into their new roles as leaders and ambassadors for what Red Wings hockey means. We don't know where the finish line is yet, but we think it's closer today than yesterday. And momentum has a way of getting you there faster than you anticipated.

All my best,

Vice President of Positive but Realistic Press Releases
Dr. Benchworth III, Esq., Lord of Rivendell, Master of his Domain, Creator of the Snuggie, and Assistant to the General Manager

I don't see how that take is counter to the musings by the organization or fsd that the rebuild has turned a corner.

The statement "we believe the next great generation of Red Wings is with us now", would be impossible to make if the rebuild hadn't turned a corner.

 

[SCD]

The statement "we believe the next great generation of Red Wings is with us now", would be impossible to make if the rebuild hadn't turned a corner.

True, but their perception and reality may be two separate facts. Much of it depends on what is their end point of a rebuild.