Pre-Game Talk: Week at the Infirmary (@wpg, @edm, @van)

[Metallo]

The counter point is that one big money move... like a Hall move that the Avs have been rumored around. That immediately creates the need.

Obviously. But money could be sent the other way or in a separate move. A massive move like Hall is also unlikely. Saving on bread crumbs is not cap management.

 

[henchman21]

Obviously. But money could be sent the other way or in a separate move. A massive move like Hall is also unlikely. Saving on bread crumbs is not cap management.

Considering the Avs' have been rumored on big ticket players since the end of last season... it is a lot more likely than you're saying. Salary wise, Hall isn't even all that big... $6m and in the 4s for the reset of the year. Yet, that amount would throw the Avs off currently. The Avs aren't LTIR yet, but they only have 5.1m in current cap space. Projected they are under $4m. Yeah money could be sent out, but money sent out that is a drain on NJ, would simply mean the Avs have to pay more. I know it sounds like peanuts, but saving cap room is a smart play. Especially when you want to contend and add during the season.

 

[Metallo]

Considering the Avs' have been rumored on big ticket players since the end of last season... it is a lot more likely than you're saying. Salary wise, Hall isn't even all that big... $6m and in the 4s for the reset of the year. Yet, that amount would throw the Avs off currently. The Avs aren't LTIR yet, but they only have 5.1m in current cap space. Projected they are under $4m. Yeah money could be sent out, but money sent out that is a drain on NJ, would simply mean the Avs have to pay more. I know it sounds like peanuts, but saving cap room is a smart play. Especially when you want to contend and add during the season.

If they can’t find a 100k$ cap cut without requiring these pennywise moves then they are more incompetent than I expect.

The real reason is that they are cheap. Avs have a track record of that in many departments.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Considering the Avs' have been rumored on big ticket players since the end of last season... it is a lot more likely than you're saying. Salary wise, Hall isn't even all that big... $6m and in the 4s for the reset of the year. Yet, that amount would throw the Avs off currently. The Avs aren't LTIR yet, but they only have 5.1m in current cap space. Projected they are under $4m. Yeah money could be sent out, but money sent out that is a drain on NJ, would simply mean the Avs have to pay more. I know it sounds like peanuts, but saving cap room is a smart play. Especially when you want to contend and add during the season.

Zadorov + Burakovsky could easily be sent to NJ for Hall. That would save enough against the cap moving forward this year. Then this offseason you let Barberio, Connauton, and Wilson walk, and there's all your $$$ you need to resign Hall. In total, you'd gain $11.875 in cap space moving all those guys out.

 

[Balthazar]

Zadorov + Burakovsky could easily be sent to NJ for Hall. That would save enough against the cap moving forward this year. Then this offseason you let Barberio, Connauton, and Wilson walk, and there's all your $$$ you need to resign Hall. In total, you'd gain $11.875 in cap space moving all those guys out.

and then which one of Landy, Makar or Mackinnon is a let go when it's time to renew their contracts?

Considering that Chabot signed for 8M coming off his ELC, it's reasonable to believe that Makar will make in the neighborhood of 9M in just 2 years.

 

[Vaslof]

and then which one of Landy, Makar or Mackinnon is a let go when it's time to renew their contracts?

Considering that Chabot signed for 8M coming off his ELC, it's reasonable to believe that Makar will make in the neighborhood of 9M in just 2 years.

That's a hypothetical question right or should I tell you?

 

[henchman21]

If they can’t find a 100k$ cap cut without requiring these pennywise moves then they are more incompetent than I expect.

The real reason is that they are cheap. Avs have a track record of that in many departments.

It only saved them money on LOC. Connaution doesn't save them a dime by delaying, it only saves them caps space. The Avs are cheap narrative is running a bit thin with paying out Orpik getting bought out to cheapen up grabbing Grubs, Barrie having retention to clear up the deal there, sending Connaution to the minors to keep up Graves, Rants getting over 9m... There are many things here that don't add up with just being cheap.

Zadorov + Burakovsky could easily be sent to NJ for Hall. That would save enough against the cap moving forward this year. Then this offseason you let Barberio, Connauton, and Wilson walk, and there's all your $$$ you need to resign Hall. In total, you'd gain $11.875 in cap space moving all those guys out.

Why would NJ want Bura? Z could be in a deal, but the Avs could just as easily want him for depth to contend. This whole situation is about this year's cap.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If they can’t find a 100k$ cap cut without requiring these pennywise moves then they are more incompetent than I expect.

The real reason is that they are cheap. Avs have a track record of that in many departments.

Really? You're still arguing this? Amazing.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

and then which one of Landy, Makar or Mackinnon is a let go when it's time to renew their contracts?

Considering that Chabot signed for 8M coming off his ELC, it's reasonable to believe that Makar will make in the neighborhood of 9M in just 2 years.

None of them?


We have significant money coming off the books each year the big guys need new deals. Whether it's Landeskogs year(Cole, Calvert, and Bellemare) or Mackinnons year(EJ). We have the cap space to get those guys signed.


Bringing in Hall would have absolutely nothing to do with losing any of the big name guys. They're easy to keep around.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

and then which one of Landy, Makar or Mackinnon is a let go when it's time to renew their contracts?

Considering that Chabot signed for 8M coming off his ELC, it's reasonable to believe that Makar will make in the neighborhood of 9M in just 2 years.

IMO, none of them. You Lose Barrie's $2.75M retention from the trade, Orpick's $1.5M buyout, and probably Nieto's 1.975M after this year too. The following year you lose Cole, PEB, Calvert, Gru, Makar, and Landy's current hits. The year after that you lose Kadri's. That's nearly $41.5M. Plus you'll lose someone in the expansion draft (EJ would be another $6M). The $5M cap hit for G's new deal does kick in and needs to be used against that cap space number, but you should get that back just by the cap going up every year by a few million. There should be more than enough for Hall, Makar, Landy, Gru, and Calvert. And if you're worried about keeping Mack, his UFA year his $6.3M, Donskoi's $3.9M, JTC's $3.5M, and EJ's $6M (if he's still there) all come off. That's $19.7M. Easily enough to keep Mack, and probably JTC and/or Donnie.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The most likely expansions draft casualties IMO will be either Jost or Zadorov. So most likely anywhere from ~3-5M in cap space freed up in the expansion draft as well.


The Avs can easily afford to bring in a 10M player for this team. And it wouldn't even get tricky to maneuver until the Mack deal kicks in.

When that happens, you're gonna need cheap ELC depth in order to stay competitive because we wont be able to afford to pay guys like Calvert and Compher the 3M deals they're earning now. We'll need guys making under 1M for those roles for a couple years.

That's where the importance of good drafting and player development are really going to come into play. If we cant bring along some guys internally for those roles, we wont be contenders beyond this Mack contract.

 

[Metallo]

It only saved them money on LOC. Connaution doesn't save them a dime by delaying, it only saves them caps space. The Avs are cheap narrative is running a bit thin with paying out Orpik getting bought out to cheapen up grabbing Grubs, Barrie having retention to clear up the deal there, sending Connaution to the minors to keep up Graves, Rants getting over 9m... There are many things here that don't add up with just being cheap.



Why would NJ want Bura? Z could be in a deal, but the Avs could just as easily want him for depth to contend. This whole situation is about this year's cap.

I don’t have the numbers but I would be surprised if the hockey operations as a whole are among the priciest.

Some examples historically : we shared a minor league team one year and our minor league system never had a lot of love, we never hire veteran coaches, didn’t have proper goalie coaches for years, I’d be surprised if we are close to the top for scouting expenses, did not participate in rookie camps and tournament for a long time, do the Avs have their own practice rink? (I remember some issues about ices during camp). That is just from the top of my head, others could add to that for sure.

I think things are getting better, after years of cost cutting, but the Avs are not setting the bar either.

 

[Avs_19]

I thought he was injured?

O'Connor had to travel to Edmonton for one practice and then got sent back down. At least he got paid though.

 

[henchman21]

The most likely expansions draft casualties IMO will be either Jost or Zadorov. So most likely anywhere from ~3-5M in cap space freed up in the expansion draft as well.


The Avs can easily afford to bring in a 10M player for this team. And it wouldn't even get tricky to maneuver until the Mack deal kicks in.

When that happens, you're gonna need cheap ELC depth in order to stay competitive because we wont be able to afford to pay guys like Calvert and Compher the 3M deals they're earning now. We'll need guys making under 1M for those roles for a couple years.

That's where the importance of good drafting and player development are really going to come into play. If we cant bring along some guys internally for those roles, we wont be contenders beyond this Mack contract.

This is spot on. Everything upto MacK's next contract is fine. When that happens the Avs will be relying on cheap depth, and for that to be quality, it has to be in-house developed depth. The Calvert/PEB/Donskois of the world won't fit because we will have a number of players on big contracts. Personally, I don't see Z here past this summer, but if he's around for the expansion draft, he could be a guy. More likely I think the Avs dangle Compher.

 

[henchman21]

I thought he was injured?

O'Connor had to travel to Edmonton for one practice and then got sent back down. At least he got paid though.

That is interesting... I don't think he's dressed for the Eagles in 4-5 weeks.

 

[McMetal]

I mean, if you HAVE to throw in a goalie nursing an injury, I suppose it's better to risk re-aggravating Bibeau's injury than Grubi's.

I'll bet even if Edmonton pots seven tomorrow Werner won't get pulled. Tough situation for the kid to be in but that's probably going to be the mandate unless he gets Schiefele-fied during the game.

 

[henchman21]

I don’t have the numbers but I would be surprised if the hockey operations as a whole are among the priciest.

Some examples historically : we shared a minor league team one year and our minor league system never had a lot of love, we never hire veteran coaches, didn’t have proper goalie coaches for years, I’d be surprised if we are close to the top for scouting expenses, did not participate in rookie camps and tournament for a long time, do the Avs have their own practice rink? (I remember some issues about ices during camp). That is just from the top of my head, others could add to that for sure.

I think things are getting better, after years of cost cutting, but the Avs are not setting the bar either.

The Avs now are not the same as the Avs 5 years ago who are not the same as they were a decade ago. There is nothing in the recent ~3 years to signal they a just cheap. I'd argue you could go further back to when Roy/Sakic came aboard, the Avs stopped being cheap. Took a few years to clear out and organize the new stuff, but the cheapness ended there. Roy, while a rookie coach, was one of the most expensive in the league. The scouting staff is right around the league average in size, and I know they are paid more than other staffs that may have more in numbers like Carolina. They have had a rookie camp for a while now and participate in tournaments. They have a dedicated skills coach. They have a skating coach. A full time goalie coach. A new practice facility is in the works. All the things people complained about in 2011 are cured or on that path, yet you're railing on the same things.

 

[Metallo]

The Avs now are not the same as the Avs 5 years ago who are not the same as they were a decade ago. There is nothing in the recent ~3 years to signal they a just cheap. I'd argue you could go further back to when Roy/Sakic came aboard, the Avs stopped being cheap. Took a few years to clear out and organize the new stuff, but the cheapness ended there. Roy, while a rookie coach, was one of the most expensive in the league. The scouting staff is right around the league average in size, and I know they are paid more than other staffs that may have more in numbers like Carolina. They have had a rookie camp for a while now and participate in tournaments. They have a dedicated skills coach. They have a skating coach. A full time goalie coach. A new practice facility is in the works. All the things people complained about in 2011 are cured or on that path, yet you're railing on the same things.

Yay soon will be league average!

How about we try to be the best & classiest org in the league?

Avs have an history of being cheap, therefore they are not getting a pass in my book for this.

 

[oxenfree]

Yay soon will be league average!

How about we try to be the best & classiest org in the league?

Avs have an history of being cheap, therefore they are not getting a pass in my book for this.

 

[Metallo]

Not at all. They have been cheap. So the most likely explanation is that they are cheap in this instance. They may not be cheap 24/7 but they are still plenty of things on which they are cheap. My point as always been that the team should strive to take care of their players the best way possible in order to become a top notch org with a top notch reputation.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not at all. They have been cheap. So the most likely explanation is that they are cheap in this instance. They may not be cheap 24/7 but they are still plenty of things on which they are cheap. My point as always been that the team should strive to take care of their players the best way possible in order to become a top notch org with a top notch reputation.

When you run a business it’s smart to do things that will save you money here and there. It’s very beneficial to have those savings add up over time.

 

[Metallo]

When you run a business it’s smart to do things that will save you money here and there. It’s very beneficial to have those savings add up over time.

You say that like pinching pennies is the best and only way to run a business. It’s not.

Those savings are at best a few 10ths of 1% of the cap. I put more value in building goodwill towards our players. There are other ways, more meaningful ways to manage the cap.

 

[The Kingslayer]

That is interesting... I don't think he's dressed for the Eagles in 4-5 weeks.

Pray to mighty Odin he doesnt see ice as an Av.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Dean Werner, how many goals is edmonton scoring tonight?

 

[ETTHAKING67]

I mean, if you HAVE to throw in a goalie nursing an injury, I suppose it's better to risk re-aggravating Bibeau's injury than Grubi's.

I'll bet even if Edmonton pots seven tomorrow Werner won't get pulled. Tough situation for the kid to be in but that's probably going to be the mandate unless he gets Schiefele-fied during the game.

Like the Canucks did with Michael DiPietro and we thought he was broken for ever