Pre-Game Talk: Week at the Infirmary (@wpg, @edm, @van)

[Metallo]

On both... I don't get the hate that the move gets. It is a smart cap move to always push it after the business day is over. So a player has to take a separate flight and may not get to the arena for a game they were going to be scratched for. NBD...

It’s unbelievably cheap. They could throw a bone to these guys, not act like they are hard pressed against the cap. Plus, you know, have the guys arrive on time, be ready for the game and feel part of the team by travelling with it.

 

[wayninja]

You could just start a post game thread

I'm not touching that with a pole!

 

[Foppa2118]

On both... I don't get the hate that the move gets. It is a smart cap move to always push it after the business day is over. So a player has to take a separate flight and may not get to the arena for a game they were going to be scratched for. NBD...

Until someone gets injured or sick on game day. Which has happened to this team before and they've had to go with shorthanded lineups in games. A couple times I believe. If it's nbd, then why bring them at all?

The Avs have always pinched pennies in weird ways like this. I don't think it's a cap issue. It's the same reason they don't have a big scouting department, and were one of the last teams to employ a full time goalie coach.

 

[atreyuavenged]

I get not calling up guys by a certain time for $ purposes but why not give the guys a heads up so they could make it on time or are they not allowed to leave before a specific time.

 

[henchman21]

It’s unbelievably cheap. They could throw a bone to these guys, not act like they are hard pressed against the cap. Plus, you know, have the guys arrive on time, be ready for the game and feel part of the team by travelling with it.

It is also a business... where little things can add up.

 

[Metallo]

It is also a business... where little things can add up.

Obviously, but it’s a choice that Avs could make to show that they take care of their players. Having such a reputation can make a team more attractive to players and that can be good business.

It’s also a very small amount of money on the overall budget.

 

[Gatorbait19]

It is also a business... where little things can add up.

Little things like $4m in unused cap space this year and $8.5m last year?

 

[henchman21]

Obviously, but it’s a choice that Avs could make to show that they take care of their players. Having such a reputation can make a team more attractive to players and that can be good business.

It’s also a very small amount of money on the overall budget.

Many teams do this... it is pretty common practice around the NHL. Teams like Toronto, Tampa, and Detroit are pretty notorious about it and it doesn't hurt their reputation. All parties know it is just a part of the business.

LOC's cap hit change is 4,973 and salary change is 4,099. Connauton's salary stays the same, but his cap hit change is 5,780. Avs saved 10,753 against the cap by simply waiting until 3pm. Not a ton by that one instance, but if that happens just 10 times during a season... that is 100k in cap room. The Avs are swimming in cap room right now, but that doesn't mean they will be at the end of the season. Right now, if they made a trade for Hall, they'd only be under the cap by about 400k (his remaining cap hit is about 4.7m and Avs have about 5.1 in current room). Then, any changes from there would end up forcing them to LTIR which could reduce the banking that is currently going on.

Little things like $4m in unused cap space this year and $8.5m last year?

Just explained in this post. It is about flexibility and maintaining it. They saved 10k in cap room by waiting a couple hours.

On top of all of that, the Avs are very vulnerable to ELC bonuses this year. Almost 3.9 out there on the books that isn't currently counted. Makar is likely to find a way to end up with some of that.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I'm not touching that with a pole!

What about a really long stick?

 

[Metallo]

Many teams do this... it is pretty common practice around the NHL. Teams like Toronto, Tampa, and Detroit are pretty notorious about it and it doesn't hurt their reputation. All parties know it is just a part of the business.

LOC's cap hit change is 4,973 and salary change is 4,099. Connauton's salary stays the same, but his cap hit change is 5,780. Avs saved 10,753 against the cap by simply waiting until 3pm. Not a ton by that one instance, but if that happens just 10 times during a season... that is 100k in cap room. The Avs are swimming in cap room right now, but that doesn't mean they will be at the end of the season. Right now, if they made a trade for Hall, they'd only be under the cap by about 400k (his remaining cap hit is about 4.7m and Avs have about 5.1 in current room). Then, any changes from there would end up forcing them to LTIR which could reduce the banking that is currently going on.



Just explained in this post. It is about flexibility and maintaining it. They saved 10k in cap room by waiting a couple hours.

On top of all of that, the Avs are very vulnerable to ELC bonuses this year. Almost 3.9 out there on the books that isn't currently counted. Makar is likely to find a way to end up with some of that.

Exactly, minuscule amounts of money.

Hockey Meccas and a tax free sunny state already have the edge. Colorado can try to find an edge, no?

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs are swimming in cap room right now, but that doesn't mean they will be at the end of the season. Right now, if they made a trade for Hall, they'd only be under the cap by about 400k (his remaining cap hit is about 4.7m and Avs have about 5.1 in current room).

That's only if they didn't give up anybody off the NHL roster to land Hall, which is pretty unlikely.

 

[henchman21]

As an example of bonuses for Makar... if he hits 10 goals 25 assists and/or 40 points, he gets 212,500 for each. If he ends up top 4 in ice time amongst defensemen, he gets another 212,500. That maxes out his schedule A at 850k. Girard is eligible for upto 182,500 in this area. Jost is amongst forwards and will be harder to hit, but he can get up to 850k. If Makar wins the Calder, he gets 212,500... 2nd 150k, 3rd 100k. Could easily see Makar clearing 1m between schedule a and b. Then you get into other stats based areas, where if he paces at all like he is now, could end up in the few thousand range. 1.3-1.6m isn't out of the realm of possibility for the Avs to get hit with ELC bonuses. 1m should be expected (Makar + G schedule A bonuses).

 

[henchman21]

Exactly, minuscule amounts of money.

Hockey Meccas and a tax free sunny state already have the edge. Colorado can try to find an edge, no?

I laid out a case where the Avs can easily be capped out, and then have bonus overages. 10k today isn't a lot. 100k could be a bigger deal.

Right now there are 10 teams with less than 200k in projected cap space. 9 are less than 100k. If the Avs add one 6m+ player sometime in Dec/Jan... they'll likely join the less than 200k cap space group.

 

[Foppa2118]

Cap money or actual money? If cap, how does that work and why would they need to when they're nowhere near the ceiling?

I’m not sure on the specifics but either way, it just seems like an unnecessary risk to save a few bucks. It’s not like the Avs didn’t have a few days between games to decide.

It's both cap and salary. They're actually ineligible to play if they're not on the active roster by 3pm mst/5pm est.

The $10k in cap savings is pretty unnecessary for the Avs IMO, but super necessary for minor leaguers like LOC making much less on AHL salaries. Connauton's actually making the same money though.

I'm surprised the PA doesn't get upset at these moves. They're technically working for the Avs by getting all their gear and flying to Winnipeg for the game. They're just getting paid as AHLers not NHLers.


"50.9 Salary.

Issues Relating to Timing and Calculation of Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club

(a) 5:00 p.m. Daily Deadline for Counting in Actual and Averaged Club Salary.​

(i) For any Player who is on a Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non-Roster or Non-Roster pursuant to an approved and registered SPC at 5:00 p.m. New York time on a particular day during a League Year, such Player shall receive his Player Salary and Bonuses for that day, and such Player Salary and Bonuses shall be included in the calculation of the Club's Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary for that day.

(ii) In the event that an SPC is approved and registered after 5:00 p.m. New York time on a particular day during a League Year, the Player that is party to such SPC shall then be eligible to commence receiving Player Salary and Bonuses in accordance with the terms of the SPC from that Club – and such Player Salary and Bonuses shall be included in the Club's Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary – beginning at 5:00 p.m. New York time on the following day.

(iii) Any Player who is not on a Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non-Roster or Non-Roster pursuant to an approved and registered SPC at 5:00 p.m. New York time on a particular day during a League Year shall be ineligible to play for such Club on that day, and such Player shall be ineligible to receive Player Salary and Bonuses from that Club for that day.

(iv) Notwithstanding subparagraphs (i) through (iii) above, in the event that a Player practices or travels with an NHL Club or plays in an NHL game with a Club prior to 5:00 p.m. New York time on a particular day during a League Year, and is subsequently removed from such Club's Active Roster on that day (e.g., sent down to the minor leagues), such Player shall receive his Player Salary and Bonuses for that day, and such Player Salary and Bonuses shall be included in the Club's Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary for that day."

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf​

 

[Metallo]

I laid out a case where the Avs can easily be capped out, and then have bonus overages. 10k today isn't a lot. 100k could be a bigger deal.

Right now there are 10 teams with less than 200k in projected cap space. 9 are less than 100k. If the Avs add one 6m+ player sometime in Dec/Jan... they'll likely join the less than 200k cap space group.

Well of course we can build scenarios where the Avs are tight on the cap, but 100k is nothing. I think a good GM can create that 100k cap space easily if needed (very unlikely).

 

[wayninja]

What about a really long stick?

Ya, I miss Zads too.

 

[Foppa2118]

Obviously, but it’s a choice that Avs could make to show that they take care of their players. Having such a reputation can make a team more attractive to players and that can be good business.

It’s also a very small amount of money on the overall budget.

It's not a small amount of money to LOC either.

AHL daily pay: $366.49
NHL daily pay: $4,475.81

 

[Pokecheque]

There were cases in the past where a relatively minute amount prevented the Avs from making a callup. It's not that easy to just magically create $100K of cap room if you need it.

I'll be the first to say the Avs have been cheapskates, but this isn't really a bone of contention with me.

 

[Foppa2118]

There were cases in the past where a relatively minute amount prevented the Avs from making a callup. It's not that easy to just magically create $100K of cap room if you need it.

I'll be the first to say the Avs have been cheapskates, but this isn't really a bone of contention with me.

They won't need an extra $100k though. Most trades nowadays involve salary going the other way. It's unlikely they trade for an expensive player like Hall without an NHLer like Zadorov or Jost going the other way anyway.

Even if they traded for Hall right now without giving up an NHLer, they'd still be $400k under the cap. That's only going to increase by the time the deadline rolls around.

For reference, 10 teams are currently projected to have less than $138k in cap space by the end of the season. The Avs are projected to have $3.977M. Only 7 teams are projected to have more cap space.

 

[henchman21]

There were cases in the past where a relatively minute amount prevented the Avs from making a callup. It's not that easy to just magically create $100K of cap room if you need it.

I'll be the first to say the Avs have been cheapskates, but this isn't really a bone of contention with me.

This... pretty easy to get in trouble if careless and this is about the easiest way to save cap room.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Well of course we can build scenarios where the Avs are tight on the cap, but 100k is nothing. I think a good GM can create that 100k cap space easily if needed (very unlikely).

You're absolutely right.


And Joe is doing exactly that by doing what he just did with Connauton/LOC.

 

[Metallo]

You're absolutely right.


And Joe is doing exactly that by doing what he just did with Connauton/LOC.

Missed my point entirely. *if needed* (hint: not needed yet)

 

[Freaky Styley]

It's too bad Z is out vs. Edmonton. He has always played McDavid well IMO

 

[henchman21]

Missed my point entirely. *if needed* (hint: not needed yet)

The counter point is that one big money move... like a Hall move that the Avs have been rumored around. That immediately creates the need.

 

[Avs_19]

18. There is one GM who constantly texts me about Nathan MacKinnon being “robbed” of the 2018 Hart Trophy. (It is not Joe Sakic.) With Gabriel Landeskog and Mikko Rantanen out of the lineup, Colorado’s captain has 11 points in seven games. The Avalanche are outscoring opponents 8-5 with him on the ice at five-on-five and 11-7 overall. It’s early, but he’s making a case. By the way, it’s 11-5 and 14-5, respectively, when Calder Trophy Cale is out there.

31 Thoughts: Maple Leafs not sweating goaltending situation - Sportsnet.ca

Getting the Hart talk started early, I like it. Also, Friedman might be a part of the group trying to take Landeskog's C away.