Proposal: Weegar to Leafs

[cwede]

this proposal makes no sense as a hockey trade, only as TML-fan wish fulfillment

if you seriously want to add Weegar, now a proven NHL regular in his prime, for that long-term RHD spot,
offer Panthers a young Russian forward or a young Swedish D

bundling the extras is not compelling
this offer might get you a Holl-equivalent, just keep the one you have

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

15 less games means Dermott has a "lack of track record"?

Dermott played 220 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had a 52% CF%.

Weegar played 267 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had 54.5 CF%.

They're both fantastic defenseman that deserve to be top-4 or even better based on their impacts.

I mean I'd hardly call Weegar having more of a track record though, it's more that he's proven to be better in the elite minutes but how much of that is due to Ekblad? I like them both but I fail to see how Dermott could be the "mystery box" in comparison when we have just as much data.

Feel free to post the link of elite comps please.

Didnt Keefe coach Dermott the last couple years as well? You'd think he would have known if he was good enough to try in the top 4 earlier than Riellys injury?
Holl just simply performed better.

 

[violaswallet]

Just

Holl had a decent defensive year so can see why Dermott didn't surpass him but Ceci was given more OZ starts and lots of PK mins, Dermott should have definitely been tried there but I think Dubas wanted to prop up Ceci's value (what that may have been) to possibly flip him at the deadline. He knew he wouldn't be re-signing him anyhow.

Then why bring it up then?
5lbs is nothing, maybe in boxing but not in hockey. Most hockey players fluctuate a good 5lbs a week anyhow.

Unfortunately I have to watch a ton of Leaf games with 90% of my friends and family being Leafs fans so I've seen enough and he was not that impressive, Leafs were basically .500 the rest of the way from January 12th on.
Before you claim injuries, CBJ had more man games lost (by average TOI and by cumulative minutes as well) than TOR and both finished with 81pts in 70 games.

just let them be: their argument is (a) let’s trade for a better forward and defenseman for Florida (b) they should accept because TSN told me that they’re broke when the proposed trade adds money with Kerfoot.

The premise is wrong and frankly they don’t reckgnize it: I’m tempted to use weak economic conditions in Canada (especially financial) to ask for Matthews for a 2nd to give them a taste of a weak extrapolation

 

[Fogelhund]

Holl had a decent defensive year so can see why Dermott didn't surpass him but Ceci was given more OZ starts and lots of PK mins, Dermott should have definitely been tried there but I think Dubas wanted to prop up Ceci's value (what that may have been) to possibly flip him at the deadline. He knew he wouldn't be re-signing him anyhow.

Then why bring it up then?
5lbs is nothing, maybe in boxing but not in hockey. Most hockey players fluctuate a good 5lbs a week anyhow.

Unfortunately I have to watch a ton of Leaf games with 90% of my friends and family being Leafs fans so I've seen enough and he was not that impressive, Leafs were basically .500 the rest of the way from January 12th on.
Before you claim injuries, CBJ had more man games lost (by average TOI and by cumulative minutes as well) than TOR and both finished with 81pts in 70 games.

Clearly you are just looking to argue, and are failing to read critically. The choice in moving Dermott to the right, in lieu of Ceci or Holl, meant moving Marincin into the lineup. Is that clear now? Dermott on the left, and Holl/Ceci on the Right, was better than incorporating Marcinin into the lineup. Marincin.

Have a great day.

 

[paulhiggins]

Draft position should be irrelevant the moment after a player is drafted.

It's still relevant because 30 teams' scouts on draft day project a player to reach a certain potential, not the day after draft day, but rather years down the road. They are looking ahead, years beyond draft day.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Poor guy gets mentioned once in some random Elliotte Friedman "insider" blurb that links him to Toronto, and suddenly he's the most sought-after player in the league by Leafs fans everywhere.

Most of 'em couldn't even pick Weegar out of a lineup a month ago, either.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Clearly you are just looking to argue, and are failing to read critically. The choice in moving Dermott to the right, in lieu of Ceci or Holl, meant moving Marincin into the lineup. Is that clear now? Dermott on the left, and Holl/Ceci on the Right, was better than incorporating Marcinin into the lineup. Marincin.

Have a great day.

Not arguing, just debating, that is primarily what the trade section is for no?
You made it seem like there isn't a gap between Weegar and Dermott, just like another TOR fan who felt there wasn't a big gap between Toews and Dermott in a different thread.

Yes both Weegar and Toews are older than Dermott so he definitely has the potential to become a consistent top 4 D.
Right now he isn't one though, the stats back it up.
I like him as a player and he was noticeably physically in his top 4 audition but didn't do much else.

So your closing argument is Keefe didn't try Dermott in the top 4 which should make it better with his ability because the bottom pair/7th guy would have played 13-14 mins a game?

Thanks, you too.

 

[Zybalto]

Holl had a decent defensive year so can see why Dermott didn't surpass him but Ceci was given more OZ starts and lots of PK mins, Dermott should have definitely been tried there but I think Dubas wanted to prop up Ceci's value (what that may have been) to possibly flip him at the deadline. He knew he wouldn't be re-signing him anyhow.

Then why bring it up then?
5lbs is nothing, maybe in boxing but not in hockey. Most hockey players fluctuate a good 5lbs a week anyhow.

Unfortunately I have to watch a ton of Leaf games with 90% of my friends and family being Leafs fans so I've seen enough and he was not that impressive, Leafs were basically .500 the rest of the way from January 12th on.
Before you claim injuries, CBJ had more man games lost (by average TOI and by cumulative minutes as well) than TOR and both finished with 81pts in 70 games.

January 12th?

You mean the day before Morgan Rielly broke his foot leaving the Leafs without him the rest of the way and without their top 2 D for most of the way?

You are wrong in that the Leafs didnt try to play Dermott in any tough situations. Once Ceci went down with a high ankle sprain, he got a great chance as the team #1 in a shutdown role when the Leafs had to play this D while fighting for a playoff spot:

Dermott - Holl
Marincin - Barrie
Sandin - Liljegren

With goaltending not having the best year either, its not surprising the Leafs were struggling to win games no?

 

[Dr Pepper]

January 12th?

You mean the day before Morgan Rielly broke his foot leaving the Leafs without him the rest of the way and without their top 2 D for most of the way?

You are wrong in that the Leafs didnt try to play Dermott in any tough situations. Once Ceci went down with a high ankle sprain, he got a great chance as the team #1 in a shutdown role when the Leafs had to play this D while fighting for a playoff spot:

Dermott - Holl
Marincin - Barrie
Sandin - Liljegren

With goaltending not having the best year either, its not surprising the Leafs were struggling to win games no?

Amazing how, of those six players, Barrie is the only one that Dubas cast aside.

Dermott and Holl will flirt with middle pair minutes.

Sandin and Liljegren, who knows if/when Dubas plans on rotating them into the main roster.

And Marincin will be around forever. I think the only players on the Leafs roster who were there when Marincin first came to Toronto are Rielly, Nylander and Hyman. And the latter two started at the same time as Marincin.

He's tied for 2nd in seniority on that team.

Just crazy.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

To date, he's a LD, behind Muzzin and Rielly... Holl and Ceci don't have much to do with it. There is speculation that Dermott might be tried at RD, but that is more fan speculation, than anything else.

The same Reilly and Muzzin who both missed games? People need to stop pumping air into Dermott tires. He’s not some young stud D.

 

[varano]

Why don't we offer Bracco kapanen and Don't forget a 2nd round pick.

 

[Mogo]

To keep with OP format

kthxbye /thread

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

January 12th?

You mean the day before Morgan Rielly broke his foot leaving the Leafs without him the rest of the way and without their top 2 D for most of the way?

You are wrong in that the Leafs didnt try to play Dermott in any tough situations. Once Ceci went down with a high ankle sprain, he got a great chance as the team #1 in a shutdown role when the Leafs had to play this D while fighting for a playoff spot:

Dermott - Holl
Marincin - Barrie
Sandin - Liljegren

With goaltending not having the best year either, its not surprising the Leafs were struggling to win games no?

Most of the way?
Yes Rielly missed from January 12th on, played one game in March and then all 5 playoff games
Muzzin went down December 27th and was back January 27th for the final 15 games no?
You were without your top 2 D for two weeks from January 12th to 27th (5 games by my calculation, you had your bye week from January 18th to 27th no?).

Dermott had no goals, 3 points and was a +5, with 34 hits, 23 blocked shots in those 23 games in a top 4 audition

Weegar had 4 goals and 6pts and was a +3, with 30 hits, 33 blocked shots in his final 17 games after returning from assumed concussion aka "upper body injury".

 

[ponder]

Elliott’s Friedman believes the Leafs WERE in on Weegar, with Florida asking for Dermott and Johnsson. But he thinks Dubas saw that as too high a price, and instead dealt Johnsson for a nearly-ready prospect (Joey Anderson), and then went the UFA route for RD, signing Brodie and Bogosian. He believes we’re no longer interested in Weegar.

Personally, I think the Leafs are more or less done for this offseason, besides getting RFA deals done for Mikheyev and Dermott.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Thornton - Simmonds
Robertson - Spezza - Barbanov
Depth: Vesey, Boyd, Engvall, Anderson

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bogosian
Depth: Sandin, Lehtonen, Liljegren

Andersen
Campbell
Depth: Dell

You never know, more changes might be coming, but that looks like a solid roster, I can easily see us being essentially done.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm not sure Weegar or anybody else is needed right now.

Sure I'd like to see Holl bumped to the 3rd pair, I think most people would but we know Muzzin-Holl works, and I know from living in Alberta and watching Brodie A LOT that if they play together and get a chance to develop chemistry Rielly Brodie will work.

For me Rielly-Brodie Muzzin-Holl is good enough for now unless you can steal somebody of course.

But short of that I'd sit back until the deadline because I don't believe Hammer stays in Arizona if they are out ofit, maybe David Savard is available at the deadline, maybe Adam Larsson, Ryan Murray there will options come the trade deadline.

I'd sit back and wait I think this is a pretty good team and I don't see the rush

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Elliott’s Friedman believes the Leafs WERE in on Weegar, with Florida asking for Dermott and Johnsson. But he thinks Dubas saw that as too high a price, and instead dealt Johnsson for a nearly-ready prospect (Joey Anderson), and then went the UFA route for RD, signing Brodie and Bogosian. He believes we’re no longer interested in Weegar.

Personally, I think the Leafs are more or less done for this offseason, besides getting RFA deals done for Mikheyev and Dermott.

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Thornton - Simmonds
Robertson - Spezza - Barbanov
Depth: Vesey, Boyd, Engvall, Anderson

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Bogosian
Depth: Sandin, Lehtonen, Liljegren

Andersen
Campbell
Depth: Dell

You never know, more changes might be coming, but that looks like a solid roster, I can easily see us being essentially done.

I'm not sure Barbanov even makes this roster

 

[Zybalto]

Most of the way?
Yes Rielly missed from January 12th on, played one game in March and then all 5 playoff games
Muzzin went down December 27th and was back January 27th for the final 15 games no?
You were without your top 2 D for two weeks from January 12th to 27th (5 games by my calculation, you had your bye week from January 18th to 27th no?).

Dermott had no goals, 3 points and was a +5, with 34 hits, 23 blocked shots in those 23 games in a top 4 audition

Weegar had 4 goals and 6pts and was a +3, with 30 hits, 33 blocked shots in his final 17 games after returning from assumed concussion aka "upper body injury".

Muzzin broke his hand Feb.25th missing the rest of the way.

I'm not saying Dermott was bad in his top 4 duties, which certainly made it easier for dubas to make the decision to keep him. Im saying the Leafs dcore was pretty much decimated down the stretch which, combined with the clown show in net was the reason for the .500 record.

 

[landeskog11]

maybe wait to see weegar's salary for arbitration we could get him for only a 5th round pick

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Muzzin broke his hand Feb.25th missing the rest of the way.

I'm not saying Dermott was bad in his top 4 duties, which certainly made it easier for dubas to make the decision to keep him. Im saying the Leafs dcore was pretty much decimated down the stretch which, combined with the clown show in net was the reason for the .500 record.

Fair enough, so add 6 games, 11 total then?
My point is Dermott didn't step up big time like that one poster said.
Also see most TOR fans penciling Holl in on the 2nd line again with Muzzin.
So when will Dermott prove he's a top 4 D?

Muzzin also missed the last 3 playoff games no?
But Rielly was present for all 5 games?

 

[ponder]

I'm not sure Barbanov even makes this roster

Yeah, the last 2 winger spots could be any of Barbanov, Robertson, Vesey, Boyd, Engvall or Anderson, will be a real battle in camp. My hunch is Robertson/Barbanov, but it could easily be any of those 2.

 

[Red Piller]

15 less games means Dermott has a "lack of track record"?

Dermott played 220 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had a 52% CF%.

Weegar played 267 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had 54.5 CF%.

They're both fantastic defenseman that deserve to be top-4 or even better based on their impacts.

I mean I'd hardly call Weegar having more of a track record though, it's more that he's proven to be better in the elite minutes but how much of that is due to Ekblad? I like them both but I fail to see how Dermott could be the "mystery box" in comparison when we have just as much data.

The same arguments were used for Jake Gardiner to “prove” he was a good defenseman. He wasn’t, and never was. But at least he put up points. Dermott doesn’t even do that. 12 point defender who isn’t great at defending.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Yeah okay lol

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Fair enough, so add 6 games, 11 total then?
My point is Dermott didn't step up big time like that one poster said.
Also see most TOR fans penciling Holl in on the 2nd line again with Muzzin.
So when will Dermott prove he's a top 4 D?

Muzzin also missed the last 3 playoff games no?
But Rielly was present for all 5 games?

He plays defence first and with muzzin was the best defensive zone players on the leafs.
And when muzzin and rielly both went down he was great defensively I dont see how that's not stepping up? It's not all about points, esp since that's not his game at least yet. Dermott had no insulation and for a strech he had to be and was the best leafs dman.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Have to laugh at this one. Leafs get a top 4d for what? Pieces they don't want anymore?

Well, some fans might not want them, but the Leafs might.

 

[Kublakhan]

Have to laugh at this one. Leafs get a top 4d for what? Pieces they don't want anymore?

every Leaf thread insert this player for Kerfoot and Dermott