Proposal: Weegar to Leafs

[nbwingsfan]

I like Weegar a lot, but Dermott now is basically Weegar at the beginning of the 2019-20 season, waiting for his chance to really prove himself in the top-4 (except 3 years younger). No chance I add him to a Weegar deal.

I think there was a chance a deal for Weegar happened, but it passed after we signed Brodie & Florida asked for too much.

And also: Dermott was in the 91st percentile of GAR last season, so no he's not some piece we just want to get rid of. (Weegar was in the 86th - so it's not like he's some slouch either).

All Dermott had to do was beat out Holl and Ceci on the right side last season and yet was still given the least amount of ice time. This whole "he had no opportunity" line Leaf fans use doesnt fly. He had one of the weakest core of D ahead of him and yet two coaches viewed him as the worst of all their regular D...

I also love how Acciari was just thrown in their despite being value than Kerfoot when you include contracts

 

[NiL8r87]

All Dermott had to do was beat out Holl and Ceci on the right side last season and yet was still given the least amount of ice time. This whole "he had no opportunity" line Leaf fans use doesnt fly. He had one of the weakest core of D ahead of him and yet two coaches viewed him as the worst of all their regular D...

I also love how Acciari was just thrown in their despite being value than Kerfoot when you include contracts

Dermott has absolutely fantastic numbers playing those minutes. I don't understand why not beating out players on his weak side is all of a sudden devaluing now?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Dermott has absolutely fantastic numbers playing those minutes. I don't understand why not beating out players on his weak side is all of a sudden devaluing now?

Because he only had to beat out two very bad players...

He had more "opportunity" to move up the lineup than most bottom pairing D.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dermott and Weegar are pretty similar players aside from the fact Weegar is a right shot.

 

[Fogelhund]

All Dermott had to do was beat out Holl and Ceci on the right side last season and yet was still given the least amount of ice time. This whole "he had no opportunity" line Leaf fans use doesnt fly. He had one of the weakest core of D ahead of him and yet two coaches viewed him as the worst of all their regular D...

I also love how Acciari was just thrown in their despite being value than Kerfoot when you include contracts

You realize that Dermott is a Left D, and Holl and Ceci are on the right side?

 

[NiL8r87]

Because he only had to beat out two very bad players...

He had more "opportunity" to move up the lineup than most bottom pairing D.

Again, this makes no sense when you consider other very good defencemen in this league struggle to play on their opposite side. Jake Muzzin who you could argue is our best overall defenceman had this issue and it ended up being a scenario where Cody Ceci was preferred on Rielly's right side. Are you going to tell me Muzzin is overrated because of that? Frankly it's a weakness that extends to the vast majority of dmen in the league.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Have to laugh at this one. Leafs get a top 4d for what? Pieces they don't want anymore?

The Leafs are not giving up on Dermott

 

[violaswallet]

Dermott has absolutely fantastic numbers playing those minutes. I don't understand why not beating out players on his weak side is all of a sudden devaluing now?

Because we value actual realized results and he hasn’t had them?

I get it: you think he is a top 4 D that’s blocked by other top 4D, but, as of now, it’s just a projection. Why give up a player that has shown he is a top 4D for the projected top 4D?

 

[the Chad Kilger]

You like Weegar but yet had to rub Dermotts back and praise him through this entire post?

Weegar was a 7th round pick
Dermott was a 2nd round pick

Draft position should be irrelevant the moment after a player is drafted.

Weegar is a great late bloomer for FLA. Leafs management do not appear ready to move on from Dermott. he'll probably get a 1 yr 1 mil deal due to the cap crunch in TO.
if FLA doesnt want to pay Weegar there won't be much of a return this offseason

 

[violaswallet]

Draft position should be irrelevant the moment after a player is drafted.

Weegar is a great late bloomer for FLA. Leafs management do not appear ready to move on from Dermott. he'll probably get a 1 yr 1 mil deal due to the cap crunch in TO.
if FLA doesnt want to pay Weegar there won't be much of a return this offseason

You do notice that every thread is made by Leafs fans right?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

To date, he's a LD, behind Muzzin and Rielly... Holl and Ceci don't have much to do with it. There is speculation that Dermott might be tried at RD, but that is more fan speculation, than anything else.

Why doesn't it have anything to do with it?
Weegar is a right handed D that was tried on the left side.
Why can't Dermott be a left handed D who can play on the right side and beat out Ceci and Holl?

You say Dermott is the bigger guy but not by much?
Dermott is listed at 6'0, 205lbs
Weegar listed at 6'0, 200lbs
5lbs makes a huge difference?

You say Dermott stepped up when Rielly and Muzzin went down but when Rielly did go down January 12th vs FLA, Dermott's minutes went up from 16-17 mins to 20-21mins and he had 3 assists in 23 games. He was a + player during that stretch but I wouldn't say he stepped up big time.

I like Weegar a lot, but Dermott now is basically Weegar at the beginning of the 2019-20 season, waiting for his chance to really prove himself in the top-4 (except 3 years younger). No chance I add him to a Weegar deal.

I think there was a chance a deal for Weegar happened, but it passed after we signed Brodie & Florida asked for too much.

And also: Dermott was in the 91st percentile of GAR last season, so no he's not some piece we just want to get rid of. (Weegar was in the 86th - so it's not like he's some slouch either).

They both had comparable 2018-19 seasons but this year Weegar had a phenomenal year before he went down with injuries. Weegar faced elite competition this year where Dermott was still matched up against lower skilled players.

2018-19


2019-2020

How much money does FLA have now?

Not saying that is the case, just pointing out it would be naive to think every player would return full value this offseason.

Well context is needed when you talk about Schmidt, you make it seem like VGK was happy with that return?
Every GM knew they needed cap for AP so if they weren't constraints, you think they could have got more for Schmidt than a 3rd?

 

[nbwingsfan]

You realize that Dermott is a Left D, and Holl and Ceci are on the right side?

You do know that Keefe has already stated that Dermott is very comfortable on the right side, has played there before, and may even play there this upcoming season?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Again, this makes no sense when you consider other very good defencemen in this league struggle to play on their opposite side. Jake Muzzin who you could argue is our best overall defenceman had this issue and it ended up being a scenario where Cody Ceci was preferred on Rielly's right side. Are you going to tell me Muzzin is overrated because of that? Frankly it's a weakness that extends to the vast majority of dmen in the league.

See above post.

 

[The Podium]

Well context is needed when you talk about Schmidt, you make it seem like VGK was happy with that return?
Every GM knew they needed cap for AP so if they weren't constraints, you think they could have got more for Schmidt than a 3rd?

You are completely missing the point. Doesnt have to be Schmidt, I am just saying there are obvious external pressures this offseason that are causing massive deviations in trade values.

 

[Ciao]

I wouldn't be anxious to trade Dermott if I were the Leafs management.

The Leafs have been far too ready to give up on young defencemen over the years. Randy Carlyle won a Norris Trophy after the Leafs threw him overboard.

I'm not saying that Dermott will ever be a Norris candidate, but I really can't say he won't be either. I like his game and would be sad to see him go.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

You are completely missing the point. Doesnt have to be Schmidt, I am just saying there are obvious external pressures this offseason that are causing massive deviations in trade values.

I get what you're point is but it's for cap strapped teams, not ones (FLA) with $11.5 million in space....
FLA isn't forced to trade Weegar to sign some other big free agent. If he is moved, I'd hope for something similar to Toews, two 2nds or a late 1st.

NYI could have got more for Toews as well but Sakic knew he had the leverage and paid more for him than Schmidt.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think any chance the Leafs has to trade for Weegar has probably passed now as he’s taken a big step. The proposed package would have to include another piece to get him from Florida.

 

[Fogelhund]

Why doesn't it have anything to do with it?
Weegar is a right handed D that was tried on the left side.
Why can't Dermott be a left handed D who can play on the right side and beat out Ceci and Holl?

You say Dermott is the bigger guy but not by much?
Dermott is listed at 6'0, 205lbs
Weegar listed at 6'0, 200lbs
5lbs makes a huge difference?

You say Dermott stepped up when Rielly and Muzzin went down but when Rielly did go down January 12th vs FLA, Dermott's minutes went up from 16-17 mins to 20-21mins and he had 3 assists in 23 games. He was a + player during that stretch but I wouldn't say he stepped up big time.

Perhaps Dermott can be tried on the Right Side. But, the Leafs felt that the combination of Dermott on the left, and Ceci and Holl on the Right, was better than removing one of Ceci/Holl, and inserting Martin Marincin in on the left...

Dermott is the bigger guy, but not by much. I'm pretty sure 205 > 200. I'm pretty sure saying "not by much", means, not a huge difference. I mean, this looks like arguing, for the sake of arguing.

Dermott when Rielly and Muzzin went down.... So, you read some stats, and have no idea what happened on the ice... brilliant.

 

[The Podium]

I get what you're point is but it's for cap strapped teams, not ones (FLA) with $11.5 million in space....
FLA isn't forced to trade Weegar to sign some other big free agent. If he is moved, I'd hope for something similar to Toews, two 2nds or a late 1st.

NYI could have got more for Toews as well but Sakic knew he had the leverage and paid more for him than Schmidt.

Cap space isnt the only external factor.

 

[Fogelhund]

You do know that Keefe has already stated that Dermott is very comfortable on the right side, has played there before, and may even play there this upcoming season?

Perhaps Dermott can be tried on the Right Side. But, the Leafs felt that the combination of Dermott on the left, and Ceci and Holl on the Right, was better than removing one of Ceci/Holl, and inserting Martin Marincin in on the left...

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Johnsson + Dermott > Kerfoot + Dermott + Holl

imo

that's a bizarre opinion

 

[Morgs]

It’s more than last a lack of a track record is the problem: the argument I get is that he might be Weegar. Do you take the mystery box that might be a boat or the boat itself?

This proposal is terrible because it tosses in Acciari who won’t be traded

15 less games means Dermott has a "lack of track record"?

Dermott played 220 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had a 52% CF%.

Weegar played 267 minutes vs elite comp last season 5v5 and had 54.5 CF%.

They're both fantastic defenseman that deserve to be top-4 or even better based on their impacts.

I mean I'd hardly call Weegar having more of a track record though, it's more that he's proven to be better in the elite minutes but how much of that is due to Ekblad? I like them both but I fail to see how Dermott could be the "mystery box" in comparison when we have just as much data.

 

[glucker]

Have to laugh at this one. Leafs get a top 4d for what? Pieces they don't want anymore?

Rumour has it that Florida wanted Dermott + Johnsson, but the Leafs weren't willing to part with Dermott. He's not an unwanted piece, and frankly neither was Johnsson, he was just forced out by the cap situation.

 

[devils29]

Not to say the circumstances are the same, or this deal is in anyway a good deal for Florida. But after the nuttiness this offseason are you guys really playing the value card?

Nate Schmidt who is a much better D went for a 3rd.

Ya because of cap issues not because value has bottomed out on good players...

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Perhaps Dermott can be tried on the Right Side. But, the Leafs felt that the combination of Dermott on the left, and Ceci and Holl on the Right, was better than removing one of Ceci/Holl, and inserting Martin Marincin in on the left...

Dermott is the bigger guy, but not by much. I'm pretty sure 205 > 200. I'm pretty sure saying "not by much", means, not a huge difference. I mean, this looks like arguing, for the sake of arguing.

Dermott when Rielly and Muzzin went down.... So, you read some stats, and have no idea what happened on the ice... brilliant.

Holl had a decent defensive year so can see why Dermott didn't surpass him but Ceci was given more OZ starts and lots of PK mins, Dermott should have definitely been tried there but I think Dubas wanted to prop up Ceci's value (what that may have been) to possibly flip him at the deadline. He knew he wouldn't be re-signing him anyhow.

Then why bring it up then?
5lbs is nothing, maybe in boxing but not in hockey. Most hockey players fluctuate a good 5lbs a week anyhow.

Unfortunately I have to watch a ton of Leaf games with 90% of my friends and family being Leafs fans so I've seen enough and he was not that impressive, Leafs were basically .500 the rest of the way from January 12th on.
Before you claim injuries, CBJ had more man games lost (by average TOI and by cumulative minutes as well) than TOR and both finished with 81pts in 70 games.