We need grit

[Duke749]

That's like saying giving up puck possession always goes hand in hand with the little d-men who get pushed around. It's a stereotype based in fact but not applicable to all... even the third pairing guys.

Fact is, right now we're among the worst defensive teams in the NHL (well, we're in 21st spot for goals against, but I think our game against the Oilers may have padded that stat on the positive side for us).

Just saying that a little toughness is a good thing. Last I checked, the NHL was still a body-contact league.

Ok, so we’re basically on the same page. Maybe a different sentence but we’re essentially in agreement then.
I’ve always felt like your opinions were similar to mine or very solid ones. Just don’t think you’re clear enough at times.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Ok, so we’re basically on the same page. Maybe a different sentence but we’re essentially in agreement then.
I’ve always felt like your opinions were similar to mine or very solid ones. Just don’t think you’re clear enough at times.

That's because one of us shouldn't post in these forums while drinking.

It's maybe I think you.

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't think Chiarot would've been much help to the Jets this year - especially not at $3M.

 

[sipowicz]

I don't think Chiarot would've been much help to the Jets this year - especially not at $3M.

Chariot at least had size and a bit of nasty, three of the Jets current D look to be under 180 lbs, both Morrissey and Pionk are pretty small guys for the NHL and Heinola looks to be around 160 lbs!

 

[Ducky10]

I don't think Chiarot would've been much help to the Jets this year - especially not at $3M.

If anybody thinks Chiarot would have helped change how this team has been defensively this year, I simply don't know what to tell them, other than he wouldn't have.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Dahlstrom 6'4" 212lbs and and Sbisa 6'2" 207 lbs.

Dahlstrom - 6'4, 231 lbs.

He might be better, faster at 212.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Positional awareness should not have to be stated, it's an obvious requirement. But having the size and strength to inflict one's will upon the opponent can't be taught.

What is accomplished by a big Dman trying to inflict his will on the big winger parked in front of the net? The battle is a tie and you now have 2 big men screening your goalie. The battle also frequently leads to a penalty, more often than not, to the defender.

It might be reassuring to know that you have big strong Dmen who can engage in shoving matches in front of your net, but it is not very productive.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think Chiarot would've been much help to the Jets this year - especially not at $3M.

Even less so at 3.5 mil.

 

[Gm0ney]

Chariot at least had size and a bit of nasty, three of the Jets current D look to be under 180 lbs, both Morrissey and Pionk are pretty small guys for the NHL and Heinola looks to be around 160 lbs!

I just don't think the Jets would have won more games by this point with Chiarot on the team - unable to break out of his zone, but able to deliver big hits and create 2-on-1s against. Unable to carry a weaker partner; needing to be carried - but there's no Buff to carry him anymore....All for only $3.5M x 3 (or more since we'd have to outbid the Habs)? No thanks, Sip. I'll get my grit on the cheap from Dahlstrom or whoever.

 

[Board Bard]

What is accomplished by a big Dman trying to inflict his will on the big winger parked in front of the net? The battle is a tie and you now have 2 big men screening your goalie. The battle also frequently leads to a penalty, more often than not, to the defender.

It might be reassuring to know that you have big strong Dmen who can engage in shoving matches in front of your net, but it is not very productive.

One thing size can do is make sure it's a Jet who's closest to the puck when Helly drops a glove save at his feet or there is similar net-front chaos. There is something to be gained from physically exerting your will on an opponent to get what you want. That assumes the defender isn't a spaz, of course.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

H

Dahlstrom - 6'4, 231 lbs.

He might be better, faster at 212.

Hmm. I see both weights from different sources. If he has blown up to 231, he probably needs to cut down on the carbs! Is there a dietitian on the payroll? Or are they full time on Buf.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One thing size can do is make sure it's a Jet who's closest to the puck when Helly drops a glove save at his feet or there is similar net-front chaos. There is something to be gained from physically exerting your will on an opponent to get what you want. That assumes the defender isn't a spaz, of course.

No argument from me there. All else being equal, bigger is better. All else is seldom equal though. Large size is not a necessity. Effectiveness is the standard, and it can be achieved by both large and small players. They do it differently. But the day of that battle to clear the front of the net is pretty much over.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

H

Hmm. I see both weights from different sources. If he has blown up to 231, he probably needs to cut down on the carbs! Is there a dietitian on the payroll? Or are they full time on Buf.

I checked HockeyDB, EP and Jets roster and all 3 said 231. No idea how long he has carried that kind of weight. I don't think it is excessive for a man of 6'4 but he would probably be quicker 15-20 lbs lighter and he would still be a big man.

 

[potroaster]

Gonna try to bring back this thread ahead of the best pizza places in Winnipeg.

The Jets are a soft group. They can skate, score some goals. But in the playoffs, you need toughness. I didn't see anything like that. Wheeler tries. Beaulieu. Lowry. Did I miss anyone?

If hitting was not allowed, yeah we would be in contention for sure. Lemieux, Tanev and Chiarot sure would had looked good in these playoffs. Do we keep it as status quo and hope for the best? Cause I don't see Ehlers or Wheeler being the grit on this team. Or Is grit not needed here? I would love to know.

 

[SUX2BU]

What’s wrong with pizzas?

And, we have Ehlers .....

we need a coaching change

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Gonna try to bring back this thread ahead of the best pizza places in Winnipeg.

The Jets are a soft group. They can skate, score some goals. But in the playoffs, you need toughness. I didn't see anything like that. Wheeler tries. Beaulieu. Lowry. Did I miss anyone?

If hitting was not allowed, yeah we would be in contention for sure. Lemieux, Tanev and Chiarot sure would had looked good in these playoffs. Do we keep it as status quo and hope for the best? Cause I don't see Ehlers or Wheeler being the grit on this team. Or Is grit not needed here? I would love to know.

I don't see any need to put grits on a pizza. Or cucumbers. On this there can be no debate.

RIP Poppie.

 

[Daximus]

Gonna try to bring back this thread ahead of the best pizza places in Winnipeg.

The Jets are a soft group. They can skate, score some goals. But in the playoffs, you need toughness. I didn't see anything like that. Wheeler tries. Beaulieu. Lowry. Did I miss anyone?

If hitting was not allowed, yeah we would be in contention for sure. Lemieux, Tanev and Chiarot sure would had looked good in these playoffs. Do we keep it as status quo and hope for the best? Cause I don't see Ehlers or Wheeler being the grit on this team. Or Is grit not needed here? I would love to know.

I do think that a certain level of physicality is needed. We had a pretty good run to the WCF on the back of some very physical play, especially in the Minny and Nashville series. Then we looked kind of beat up by the time we got to Vegas. Losing Buff, Tanev, Chiarot and to a lesser extent Myers will definitely handicap a teams physicality. Samberg should provide some size on the backend. Harkins has some energy to his game. We are unlikely to find that high end physicality for awhile and unless we sign a bunch of cheap energy guys and hope for the best. I prefer having energy guys with some skill personally.

 

[DRW204]

We need more than that.

need better PK, better collective defensively, better scoring depth/2c.

 

[rubikscube]

Thorburn is looking for a job

 

[Jets 31]

I liked Tanev and Charoit but both got too much money especially with Buff still not being retired we didn't have the cap room to sign them. And no one, i mean no one would have thought Chevy should sign Tanev and Charoit instead of Connor. If Chevy had done that everyone would have wanted Chevy fired on the spot especially me .

 

[Do or Die]

The issue is not so much with some of the lunch pail grit, that left.....but the quality of the replacements (Eakin, Shaw, et al.)

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

The Jets drafted big, grit, and mean with Logan Stanley in 2016 and wasted a 1st round draft pick. Samberg may make the NHL as a bottom 4 D. When your only requirements are big and physical, that's all your going to get. I'm not against big mean players. I'm against tough players with no replacement value.

If there was a tougher defenseman than Ville Heinola with his puck moving skills at the 2019 draft available to the Jets at #20th OA then yes we should have drafted him. The very real problem is you often have to sacrifice some skill or talent to get toughness or grit. I'm all for Ehlers speed and puck possession, KFC's finish in the front of the net, in the body of a player like Lucic.

If we are looking for grit or toughness to add without losing a lot of skill or talent, it will be likely found drafting for replacement players in round 3 + in the drafts. Players that will only play 2-3 seasons in the NHL on the 4th line or sometimes 3rd line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What’s wrong with pizzas?

And, we have Ehlers .....

we need a coaching change

Ehlers has boatloads of grit - for his size. Unfortunate for grit, is his size.

Seems to be a trade-off. Size doesn't seem to be available with that level of skill. I think we need a little more size on the blueline. That is, size with grit. You can have grit without size and size without grit. Don't want either. And while we are at it, I don't want dumb.

 

[lanky]

I'm all for skill trumping size but I'll ask anyways...

does a future blueline with Morrissey, Pionk and Heinola pose a problem for us?

If that's too much pint-sized skill on our back-end then this summer might be a good time to sell high on Pionk. He was 12th in league scoring among D. We could get a really attractive asset.

 

[KB1971]

does a future blueline with Morrissey, Pionk and Heinola pose a problem for us?

You forgot about Niku. Just kidding, let's trade him, Rosco & Frenchie for a C willing to do anything to win.

This season the Jets were soft & play a perimeter game. I even heard most Jets love the perimeter so much they all live in Oak Bluff.