We lost

[Burke the Legend]

If anybody's radar is off, it might be yours as the poster I was replying to wasn't being sarcastic in the least. If you genuinely believe he was, I'd invite you to read the rest of the posts he wrote in this thread for reference.

Umm yes he was, you should calm down.

 

[Strat]

Umm yes he was, you should calm down.

Check the history of this thread to see the Moncton fellow wasn't being sarcastic.

 

[beowulf]

Disappointed with this one more than usual as a win would have shown that the team really can stand up to the "elite" teams in the conference.

 

[ZARTONK]

In other news, Toronto has been outscores 15-4 in the last TWO games.

 

[Monctonscout]

I don't care much about that lost. It was mainly the result of bold mistakes, which isn't bad since these mistakes are usually the easiest to fix.

Few observations, tho:

• I was never sold on DD, but I always gave him the benefit of the doubt since he works hard, he's better defensively than people give him credit for, and he somehow produces. But what I always thought would happen is happening: as the team is developping into a clear cut top tier team, he's becoming one of the few weakest links. His time is counted.

• Still not sold on Eller. After a nice strech during which he shows all of his skills and is producing, he becomes invisible and the worse part of his line for 2 straight games (and counting). But I'm still willing to be patient since there's so much to like about him.

• The so called depth on D with the supposed top prospects is a myth. I still think both Beaulieu and Tinordi will make it in the NHL, but I doubt either will become a first pair guy, and nobody in the pipeline shows that type of skills and the capacity to use it at the NHL level. Since the cup window is between now and 5 years ahead, I think Bergevin should sacrifice good prospect(s) to get a clear cut #2 (or at least a clear cut #3). I think the next 2 drafts will show Timmins focussing on Ds.

• Beaulieu reminds me more and more of Patrice Brisebois. Can still have a great career and be pretty usefull, but won't be a top pairing D like his skills are giving hope for.

• I like the kid pretty much, but I'm starting to think we're seeing what we had to see about Gallagher. The opposing D-men are playing him better than before, and like it or not, his small size is an obstacle for him to adapt. Since I doubt he will developp into a faster skater or a better playmaker, I'm wondering if he could be the kid to sacrifice in a package to go get a true #2 d-man...

Other than the really elite young d-men that can jump to the NHL at 19-20-21, most will require until they are 24-25-26 to establish themselves into top 2 or top 4 d-men.

Tinordi is 22 and Beaulieu won't be 22 for another 2 weeks. People are too quick to write them off after a bad game or bad play. As much as Beaulieu looked lost in the 1st he has to go through these growing pains to develop. Some plays he looks like an all star others he is lost, such is the nature of young d-men.

The last thing I want to see is to move a guy like him and have him be a Norris candidate somewhere else like the Islanders with all the young guys they traded(Milbury plan).

Personally, I doubt that the Habs would find any takers. The more I see Desharnais play, the more I see a resemblance to Derek Roy. A small center who absolutely needs certain pieces and situations to be successful. Once defenders have learned how to counter him, there's not much he can do. He'll also lose most of his battles on the boards due to his size. I'll assume that Bergevin will *try* to find takers during the off-season but unless the team takes on another unwanted player, I highly doubt that will happen.

If Galchenyuk could solidify his position as a legitimate NHL centerman, I believe Desharnais would be done. Unfortunately, Galchenyuk seems to work better as a winger for now.


Eller's fine. He's a borderline 2nd centerman on this team who is usually not a defensive liability. He's not expected to produce at every opportunity as he is clearly spearheading the 3rd line. If anything, that line had been playing over their head for the past few games.


Tinordi will likely be a 3rd-pairing guy for his whole career whereas I predict Beaulieu will eventually become a solid 2nd-pairing D-man. It'll be interesting to see who the Habs try to get when Markov retires because there's nobody on the farm team who could be on the 1st-pairing. I love Emelin but I don't believe he's top-pair material, though he's a solid 2nd-pair D-man.


He's on pace for the exact same amount of points he's had last year, which was a career-high total. Granted, he'll never be a superstar, but players like him who aren't afraid to go to the net and pay the price and who can score garbage goals are rare, especially on the Habs. Who else on the team fills that role? If Bourque would have played like he can, we could throw his name in the conversation, but nobody else has a nose for the net like Gallagher does.

You have a strange view of things, Eller struggles offensively and has a horrible +- playing 3rd line minutes but he is a borderline #2? The only way I see him as a #2 is if he has Kane on one wing and Perry on the other. He's not a guy to carry a line because his vision and playmaking are subpar.


Saying Desharnais wouldn't find any takers makes no sense, you should look at other teams and rosters sometime. Most players who put up around 50 points a year get 4.5-6 mil/year not 3.5 mil AAV. That kind of contract is an easy fit for a team looking for offensive depth.

 

[beowulf]

In other news, Toronto has been outscores 15-4 in the last TWO games.

And the meme that their own twitter feed posted after the second period was golden!

 

[ZARTONK]

And the meme that their own twitter feed posted after the second period was golden!

Can't find it, what was it?

 

[WeThreeKings]

I can't wait for when DD is finally waived/traded etc. Really want to see Moncton Scouts response to the return.

If there was half a market out there that we could get a semi competent winger.. He would already be gone

 

[beowulf]

Can't find it, what was it?

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3som5e

 

[Andy]

You have a strange view of things, Eller struggles offensively and has a horrible +- playing 3rd line minutes but he is a borderline #2? ..

Last 15 games

Eller, 8 points -1
Desharnais 7 points +3

 

[missthenet]

Did anyone score a goal tonight for the Habs?

No. Move along. I know DD is like a security blanket or a pacifier for some when things go bad and there is a need to cry.

Fleury beat the Habs tonight. Accept it and you will feel better knowing that at times teams get beat instead of losing.

fleury was hardly tested other than a couple of chances on the PP. We were outshot, outplayed, outhustled and out coached. Only change MT made was switching a couple of players around, he went with the same powerplay and DD that does not work. Eller and Sekac and Paciorett should be on the PP for a try. We were lucky against Detroit with a couple of fluky goals. This was a measure of our team and they failed. Chicago beat us 5-0 and now Pittsburgh.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You have a strange view of things, Eller struggles offensively and has a horrible +- playing 3rd line minutes but he is a borderline #2? The only way I see him as a #2 is if he has Kane on one wing and Perry on the other. He's not a guy to carry a line because his vision and playmaking are subpar.

Saying Desharnais wouldn't find any takers makes no sense, you should look at other teams and rosters sometime. Most players who put up around 50 points a year get 4.5-6 mil/year not 3.5 mil AAV. That kind of contract is an easy fit for a team looking for offensive depth.

Lars Eller produces the same 5 on 5 offense that DD does but with harder assignments and worse linemates. He's better offensively and defensively than DD is.

And he's got the best possession numbers on the team. DD has the worst with the exception of our 4th line. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...core-overall-nhl-player-ranking-rating-week-5

No matter how you slice it, Eller is better than DD is.

 

[optimus2861]

Lars Eller produces the same 5 on 5 offense that DD does but with harder assignments and worse linemates. He's better offensively and defensively than DD is.

And he's got the best possession numbers on the team. DD has the worst with the exception of our 4th line. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...core-overall-nhl-player-ranking-rating-week-5

No matter how you slice it, Eller is better than DD is.

And these are DD's numbers with him being surgically attached to Pacioretty. If they ever finally get split up, I'd expect DD's possession numbers to crater.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And these are DD's numbers with him being surgically attached to Pacioretty. If they ever finally get split up, I'd expect DD's possession numbers to crater.

And on the flipside, Eller was dragging along the dead weight that was Rene Bourque. His possession numbers will go up now that he's got Sekac. And Sekac is going to be greatly helped by Eller.

Until he's inevitably put on DD's line of course.

 

[Michelangelo]

Last 15 games

Eller, 8 points -1
Desharnais 7 points +3

Oh snap, Eller is a blackhole offensively. What does that make DD?

This is just one fan's opinion as I don't proclaim myself as a scout though.

 

[Monctonscout]

Last 15 games

Eller, 8 points -1
Desharnais 7 points +3

...because the 50 games before don't matter I guess?

 

[Hoople]

fleury was hardly tested other than a couple of chances on the PP. We were outshot, outplayed, outhustled and out coached. Only change MT made was switching a couple of players around, he went with the same powerplay and DD that does not work. Eller and Sekac and Paciorett should be on the PP for a try. We were lucky against Detroit with a couple of fluky goals. This was a measure of our team and they failed. Chicago beat us 5-0 and now Pittsburgh.

We can put any combination of forwards on our presently structured PP and will still struggle.

As long as we continue to play a perimeter game with the primary attack focused on the points, we will struggle.

Even with Pleks line, either Pleks or Chucky were set up to the left of Fleury slightly behind the goal line. The Pens defensed it perfectly. One forward on PK and three players low. It's odd to see a team on the PP being out-numbered 3-2 down low.

Until Therrien parks a player in front of the crease and focuses the attack on getting shots on close from the slot, the Habs will struggle. The worst thing to happen to the Habs was PK's early success last season with his slapper on the PP. Therrien is sticking with it regardless

 

[CHwest]

...because the 50 games before don't matter I guess?

I'll tell you what matters, tough games, playoff games, somehow pip weasel disappears in both.

 

[Hoople]

Lars Eller produces the same 5 on 5 offense that DD does but with harder assignments and worse linemates. He's better offensively and defensively than DD is.

And he's got the best possession numbers on the team. DD has the worst with the exception of our 4th line. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...core-overall-nhl-player-ranking-rating-week-5

No matter how you slice it, Eller is better than DD is.

Great!! We need Eller's line to score points just like we need every line to score points. Getting rid of Bourque was the best thing to happen for Eller.

 

[Fozz]

Disappointed with this one more than usual as a win would have shown that the team really can stand up to the "elite" teams in the conference.

A lost after 6 wins in a row doesn't show that the team can't stand to the "elite" teams in the conference. They had a few bad breaks and made a few mistakes and lost. No big deal and a great game for the coaching staff to use for video breakdown.
What's way more important is how they react to this lost and how they'll come out on Thursday.

 

[Habs Icing]

...because the 50 games before don't matter I guess?

Scout,

You can argue that Dd is a decent centerman but please don't tell me he is suited for 1st line duties. He belongs in the role of a 3rd line center man and I'm a big DD fan. Giving him PP and big offensive minutes is counter productive. We need to switch up the centermen or move DD to wing and put Chuckie in at center. DD is not cutting it.

 

[Runner77]

Tinordi is 22 and Beaulieu won't be 22 for another 2 weeks. People are too quick to write them off after a bad game or bad play. As much as Beaulieu looked lost in the 1st he has to go through these growing pains to develop. Some plays he looks like an all star others he is lost, such is the nature of young d-men.

Who are these "people"? A small vocal minority, certainly. I'd venture that the majority of fans are aboard Bergevin's plan about building from within and exercising excruciating patience with talented players who lack experience. Continuing to lend credence to those who expect changes before they can be implemented, is great for repartee but not reflective of a the larger reality at play. Habs fans are more intelligent and informed than the few "people" you are referring to.

 

[Habs Icing]

A lost after 6 wins in a row doesn't show that the team can't stand to the "elite" teams in the conference. They had a few bad breaks and made a few mistakes and lost. No big deal and a great game for the coaching staff to use for video breakdown.
What's way more important it how they will react to this lost and how they'll come out on Thursday.

It's not the loss after 6 wins that tells us they can't play against elite teams. It's their 4 one sided losses against good to elite teams that tells us they can't cope.

Tampa Bay 7-1
Chicago5-0
Pittsburgh 4-0
Calgary 6-2

 

[MonkeyBusiness]

Other than the really elite young d-men that can jump to the NHL at 19-20-21, most will require until they are 24-25-26 to establish themselves into top 2 or top 4 d-men.

Tinordi is 22 and Beaulieu won't be 22 for another 2 weeks. People are too quick to write them off after a bad game or bad play. As much as Beaulieu looked lost in the 1st he has to go through these growing pains to develop. Some plays he looks like an all star others he is lost, such is the nature of young d-men.

The last thing I want to see is to move a guy like him and have him be a Norris candidate somewhere else like the Islanders with all the young guys they traded(Milbury plan).




You have a strange view of things, Eller struggles offensively and has a horrible +- playing 3rd line minutes but he is a borderline #2? The only way I see him as a #2 is if he has Kane on one wing and Perry on the other. He's not a guy to carry a line because his vision and playmaking are subpar.


Saying Desharnais wouldn't find any takers makes no sense, you should look at other teams and rosters sometime. Most players who put up around 50 points a year get 4.5-6 mil/year not 3.5 mil AAV. That kind of contract is an easy fit for a team looking for offensive depth.

So tell me, what does playing 3rd line minutes mean to you? Because in Eller's case it means going up against better offensive lines than Desharnais and having the majority of his starts in defensive zone which makes it harder to get possession of the puck and keep it. So, in this case, playing ''3rd line minutes'' is harder than Desharnais' second line minutes. +/- doesn't mean a player is better or worse defensively than another one and it can be an extremely flawed statistic. It would be pretty easy for any player in the league to put up decent +/- numbers if they were used in Desharnais' role.

 

[LePoche69]

And these are DD's numbers with him being surgically attached to Pacioretty. If they ever finally get split up, I'd expect DD's possession numbers to crater.

I don't try to defend DD as I do think he's showing his limitations this year, but to be honnest, Max Pac isn't a possession beast either. I'd say Sekac and even Prust succeed better at keeping the puck in Habs' possession.

Max Pac is great at rushing with the puck in the O-zone on a straight line, and great at shooting/scoring. Not bad at passing, but other than that, he's average at best. Rarely wins a battle for the puck.