We lost

[Runner77]

The high end pieces we need will not develop in time IMO for another 3yrs. How many years will Carey be at the summit of his game?
I believe we need to act now with our Top 6.

Who would let go and how much would you say, we should be prepared to pay? What kind of pieces -- short term like Jumbo Joe or longer term assets like Kane who will be a lot more costly?

 

[Monctonscout]

Look at the games against Tampa, Chicago, Pittsburgh.. Galchenyuk not at C didn't save us from having horrible games/shifts defensively against them

Nothing will save us from having horrible games/shifts. The team will always have them regardless of who's on the roster...SJ just lost to Buffalo.

A big part of beating those teams is playing better 1st periods, something that's gotten better but is still an issue. Against top teams scoring first instaed of letting them score 1st makes a big difference.

None of that changes the fact that playing center would cut Galchenyuk's ice time and slow his offensive development...he looks like he's taking a big step forward offensively, why screw it up?

He had an off-season last year, but he had 30 points in 46 games in the shortened season. Out of 82 games, he would have had 53 points. Not bad for a guy with subpar abilities. That looks like a borderline 2nd centerman to me.


I'm aware of other teams' rosters, thank you. When I say Desharnais wouldn't find any takers, I'm referring to a trade, meaning both parties would need to agree to what they'd get in return. What do you think a team that would require another centerman be willing to give in return? Let's take a look at teams that have a hard time scoring goals ; Columbus, Carolina, Buffalo, or Florida. What pieces from these teams do you think would benefit the Habs and that the team would likely give up in return for Desharnais?

There are a ton of teams looking for offensive help and depth. Edmonton has desperately been looking to add a center to help RNH but the market has been pretty dry...I'm sure they'd offer a pretty nice package for a guy like DD who would give them somebody to feed a Perron or Yakupov. Would be a clear upgrade on Draisatl and Gordon.

Doubt it. Grabovski is way more dynamic offensively than Desharnais. He'd probably put up way more points if he played with Patches in the DD role.

TOI
Pleks 18:55
DD 17:13
Eller 14:26
Maholtra 11:31

DD doesn't play a sec on the PK and Pleks usually gets to play about a third of our PK minutes. We have one of the better PK units in the league

DD's line is usually first on the PP and usually spends the most time on the PP. Plek's line gets the left overs and Eller's on occasion gets some PP scraps. We have one of the worse PP units in the league.

DD is a perfect example of the Peter Principle: you get promoted to your level of incompetency. DD's TOI should be decreased to 12-13 minutes. And I'm one of his biggest fans.

Funny that Grabovsky is so dynamic offensively and he has a lower PPGM than Desharnais.

If you drop Desharnais' minutes by 6, then who's minutes increase? Who takes those minutes?

The PP thing is a terrible argument, both liners have gotten 1st PP work at times and the PP still struggled...it's a dysfunctional PP until recently, not related to one particular line.

 

[Strat]

There are a ton of teams looking for offensive help and depth. Edmonton has desperately been looking to add a center to help RNH but the market has been pretty dry...I'm sure they'd offer a pretty nice package for a guy like DD who would give them somebody to feed a Perron or Yakupov. Would be a clear upgrade on Draisatl and Gordon.

Again, my question is what would you expect them to give up in return?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Nothing will save us from having horrible games/shifts. The team will always have them regardless of who's on the roster...SJ just lost to Buffalo.

A big part of beating those teams is playing better 1st periods, something that's gotten better but is still an issue. Against top teams scoring first instaed of letting them score 1st makes a big difference.

None of that changes the fact that playing center would cut Galchenyuk's ice time and slow his offensive development...he looks like he's taking a big step forward offensively, why screw it up?



There are a ton of teams looking for offensive help and depth. Edmonton has desperately been looking to add a center to help RNH but the market has been pretty dry...I'm sure they'd offer a pretty nice package for a guy like DD who would give them somebody to feed a Perron or Yakupov. Would be a clear upgrade on Draisatl and Gordon.





Funny that Grabovsky is so dynamic offensively and he has a lower PPGM than Desharnais.

If you drop Desharnais' minutes by 6, then who's minutes increase? Who takes those minutes?

The PP thing is a terrible argument, both liners have gotten 1st PP work at times and the PP still struggled...it's a dysfunctional PP until recently, not related to one particular line.

Grabovski : 9 pts in 15 games, 0.60 PPG
DD : 10 pts in 20 games, 0.50 PPG

so, you were sayin'...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have never said he was a #1 center...doesn't get #1 minutes, doesn't get paid like one...only on here do we hear he is the "#1 center". Since MT has been coach Plekanec has been his #1 center. The minutes prove it...

Stop it with your ridiculous BS.

Agreed that an upgrade to Desharnais is required but to suggest that Eller is that piece is laughable

Nobody suggested this. But there's zero doubt he'd do a better job.

, regardless of possession numbers (which are next to irrelevant in my books). Galchenyuk isn't ready either... MB needs to go out and get that player on the market, which is no easy task.

He doesn't need to go out and get anyone. He can take the three centers he has and share the easier minutes between them. We don't have the superstar center that other teams do but not many teams have three solid centers either. There doesn't need to be a number one center.

Doing it this way also allows for Galchenyuk to grow into the role. And if we started giving him easier minutes I bet he'd surprise you with what he could do. Look at what Forsberg is doing in Nashville. He's been given the responsibility and opportunity to succeed. Here? We sit Galchenyuk on the wing and hold him back so that our midget AHL caliber centerman can rack up 50 points with easy minutes. Totally wrongheaded to do this.

 

[Monctonscout]

Grabovski : 9 pts in 15 games, 0.60 PPG
DD : 10 pts in 20 games, 0.50 PPG

so, you were sayin'...

Right because 1/5 of a season means a lot more than 4-5 season...

Grabovsky 261/440 0.59 PPGM
Desharnais 173/277 0.62 PPGM

 

[Monctonscout]

Again, my question is what would you expect them to give up in return?

I'm sure they'd trade at least a 2nd and a B prospect...maybe more.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Grabovski : 9 pts in 15 games, 0.60 PPG
DD : 10 pts in 20 games, 0.50 PPG

so, you were sayin'...

If he was talking about career PPG, Grabovski has never played a first line role and had his production reduced by Carlyle using him as a shutdown center, a role DD could never be used in. If he were used like DD in an exploitation role, his PPG would shoot up.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Right because 1/5 of a season means a lot more than 4-5 season...

Grabovsky 261/440 0.59 PPGM
Desharnais 173/277 0.62 PPGM

Over 82 games, the average difference in production is 2-3 points.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Right because 1/5 of a season means a lot more than 4-5 season...

Grabovsky 261/440 0.59 PPGM
Desharnais 173/277 0.62 PPGM

cool, they pretty much have the same PPG career wise, doesnt change the fact that RIGHT NOW, for the actual season, the one that is being played right before our eyes, Grabovsky produces more, with less ice-time (both at ES and PP) on a 2nd line.

although in the numbers you've posted yourself, It's kind of interesting to see that Grabovsky played what, around 60% more games...

 

[missthenet]

Are you really gonna blame Price last night?
I'll be the first to admit when he plays bad but to blame him last night is crazy


1st goal - you do know this is the NHL right? Any player given enough time to tan on the beach while in the slot will pick a corner and snipe it, that's what these guys do and that's what Bennett did.

2nd goal - I don't know what you expected but again 1 guy who can score has the puck in the high slot alone while another guy is back door without a Habs jersey within a country mile of him. Don't know if you expected Price to have a superman cape come out and him fly across the ice to stop it but that puck is going in 100 times out of 100.

3rd goal, yet again in the slot untouched and by himself, see the trend yet?? It's to easy for these shooters.

4th goal, in front of the net a dman is supposed to play hard on anybody, let alone Malkin and Crosby two of the best players in the world we watch them and let them both be on the edge of the crease without paying the price (no pun intended)

Coaching is and has been the problem, you are not up for the firsteriod in a game you adjust, but it seems like almost every game we re not up for the first period, even against buffalo for crying out loud. We shuffle dmaen especially the young guys in and out of the lineup without giving them an opportunity to be consistent. Who comes out now Bealieu for five games of Tinordi? how about taking Weaver or gilbert out for a couple of games and let the young guys play. I am disappointed that we have MT signed for four years which will take us to the end of the price era and possibly prime of guys like Subban, patches, pleky etc. Pittsburg, Chicago, Calgary, Tampa, all owned us in current games and we need to be better. I have no faith in MT. could not win a cup in Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury and the rest of their stars he will never win one in Montreal. Thursday against St.Louis should be interesting.

 

[LePoche69]

Also, 9 points in 15 games without Johnny T is far superior to 10 points in 20 games with first wave PP time and Pacioretty. The Isles' first wave has Johnny T, Okposo, and Nelson. Grabovski is doing more with less.

I know. And I did said that I wouldn't bet on DD getting more points. But I'd still take DD before Grabovski since neither is really an ideal first line C.

DD being below average in his own territory is a myth. It's been 2 years that he plays very well in his territory. He's almost never the man at fault when there is a goal against his line. He's always the third man to fight for the puck behind his goal line and surprinsingly, he wins the battle more often than not. And he's almost always the first man back when there is a turnover.

I'm not saying DD is great or anything. But I don't know what games some people are looking when bashing DD defensive game.

I know the +/- stats isn't telling much, but still, you can't be in the + as much as he is if you're not producing while being bad defensively...

 

[Suzuki x 14]

Coaching is and has been the problem, you are not up for the firsteriod in a game you adjust, but it seems like almost every game we re not up for the first period, even against buffalo for crying out loud. We shuffle dmaen especially the young guys in and out of the lineup without giving them an opportunity to be consistent. Who comes out now Bealieu for five games of Tinordi? how about taking Weaver or gilbert out for a couple of games and let the young guys play. I am disappointed that we have MT signed for four years which will take us to the end of the price era and possibly prime of guys like Subban, patches, pleky etc. Pittsburg, Chicago, Calgary, Tampa, all owned us in current games and we need to be better. I have no faith in MT. could not win a cup in Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury and the rest of their stars he will never win one in Montreal. Thursday against St.Louis should be interesting.

You're preaching to the wrong guy, I can't stand therrien.

I'll give him credit for being able to get mad and go rah rah rah but when it comes to X's and O's he's lost.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I know. And I did said that I wouldn't bet on DD getting more points. But I'd still take DD before Grabovski since neither is really an ideal first line C.

DD being below average in his own territory is a myth. It's been 2 years that he plays very well in his territory. He's almost never the man at fault when there is a goal against his line. He's always the third man to fight for the puck behind his goal line and surprinsingly, he wins the battle more often than not. And he's almost always the first man back when there is a turnover.

I'm not saying DD is great or anything. But I don't know what games some people are looking when bashing DD defensive game.

I know the +/- stats isn't telling much, but still, you can't be in the + as much as he is if you're not producing while being bad defensively...

The Patches-DD-whoever line is Montreal's exploitation line. They get played against weaker competition and see mostly offensive zone starts. That will almost always lead to inflated +/- (another reason it's a worthless stat).

Grabovaki plays tougher minutes, with worse linemates and produces better possession and 5-on-5 numbers. He is a superior player and Desharnais in every way. That's not to bash DD, but Grabovski is highly underrated.

 

[LePoche69]

If he was talking about career PPG, Grabovski has never played a first line role and had his production reduced by Carlyle using him as a shutdown center, a role DD could never be used in. If he were used like DD in an exploitation role, his PPG would shoot up.

False. He did played first line in Toronto for awhile, and he was brought in Washington to play first line while developping the young guy. But the young guy turned out to be better than Grabovski right away, so Grabovski as the first line C didn't last long.

I know it isn't a popular view around here, but I agree with MonctonScout when he says that DD isn't the first line C. I my opinion, Minutes Played revealed who's your first line. Every coach plays his first line more minutes, it is easy to check. DD is centering the line counted for primary offensive result, but that doesn't mean it is "the first" line.

It works even when you look at it on an individual basis. Who is Habs best Centerman? Plekanec. Who is Habs best Right Winger? Gallagher (Sekac is making a case, but it is pretty new). Who is Habs best left winger? Pacioretty, with Galchenyuk closing the gap pretty fast...

So Plekanec is playing with the best right winger and the second best left winger. DD is playing with the best left winger and anybody on the right side. And Plek's line plays more minutes. So how does it makes DD's line "the first" ?

Basically, people are listing DD's line as "the first" only because of Pacioretty. Well I think even Therrien tried to fix that problem when he double-shifted Pacioretty the last few games when they were playing with 7 D. There is absolutly no rational in calling DD line "the first".

 

[Fazkovsky]

I think it's time to admit dd is an average second liner at best but a good ahl one

 

[Captain Mountain]

False. He did played first line in Toronto for awhile, and he was brought in Washington to play first line while developping the young guy. But the young guy turned out to be better than Grabovski right away, so Grabovski as the first line C didn't last long.

I know it isn't a popular view around here, but I agree with MonctonScout when he says that DD isn't the first line C. I my opinion, Minutes Played revealed who's your first line. Every coach plays his first line more minutes, it is easy to check. DD is centering the line counted for primary offensive result, but that doesn't mean it is "the first" line.

It works even when you look at it on an individual basis. Who is Habs best Centerman? Plekanec. Who is Habs best Right Winger? Gallagher (Sekac is making a case, but it is pretty new). Who is Habs best left winger? Pacioretty, with Galchenyuk closing the gap pretty fast...

So Plekanec is playing with the best right winger and the second best left winger. DD is playing with the best left winger and anybody on the right side. And Plek's line plays more minutes. So how does it makes DD's line "the first" ?

Basically, people are listing DD's line as "the first" only because of Pacioretty. Well I think even Therrien tried to fix that problem when he double-shifted Pacioretty the last few games when they were playing with 7 D. There is absolutly no rational in calling DD line "the first".

Grabovski was never brought in to Washington as a 1st line center, not with Backstrom. He was 2nd line Center and was very good in that role. He played the Plekanec role for them to perfection and they are missing him right now.

Montreal doesn't have a 1st line. At even strength, Plekanec has played a whole 5 seconds more per game than Desharnais. His line faces the tougher competition to get DD and Patches the softer minutes. And he and his linemates have done their job for the most part. The problem is that Patches and DD are the line that's supposed to produce offence and DD hasn't been doing that. Patches has and PAP and Gallagher are producing at an acceptable rate since they've both spent time in tougher minutes.

 

[Kimota]

Beaulieu...caused the first goal, was not benched and was there on the second goal, frankly he looked ridiculous there too. I'm starting to think he and Tiner have been badly developed in Hamilton.

 

[Haburger]

Beaulieu...caused the first goal, was not benched and was there on the second goal, frankly he looked ridiculous there too. I'm starting to think he and Tiner have been badly developed in Hamilton.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

False. He did played first line in Toronto for awhile, and he was brought in Washington to play first line while developping the young guy. But the young guy turned out to be better than Grabovski right away, so Grabovski as the first line C didn't last long.

I know it isn't a popular view around here, but I agree with MonctonScout when he says that DD isn't the first line C. I my opinion, Minutes Played revealed who's your first line. Every coach plays his first line more minutes, it is easy to check. DD is centering the line counted for primary offensive result, but that doesn't mean it is "the first" line.

It works even when you look at it on an individual basis. Who is Habs best Centerman? Plekanec. Who is Habs best Right Winger? Gallagher (Sekac is making a case, but it is pretty new). Who is Habs best left winger? Pacioretty, with Galchenyuk closing the gap pretty fast...

So Plekanec is playing with the best right winger and the second best left winger. DD is playing with the best left winger and anybody on the right side. And Plek's line plays more minutes. So how does it makes DD's line "the first" ?

Basically, people are listing DD's line as "the first" only because of Pacioretty. Well I think even Therrien tried to fix that problem when he double-shifted Pacioretty the last few games when they were playing with 7 D. There is absolutly no rational in calling DD line "the first".

Ok, he had some time on the first line ON THE WING and first wave PP in Washington and produced a fair share of points there, but he also played with Ward, Fehr, and Brouwer and generated points with them as well. A testament to his versatility at all ends of the ice. Meanwhile, DD murders our PP and isn't some defensive stalwart that can shut top end opposition down with grinders like Grabovski can. DD is only here to generated assists because he can't do anything else particularly well, and he hasn't even been doing that adeptly since he can't enhance players not named Pacioretty.

He might have played first line in Toronto, but he didn't seem to benefit from Kessel all that much. His first season's production primarily involved Ponikarovsky and buddy Kulemin. The year after, it was Kulemin, Ponikarovsky, Hagman, and Jason Blake. Then in 2010-2011, he at least got Clarke MacArthur and Kulemin. Something seems to be telling me these aren't really first liners here...where the **** is Kessel in his scoring logs?

The first line is typically the line used for offense and the second line is the team's collection of "next best" players. DD is used like a first liner. First wave PP, given our top goalscorer, and a revolving door of right wingers to complement him and Pacioretty. Doesn't play the penalty kill, and not required to play shutdown hockey against anyone.

A few takeaways and passes doesn't make a top defender or playmaker, respectively. DD can't even hold a candle to Ribeiro in terms of creativity and setting up goals for guys not named Pacioretty

 

[LaP]

I know it isn't a popular view around here, but I agree with MonctonScout when he says that DD isn't the first line C. I my opinion, Minutes Played revealed who's your first line. Every coach plays his first line more minutes, it is easy to check. DD is centering the line counted for primary offensive result, but that doesn't mean it is "the first" line.

It's doesn't really matter anyway as right now DD stats are not even good as a 2nd line center.

41 points in 82 games, 30 something points in 70 something games when you factor in the couple of games most guys miss cause of being sick or light injuries. That's 3rd line stats ... which is Eller line. So that's a problem.

Even if we consider Plekanec line the 1st line (i don't and while i like Plekanec he is not 1st line center material) DD still need to produce like a 2nd line center which he is not right now.

It doesn't matter if we like DD or not or if we consider him the 1st or 2nd line center. DD needs to do more.

 

[Michelangelo]

Beaulieu...caused the first goal, was not benched and was there on the second goal, frankly he looked ridiculous there too. I'm starting to think he and Tiner have been badly developed in Hamilton.

Sylvain 'Da Man' Lefebvre

 

[Habs Icing]

If you drop Desharnais' minutes by 6, then who's minutes increase? Who takes those minutes?

17 minus 13 isn't 6 it's 4. You give 3 of those four to Eller and the other to Malhorta. Or if you don't trust Malhorta give it to Pleks.

 

[Rapala]

Beaulieu...caused the first goal, was not benched and was there on the second goal, frankly he looked ridiculous there too. I'm starting to think he and Tiner have been badly developed in Hamilton.

They are not developping up here either...

 

[HABSonaroll]

They are not developping up here either...

Who runs our Defense - wasn't good against the Pens