Proposal: Wayne Simmonds to Bruins

[Hookslide]

do not need another 30 year old rental ,that will be to expensive to resign........

 

[Absurdity]

Ummm....so you want us to pretend Heinen and Konecny are the same because of point last year and ignore this year in which TK has 19 points and Heinen has 8????

This year matters too.

And honestly, Flyers fans don't care if you wouldn't trade Heinen for Simmonds. We know that SOME team will pay for Simmonds and what he brings. After all...he is still on pace for 28 goals this year.

I guess sophomore slumps don't exist anymore?

I by no means am comparing Heinen to Konecny on a case by case basis. I used Konecny as an example because he is a young player that has shown promise of becoming a great NHLer who just so happened to score 47pts last season. I was trying to show the poster that what Flyers fans see in a player like Konecny, most Bruins fans see in a player like Heinen. Both are young promising players who are currently on their ELCs, are under team control for quite a while longer, and have shown they can produce at the NHL level.

I don't think Flyers fans would want to trade Konecny for a 30 year old rental who may or may not re-sign and if he does re-sign, it will be a long-term contract for a high cap hit into his mid to late 30s. With that said, I don't think Heinen is untouchable, but I also don't think Sweeney would make that kind of move either. That's not to discredit Simmonds as a player because I like him quite a bit. In my opinion, I don't think he will return a young top 6F. Who knows I could be wrong.

 

[Tripod]

Lol at Konecny superior over 10 point this early in the season

No...Konecny is better because he is better, 2 years younger, better draft pedigree.

At TK's present age, Heinen had 8 career games played and no points.

Do you honestly think they have the same value?

 

[Starat327]

Half those goals came on the PP, which is fine, but I assume he was playing on Philly's PP1, I don't get to watch much Flyers games so if he played more on PP2 my apologies. Heinen saw PP2 duty and played on a line with Riley Nash and David Backes, who aren't world beaters.

Let's say Simmonds played on another team, and the Flyers were top 4 in their division and needed a winger, would you trade Konecny for Simmonds if you take into consideration production, age, contract, and team control?

Well, the problem is Heinen isn't nearly at Konecnys level, so that's a bad comparison.

 

[Tripod]

I guess sophomore slumps don't exist anymore?

I by no means am comparing Heinen to Konecny on a case by case basis. I used Konecny as an example because he is a young player that has shown promise of becoming a great NHLer who just so happened to score 47pts last season. I was trying to show the poster that what Flyers fans see in a player like Konecny, most Bruins fans see in a player like Heinen. Both are young promising players who are currently on their ELCs, are under team control for quite a while longer, and have shown they can produce at the NHL level.

I don't think Flyers fans would want to trade Konecny for a 30 year old rental who may or may not re-sign and if he does re-sign, it will be a long-term contract for a high cap hit into his mid to late 30s. With that said, I don't think Heinen is untouchable, but I also don't think Sweeney would make that kind of move either. That's not to discredit Simmonds as a player because I like him quite a bit. In my opinion, I don't think he will return a young top 6F. Who knows I could be wrong.

And that is all fair to say.

Not wanting to trade Heinen for a rental is ok to say. But to also say that Konecny and Heinen have similar value is not fair to say....due to age, draft pedigree, expected upside, etc...

Maybe the best way to explain it, is to take away team biasness. Does Debrusk and Heinen have the same value in your eyes? I think around the league, Debrusk certainly has more value due to age and draft pedigree. Konecny is no different.

 

[Starat327]

Exactly... of course he wouldnt

But on opposite shoes...pure greed

Expecting fair value is not greed. Even a Boston fan in this thread has said that Heinen would be a relatively fair ask.

Don't confuse me being greedy and you being cheap because ya got burnt on the Nash deal. That isn't our problem that you over paid for a clearly declining player - of which, Simmonds is not.

 

[Curufinwe]

Simmonds is declining which is why Hextall wouldn't give him term and 95% of our board don't want him extended.

But, that doesn't mean he doesn't have major value a a rental.

 

[Flyerfan47]

So what do you want then

Simmonds is not worth a 1st round pick

Your GM gave us a 3rd for Rinaldo so what do you think a proven 30 goal power forward gets you ?

 

[Larry44]

Degrading a player you're trying to acquire - A HF tale as old as time.

HF Trade Rumours Forum formula:
OP: How much for Player X ? Will you take Player Y and Pick Z?
Fan1: No, that's not enough, we'd need Player T and Pick S.
OP: What? For a piece of garbage like Player X? You're delusional.
Fan1: If he sucks so badly, why do you want him so desperately?
Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

 

[rocketdan9]

Your GM gave us a 3rd for Rinaldo so what do you think a proven 30 goal power forward gets you ?

Call it an inexperience rookie gm move

Just bc you found money on the floor dont think it will happen again

 

[BB88]

Boston is the last team I would want to see Simmonds traded anyway. It would make my stomach turn.

I truly hope your GM feels the same.

 

[firstemperor]

Simmonds is declining and is already a rental as is. I don't think Flyer fans will be excited by his return....I could see a 1st but not that much more.

IMO, Flyers have to play their cards right or trade at a loss (like Buffalo did with Kane at the TDL).

With that said, he does fit a bit of what we need on my team. Just hard to fit him in cap-wise, and our depth at RW.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Trash. 2 C-Prospects/Players and a 3rd doesn't get it done. How much better was Rick Nash than Wayne Simmonds? He got a 1st, roster player, B Prospect and a capdump from your Bruins. I remember most HF posters thinking Simmonds was/is better than Nasher.

That's when the Bruins had a 112 points team with a strong chance at winning the Cup... Overpaying was worth the gamble, then.

 

[easton117]

If, big if, Boston went all in this year I’d do Heinen and a 2nd.

I’d then do anything possible to get one of Duchene , Tofolli, Carter or Hayes (not Jimmy. Bless his gentle giant heart).

Maybe find a 3rd/4th line banger with a mean streak if one exists anymore.

I would accept that this is it and they will probably rebuild the next year or shortly thereafter.

One last true cup run for the Bergeron Krejci combo.

 

[achdumeingute]

That's when the Bruins had a 112 points team with a strong chance at winning the Cup... Overpaying was worth the gamble, then.

no problem..makes perfect sense why the B's wouldn't make the deal. Most of us understand.

Gotta hang up now because a better offer is on line 2.

 

[Larry44]

Simmonds is declining and is already a rental as is. I don't think Flyer fans will be excited by his return....I could see a 1st but not that much more.

IMO, Flyers have to play their cards right or trade at a loss (like Buffalo did with Kane at the TDL).

With that said, he does fit a bit of what we need on my team. Just hard to fit him in cap-wise, and our depth at RW.

We'll see. A lot of teams have a shot at making a Cup run. The Leafs are very likely going to have to play Boston in the first round. Do you want to risk a shot at the Cup because you lack the toughness to stand up to the Bruins again? Is it worth a 1st in the 27-31 range and a decent prospect to rent some pugnacity insurance?

I can see several teams in both Conferences looking at Simmonds for the same reason. He can score. He's a netfront presence at a time of year when the games tighten up. He can fight if he needs to. He has value.

I don't know what kind of offers he'll get in the offseason, but he'll be going somewhere else before then.

 

[Dr Quincy]

To Flyers - Cehlarik, Clifton, 3rd round pick
To Bruins - Simmonds

Yeah 3 pieces that are really easy to part with don't get you anything useful.

 

[tictactoe]

Flyers will get 1st round pick and prospect. Bruins, Tampa. Leafs, maybe Caps, maybe Predators or Jets will all be interested in simmonds

 

[Martin Skoula]

Simmonds has had exactly 1 good playoff run and that was a 7 game sample over 5 years ago. Even with that run, he paces at a 15 goal/40 point pace in the playoffs despite the fact that he gets heavy #1 PP time. Counting on Simmonds to be the piece to put you over the top in the playoffs is an absolute joke, he's depth in case one of your actually good offensive wingers gets injured. Anyone who pays a 1st + prospect for him is going to regret it worse than the Rick Nash deal. At least Nash wasn't a joke defensively and didn't need to be heavily sheltered at ES.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I guess there's no deal to be made here.

Boston fans want to pay below what his market value is, Philly fans won't accept the trash deals as the market has proven over and over again that Simmonds will get a 1st+.

/Thread.

 

[JRull86]

Keep him Donny got burnt on Nash deal last year he won't give anything substantial this year. He has deer in the headlights syndrome when he makes trades.

Still would love to know how a 1st and a bottom 4D prospect is getting burnt on a deal for a rental winger at the TDL.

Simmonds absolutely is going to get the Flyers a 1st+ if they deal him.

Bruins shouldn't pay that, because frankly they shouldn't be making deals for rentals this year.

 

[Absurdity]

And that is all fair to say.

Not wanting to trade Heinen for a rental is ok to say. But to also say that Konecny and Heinen have similar value is not fair to say....due to age, draft pedigree, expected upside, etc...

Maybe the best way to explain it, is to take away team biasness. Does Debrusk and Heinen have the same value in your eyes? I think around the league, Debrusk certainly has more value due to age and draft pedigree. Konecny is no different.

It wasn't my intention to compare Heinen's value to Konecny's, but rather to show a Flyers fan(s) why dealing Heinen for Simmonds wouldn't make much sense from a Bruins perspective by using a Flyers player as an example. I should have been clearer in that regard.

I also think you are spot on in terms of Konecny's value, closer if not equal to DeBrusk's and more than Heinen's.

 

[Starat327]

It wasn't my intention to compare Heinen's value to Konecny's, but rather to show a Flyers fan(s) why dealing Heinen for Simmonds wouldn't make much sense from a Bruins perspective by using a Flyers player as an example. I should have been clearer in that regard.

I also think you are spot on in terms of Konecny's value, closer if not equal to DeBrusk's and more than Heinen's.

I understood what you were going for, but making a point using a much higher valued player just ruins the argument.

To answer your original question - if my team was close to a contender, I absolutely include Heinen in a deal if I think that player puts my team over the top.

The problem here is, I don't know how the OP values Simmonds. Based on his OP, and even his revised offer, I'd say not much, so he probably doesn't feel he's that piece, and as such, trading Heinen doesn't make sense. However, that doesn't change what Philly should expect in return. We aren't in the business of exclusively helping the B's.

 

[Absurdity]

I understood what you were going for, but making a point using a much higher valued player just ruins the argument.

To answer your original question - if my team was close to a contender, I absolutely include Heinen in a deal if I think that player puts my team over the top.

The problem here is, I don't know how the OP values Simmonds. Based on his OP, and even his revised offer, I'd say not much, so he probably doesn't feel he's that piece, and as such, trading Heinen doesn't make sense. However, that doesn't change what Philly should expect in return. We aren't in the business of exclusively helping the B's.

I wouldn't include a Heinen type player in a deal for a rental, so I guess we can agree to disagree there. I'm not opposed to the Bruins packaging a player like Heinen for a better player, which Simmonds is in the short term, but if I were Sweeney, I would want a player in their prime that has term left. A player that can help them more than one or a few seasons.

In my opinion, it just doesn't make much sense for the Bruins to pay that price again two years in a row. Sweeney himself came out saying he hated not having a 1st round pick at last year's draft so I don't think the Bruins and Flyers make that much sense as trading partners for a player like Simmonds.

However, if the Flyers do in fact trade Simmonds, I think they will get much more than what the OP is offering. The Flyers will most likely get a return similar, maybe more, to what the Bruins gave up for Rick Nash at last year's trade deadline, without a cap dump.

 

[Tripod]

It wasn't my intention to compare Heinen's value to Konecny's, but rather to show a Flyers fan(s) why dealing Heinen for Simmonds wouldn't make much sense from a Bruins perspective by using a Flyers player as an example. I should have been clearer in that regard.

I also think you are spot on in terms of Konecny's value, closer if not equal to DeBrusk's and more than Heinen's.

I think Konecny and Debrusks value is very close...but with a slight edge to Konecny:

This year: TK 19 pts, JD 12 pts
Last year: TK 47 pts, JD 43 in 70
2 years ago: TK 28 pts, JD played in AHL

But yeah, we both agree that a Heinen ask for Simmonds is not the same as a DeBrusk/TK ask. And that was the point I was making. For Philly, TK has been better than Simmonds for almost 1.5 years so using TK as the example didn't make sense to Flyers fans.

Anyways, there are some Bruins fans that have said that Simmonds value will be a 1st, others think he is worth way less. Time will tell who is right if he is moved. But seeing past deals, he certainly appears to be worth that.