W Nikita Kucherov (2011, 58th overall, Tampa Bay)

[KuliTank7]

That would be my guess. I dont see a team wanting to use there 1st rounder on him outside of maybe the Red Wings as the risk is too high given the uncertainty over if he would ever come over

I also think so. The Blues own multiple 2nd-Round-Picks, maybe they pick him up.

 

[JawandaPuck]

At the NHL Combine (100+ participants), Kucherov finished 8th (tied with Adam Larsson) in the VO2max, and had the 7th best time in the 4 jump (with Daniel Catenacci in 6th and Sven Baertchi in 8th).

EDIT: As testing continued into the second day, he got pushed out of the top ten in both categories.

The CSS site lists Kucherov as 5'10.5" 171 lbs.

 

[UpsideHockey]

E-Mac has anointed him Kucherov "Mr. Gamebreaker"

- Profile Link

 

[Scouter]

Is Kucherov going to come over to play in the CHL next season, will he be taken in the import draft?

 

[malkinfan]

no, has contract and assurance of playing on the main KHL team CSKA.

 

[Kershaw]

What is his upside and can we see him playing in NA anytime soon? His stats are better than Grigorenko's on the same U-17 Russian team but he was draft eligible a year earlier and picked by Tampa in round 2. How did he slip this much?

 

[Vaclav Varada]

What is his upside and can we see him playing in NA anytime soon? His stats are better than Grigorenko's on the same U-17 Russian team but he was draft eligible a year earlier and picked by Tampa in round 2. How did he slip this much?

He's a Russian playing in Russia. The 2nd round is high for a Russian player now a days

 

[TheBakester66]

guys relax... yes, CHL and AHL are crappy leagues when you compare them to KHL. Kucherov has a great chance to play in KHL next season. Why should he go to NA? to play in juniors? to play in AHL which is not so good as KHL? That makes no sense for me

The KHL is a men's league designed for one thing: winning. The AHL and CHL are both moreso about developing players. Certainly at Kucherov's level, he could come into the CHL and earn top ice time based on his ability level alone. Is it better for him to play 3rd or 4th line in the KHL like Tarasenko did at 17/18? Or is it better to play 20 minutes a night in the CHL? At the AHL level, you still get the opportunity to tune your game to the North American rink, while also playing with potential future teammates at the NHL level. It also presents much more game opportunities than the hunkered down KHL does. Pt/Game scorers or near pt/game scorers are littered throughout the AHL, you're lucky to have a few guys do that in the KHL in any given year. The AHL also allows you to get used to an 82 game schedule.

I'd love to understand where this pro KHL attitude stems from. The big benefit of playing in the KHL is typically the money, which for many fringe players (like a Sergei Shirokov, Brandon Bochenski, Josef Vasicek, or in this case, a prospect that isn't quite NHL ready yet) ends up being quite a bit better in the KHL than it does in the NHL, especially after you factor in taxes, or if the player is on a two-way contract in north america. So that is one big reason to stay in the KHL if you're Sergei Mozyakin or Jaromir Jagr or Alexander Radulov or Maxim Sushinsky. Or if you're washed up like Fedorov, Yashin, Hasek, etc.

 

[Zine]

The KHL is a men's league designed for one thing: winning. The AHL and CHL are both moreso about developing players. Certainly at Kucherov's level, he could come into the CHL and earn top ice time based on his ability level alone. Is it better for him to play 3rd or 4th line in the KHL like Tarasenko did at 17/18? Or is it better to play 20 minutes a night in the CHL? At the AHL level, you still get the opportunity to tune your game to the North American rink, while also playing with potential future teammates at the NHL level. It also presents much more game opportunities than the hunkered down KHL does. Pt/Game scorers or near pt/game scorers are littered throughout the AHL, you're lucky to have a few guys do that in the KHL in any given year. The AHL also allows you to get used to an 82 game schedule.

I'd love to understand where this pro KHL attitude stems from. The big benefit of playing in the KHL is typically the money, which for many fringe players (like a Sergei Shirokov, Brandon Bochenski, Josef Vasicek, or in this case, a prospect that isn't quite NHL ready yet) ends up being quite a bit better in the KHL than it does in the NHL, especially after you factor in taxes, or if the player is on a two-way contract in north america. So that is one big reason to stay in the KHL if you're Sergei Mozyakin or Jaromir Jagr or Alexander Radulov or Maxim Sushinsky. Or if you're washed up like Fedorov, Yashin, Hasek, etc.

There's been a million discussions on this already.

Statistically speaking, the CHL has been a terrible place for Russians to develop. Does it mean the CHL is a bad development league? Not at all. Does it mean every Russian will falter in the CHL? Not at all. However, if we look at development trends, the chances of him not developing properly magifies if he, in fact, chooses the CHL route.

 

[TheBakester66]

There's been a million discussions on this already.

Statistically speaking, the CHL has been a terrible place for Russians to develop. Does it mean the CHL is a bad development league? Not at all. Does it mean every Russian will falter in the CHL? Not at all. However, if we look at development trends, the chances of him not developing properly magifies if he, in fact, chooses the CHL route.

Well i don't think that CHL development has been any worse on Europeans than development within their own country. There is a reason that prospects are flocking to the CHL from Europe now more than ever. I think what they're learning now is that it's important to join the CHL at 15 or 16 (like Landeskog, Frk, Yakupov, Namestnikov, etc.) not after 17 or 18 like Grachev.

I don't like the argument that Filatov's development was hurt by going to the AHL. He was a pt/game player in two AHL stints, which is typically the metric required to make and stick in the NHL the following season.

It's also different for someone of Yakupov's abilities and someone of say Kulemin's abilities. Kulemin wasn't NHL ready until at least 21. Yakupov is NHL ready now. Kucherov is at Yakupov's level, if not higher, which makes this an interesting case. The reason the MHL was created was to give the best youngsters a place to develop so they didn't have to have the KHL slammed down their throats if they were not ready. Not every player is physically ready to play in the KHL at 16 like Tarasenko. Kucherov was off the charts on my projections last season, but since many people in North America had no clue who he was it was hard to get a read on his ability level. Add to that the fact that he's in a relatively new league in the MHL (if you don't count Russia3), and it makes for one interesting case.

For me, I think the Yakupov/ Grigorenko battle will ultimately decide the preferred path long-term, if one these guys falters and the other succeeds. Congrats to Tampa Bay on getting him 58th. Wish the Blues had thrown one of their three 2nd rounders at him.

 

[Raptactics29]

Does anyone think someone will throw a pick at Kucherov in the import draft? Does anyone think he'll cross the pond or is the money too enticing?

 

[Zine]

Well i don't think that CHL development has been any worse on Europeans than development within their own country. There is a reason that prospects are flocking to the CHL from Europe now more than ever. I think what they're learning now is that it's important to join the CHL at 15 or 16 (like Landeskog, Frk, Yakupov, Namestnikov, etc.) not after 17 or 18 like Grachev.

I don't like the argument that Filatov's development was hurt by going to the AHL. He was a pt/game player in two AHL stints, which is typically the metric required to make and stick in the NHL the following season.

It's also different for someone of Yakupov's abilities and someone of say Kulemin's abilities. Kulemin wasn't NHL ready until at least 21. Yakupov is NHL ready now. Kucherov is at Yakupov's level, if not higher, which makes this an interesting case. The reason the MHL was created was to give the best youngsters a place to develop so they didn't have to have the KHL slammed down their throats if they were not ready. Not every player is physically ready to play in the KHL at 16 like Tarasenko. Kucherov was off the charts on my projections last season, but since many people in North America had no clue who he was it was hard to get a read on his ability level. Add to that the fact that he's in a relatively new league in the MHL (if you don't count Russia3), and it makes for one interesting case.

For me, I think the Yakupov/ Grigorenko battle will ultimately decide the preferred path long-term, if one these guys falters and the other succeeds. Congrats to Tampa Bay on getting him 58th. Wish the Blues had thrown one of their three 2nd rounders at him.

Can't comment on Europeans as a whole, but for Russians (especially forwards) yes, the CHL has been a graveyard.
Apart from Radulov, there's been extremely limited success (maybe Burmistrov or Valeri Bure too). We're talking 3 success stories out of the numerous higher regarded forards to play CHL since the mid-1990s. And only 1 is an elite player.

You can point to Yakupov or Galchenyuk's success...but it's too early to make any judgements. Same goes for Tarasenko or Kuznetsov.

BTW, the reason players are flocking to the CHL at a younger age is to nullify the "Russian factor". It's one of the consequences of not having a transfer agreement. Therefore, it should be of no surprise that Larionov (NA based NHL agent) is luring these kids to NA at an earlier age.

Again, the CHL is a great development league - but its primarily a NA league.
It's very risky for a player to be developed in a style/school, then switch directions half-way through. You end up with a hybrid of both without either style being mastered.
It's MUCH safer to fully develop within one style/school then, when ready, adapt that to the NA game.

 

[pouskin74*]

Yakupov is NHL ready now. Kucherov is at Yakupov's level, if not higher

dont think so

 

[TheBakester66]

Can't comment on Europeans as a whole, but for Russians (especially forwards) yes, the CHL has been a graveyard.
Apart from Radulov, there's been extremely limited success (maybe Burmistrov or Valeri Bure too). We're talking 3 success stories out of the numerous higher regarded forards to play CHL since the mid-1990s. And only 1 is an elite player.

You can point to Yakupov or Galchenyuk's success...but it's too early to make any judgements. Same goes for Tarasenko or Kuznetsov.

BTW, the reason players are flocking to the CHL at a younger age is to nullify the "Russian factor". It's one of the consequences of not having a transfer agreement. Therefore, it should be of no surprise that Larionov (NA based NHL agent) is luring these kids to NA at an earlier age.

Again, the CHL is a great development league - but its primarily a NA league.
It's very risky for a player to be developed in a style/school, then switch directions half-way through. You end up with a hybrid of both without either style being mastered.
It's MUCH safer to fully develop within one style/school then, when ready, adapt that to the NA game.

A few things.

1) Landeskog, Martin Frk, Tomas Jurco, et al. do not have to worry about the lack of a transfer agreement, they just realize that its best to learn what they can at the junior level in their home countries and progress on to the CHL at 15/16 years old. That seems to be the recent trend anyways. In countries like Slovakia and the Czech Republic, this seems to be a no brainer. The talent level in their home leagues just isn't strong enough to progress top talents properly. In Sweden and Finland, we have seen many players develop in their home countries. Is Landeskog the first of many to go the CHL route? He has a very developed North American style game, perhaps he knew he was suited for that style of play. In Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, you've seen most players either transfer to Finland/Sweden or go to the CHL at 16/17 in recent years. Neiderreiter, Jensen, Bartschi, etc.

2) The problem is that in the past, the CHL was considered if the player wasn't quite AHL ready but wanted to come over to America after being drafted (for whatever reason, cases like Radulov and Grachev). For those players, I could see why they would be setup for failure, because many of these types of players are not strong enough mentally and emotionally to handle a transition of this magnitude without complete confidence in their game. For every radulov you hit on, you could easily miss the boat on the next guy.

3) If you aren't a top Russian talent (or truely a top overall talent) then you should stay at home where you're comfortable and where you can worry about your game alone because your game needs work. The MHL/KHL can truely prepare you for the NHL if that's what you're looking for.

4) Which leads us to top flight Russians. The Russians have the best proving ground outside of the CHL/AHL/NHL route in the world. For the elite talents, the MHL/KHL route will properly prepare a player, provided they should stick it out in the KHL until they are "ready" for North America. Ready can mean many things, but to me, it means prepared (read: talented enough) to land a starting gig in the NHL. Which depends on the age, but typically means you need to be scoring .7Pts/GP roughly at least at the KHL level for an offensive forward. And if they are not emotionally mature, perhaps even better just to be safe. As mentioned earlier, the lack of a transfer agreement has actually come back to bite the KHL, as players are choosing to leave the country at the junior level rather than sign an introductory contract in the KHL. No one wants to be the next Kabanov. So, yes, for many of these guys, going the CHL route was a lesser of two evils, rather than an ideal scenario. But what I think you're going to find here is that the 16-year old North American trained forwards will have NHL staying power that many non-CHL trained russian forwards seem to lack. Many of the best Russians at the KHL level struggle to succeed in the AHL/NHL, despite having been trained entirely in Russia, or mastering the Russian system. So I'll be curious to see how Yakupov, Namestnikov, et al. turn out.

Parting shot:

My personal take for an elite Russian talent is that you either need to go the Namestnikov, Yakupov, Khochlachev route, and go CHL early, or you need to ride out the KHL route until you're NHL "ready." If you are a super elite talent like an Ovechkin or Malkin, you might be best served staying in the KHL, simply because the talent level is so much greater than the CHL. But if you have concerns about ice time at the KHL level, I would probably suggest the CHL route. Better to get tons of ice time and learn some things about the NA game in the CHL than to become buried in obscurity in the KHL (perhaps the MHL begins to make this point moot).

 

[Kshahdoo]

Kucherov is 18 years old so it's good time for him to start playing on men level. Tarasenko started to play on it being 2 years younger. And big ice kinda helps undersized young players to get adapted to men's game.

 

[UkraineTrain]

A few things.

1) Landeskog, Martin Frk, Tomas Jurco, et al. do not have to worry about the lack of a transfer agreement, they just realize that its best to learn what they can at the junior level in their home countries and progress on to the CHL at 15/16 years old. That seems to be the recent trend anyways. In countries like Slovakia and the Czech Republic, this seems to be a no brainer. The talent level in their home leagues just isn't strong enough to progress top talents properly. In Sweden and Finland, we have seen many players develop in their home countries. Is Landeskog the first of many to go the CHL route? He has a very developed North American style game, perhaps he knew he was suited for that style of play. In Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, you've seen most players either transfer to Finland/Sweden or go to the CHL at 16/17 in recent years. Neiderreiter, Jensen, Bartschi, etc.

2) The problem is that in the past, the CHL was considered if the player wasn't quite AHL ready but wanted to come over to America after being drafted (for whatever reason, cases like Radulov and Grachev). For those players, I could see why they would be setup for failure, because many of these types of players are not strong enough mentally and emotionally to handle a transition of this magnitude without complete confidence in their game. For every radulov you hit on, you could easily miss the boat on the next guy.

3) If you aren't a top Russian talent (or truely a top overall talent) then you should stay at home where you're comfortable and where you can worry about your game alone because your game needs work. The MHL/KHL can truely prepare you for the NHL if that's what you're looking for.

4) Which leads us to top flight Russians. The Russians have the best proving ground outside of the CHL/AHL/NHL route in the world. For the elite talents, the MHL/KHL route will properly prepare a player, provided they should stick it out in the KHL until they are "ready" for North America. Ready can mean many things, but to me, it means prepared (read: talented enough) to land a starting gig in the NHL. Which depends on the age, but typically means you need to be scoring .7Pts/GP roughly at least at the KHL level for an offensive forward. And if they are not emotionally mature, perhaps even better just to be safe. As mentioned earlier, the lack of a transfer agreement has actually come back to bite the KHL, as players are choosing to leave the country at the junior level rather than sign an introductory contract in the KHL. No one wants to be the next Kabanov. So, yes, for many of these guys, going the CHL route was a lesser of two evils, rather than an ideal scenario. But what I think you're going to find here is that the 16-year old North American trained forwards will have NHL staying power that many non-CHL trained russian forwards seem to lack. Many of the best Russians at the KHL level struggle to succeed in the AHL/NHL, despite having been trained entirely in Russia, or mastering the Russian system. So I'll be curious to see how Yakupov, Namestnikov, et al. turn out.

Parting shot:

My personal take for an elite Russian talent is that you either need to go the Namestnikov, Yakupov, Khochlachev route, and go CHL early, or you need to ride out the KHL route until you're NHL "ready." If you are a super elite talent like an Ovechkin or Malkin, you might be best served staying in the KHL, simply because the talent level is so much greater than the CHL. But if you have concerns about ice time at the KHL level, I would probably suggest the CHL route. Better to get tons of ice time and learn some things about the NA game in the CHL than to become buried in obscurity in the KHL (perhaps the MHL begins to make this point moot).

Well done! It's hard to say any better than this.

 

[vorky]

I will be suprised if Kucherov choose CHL route. He can make a KHL roster next season for sure. And I think he has a KHL contract. For example Grigorenko does not have.

 

[TheBakester66]

I will be suprised if Kucherov choose CHL route. He can make a KHL roster next season for sure. And I think he has a KHL contract. For example Grigorenko does not have.

Again, at Kucherov's level, i don't think he really needs to worry either way, as he's good enough offensively to get top 6 KHL ice time. Tampa is going to take it's time with him and let him develop for 2 or 3 years in the KHL. At that time, he will be top 6 NHL ready. That doesn't mean that the CHL wouldn't also work for him, but I think that's a choice that needs to be made before your draft year, not after.

The other thing not mentioned here is that it's hard for these CHL teams to invest in a top European talent when they come over at 18 because they will most likely not stay beyond one or two seasons. When you come over at 15/16, you're guaranteed at least 2 seasons if not 3 or 4, the developmental perspective of the coaches is different when you represent a long-term investment for the team.

 

[Raptactics29]

So, what does everything think HF will grade him? My guess is a 8.5D personally solely on ability but he's a risk to never jump the pond. IMHO, Nikita is as gifted as anyone in the 2011 draft if not the most gifted. Who knows.. Anyway, no bashing, just what everyone thinks.. I'm very interested to know what others think.

 

[member 30781]

So, what does everything think HF will grade him? My guess is a 8.5D personally solely on ability but he's a risk to never jump the pond. IMHO, Nikita is as gifted as anyone in the 2011 draft if not the most gifted. Who knows.. Anyway, no bashing, just what everyone thinks.. I'm very interested to know what others think.

Not according to Al Murray:

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-non-russian-factor-nhl-theory-may-become-obsolete/

 

[Raptactics29]

Not according to Al Murray:

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-non-russian-factor-nhl-theory-may-become-obsolete/

He's definitely still a risk.. there's no denying that.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Future TB all star.

 

[R S]

Was he drafted in the 2011 CHL import draft?

 

[chasespace]

Was he drafted in the 2011 CHL import draft?

No. He will be playing with CSKA in the KHL this coming season.

Fun fact: One of Kucherov's coach in the MHL was Vladislav Namestnikov's father, he is being upgraded to coaching CSKA's KHL squad so he will join Kucherov there. Yzerman really plans these things out

 

[R S]

Surprised a team wouldn't have gambled on him with a 2nd round import pick. I mean, even if it's not this year, it might pay off next year.

Although that's a tough sell to a kid who can make a pro paycheque instead.