HockeySauce
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- Jan 26, 2011
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I'd take him with a 2nd, even with the chance he doesn't come over.
High-end skill, worth the risk IMO.
High-end skill, worth the risk IMO.
W Nikita Kucherov (2011, 58th overall, Tampa Bay)
- Thread starter MrGeno101
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Nobody in this draft has the lightning quick release and shot this kid has -I have not seen anything like it since Mike Bossy----I also saw this kid play with urgency and using forecheck and backcheeck in the game vs. Canada -so the poster who said he was just another skilled butsoft one-way type f Russkie seems way off base to me..
6'0 165 is not "small" --yes he needs to fill out and bulk up--BUT he could be a once in a generation type SNIPER --you don't need those guys to be board dominators-aslong as they commit to be willing to check to a decent level of non-incompetence then that is all you can desire ...but with that special release and shot -wellvery few guys have it to the degree this kid does...
What you do is find a spot for that giftof talent. You then compliment him with a 2-way centre and a Big tough LW to do the dirty work for the line--THEN you have Gillies Trottier and Bossy "magic" --well tis kid COULD be another Bossy --mix him with the right other 2 elemnts either already on your team or in your pipeline OR maybe you have 1 of the other 2 elemnnts only--then draft or trade for the missing element of such a trio...BUT the hardest part of putting together such a trio is the
once in a generation SNIPER type..they just do not come around often.
So this kid is either Bossy re-done OR he'llbustas another Chistov Russkie who cannot adjust to NA rinks and life over in the NHl --that is one risk along with the KHL risk...BUT if the kid's agents tell him he could be an NHL superstar--and if he can adjust to the NA rinks,style and lifestyle THEN you could win the bet bigtime-maybe the BPA of this draft-that is how good the talent looks..
So he is the real WILDCARD now in this draft--how high willhe go .Some team my gamble a lot earlier than most would think. So big risk-but potentially the very highest of payoffs...the release and shot ARE SPECIAL -goalies do not stand much of a chance..
6'0 165 is not "small" --yes he needs to fill out and bulk up--BUT he could be a once in a generation type SNIPER --you don't need those guys to be board dominators-aslong as they commit to be willing to check to a decent level of non-incompetence then that is all you can desire ...but with that special release and shot -wellvery few guys have it to the degree this kid does...
What you do is find a spot for that giftof talent. You then compliment him with a 2-way centre and a Big tough LW to do the dirty work for the line--THEN you have Gillies Trottier and Bossy "magic" --well tis kid COULD be another Bossy --mix him with the right other 2 elemnts either already on your team or in your pipeline OR maybe you have 1 of the other 2 elemnnts only--then draft or trade for the missing element of such a trio...BUT the hardest part of putting together such a trio is the
once in a generation SNIPER type..they just do not come around often.
So this kid is either Bossy re-done OR he'llbustas another Chistov Russkie who cannot adjust to NA rinks and life over in the NHl --that is one risk along with the KHL risk...BUT if the kid's agents tell him he could be an NHL superstar--and if he can adjust to the NA rinks,style and lifestyle THEN you could win the bet bigtime-maybe the BPA of this draft-that is how good the talent looks..
So he is the real WILDCARD now in this draft--how high willhe go .Some team my gamble a lot earlier than most would think. So big risk-but potentially the very highest of payoffs...the release and shot ARE SPECIAL -goalies do not stand much of a chance..
I agree with you, this guy is not a one way forward he has the skills to pick peoples pockets and even fore check like you said just watch his game against Canada but the fact is even though he is not a huge guy hes still only 17 years old atm turning 18 in June so its not like its a big deal he still has plenty of time to bulk up but whats really amazing is at the age of 17 the kid was able to hold his own and do amazing in the KHL so the kid has mad potential.
Also I would like to comment on the whole develop in NA or develop in Russia it really all comes down to the players style. If your tearing up Juniors already would coming over to NA to just play in a junior like atmosphere really help you? I don't think so. They might as well stay over in the KHL like Kuelmin did and when they are ready take the jump to the NHL if they so chose.
Anyways whoever picks Nikita they are getting a player with a shot, speed, stick skills, hockey sense and even the ability to pass. Looking at some mock drafts they have this guy going late I see someone stepping up and taking him in the late 1st round or early 2nd.
Also I would like to comment on the whole develop in NA or develop in Russia it really all comes down to the players style. If your tearing up Juniors already would coming over to NA to just play in a junior like atmosphere really help you? I don't think so. They might as well stay over in the KHL like Kuelmin did and when they are ready take the jump to the NHL if they so chose.
Anyways whoever picks Nikita they are getting a player with a shot, speed, stick skills, hockey sense and even the ability to pass. Looking at some mock drafts they have this guy going late I see someone stepping up and taking him in the late 1st round or early 2nd.
I think it'll take a big market team to draft him like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, places like that to convince him to come over. He'd be playing on the biggest stages in the world and be coming to the best organizations.
(Not saying any of those teams would draft him though)
(Not saying any of those teams would draft him though)
Despite his talent, I don't think anybody will pick Kucherov in 1st/2nd round unless they're very certain he's committed to playing in N.A.
Nowadays, I can't see a team spending a high pick on somebody they might have to play the 'will he/won't he come over' game with.
I agree to an extent. The teams in rebuild mode will not chance a high pick on a guy who may not come over. However, I believe that a team that is close to the playoffs, or close to the cup and are just missing that "piece" will make the pick without hesitation.
Also, I think the fear of him coming not coming over are a bit overstated. I read an interview a few weeks back where he said his grandparents (I think. Maybe parents, I read it a while back) are already in the US.
EDIT: Found the article. It says his parents have been living in New York for the last 2 years:
http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/454965
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Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
If Hawks walk away with Kucherov at #36 I would be very pleased. We have 2 2nd's (36th and 44th) + 2 3rd's
So taking a gamble at #36 wont kill us
So taking a gamble at #36 wont kill us
JawandaPuck
Lost Art of Dynasty
Get ready to rearrange your mock drafts. Someone is finally showing some first round Kuchie-Koo Love.
JawandaPuck
Lost Art of Dynasty
Yes, that is correct, after Kucherov completes his KHL service, his NHL rights would still belong, for all intents and purposes, to the NHL team that drafts him in 2011.
Its worth noting though, KHL deals are not guaranteed. And therefore, either party has the right to void any remaining term of their contract if they so choose. (Evgeny Nabakov is a an example of a player voiding his contract, and Kyle Wellwood is an example of where the team voided the player's contract.
Back to Nikita Kucherov, I would hazard to guess that he will remain in the KHL until at least the completion of the 2013-14 (that's three post-NHL draft seasons) since this path will better ensure a roster spot with the Russian Olympic team for the 2014 Sochi games. In addition, Kucherov may have grown up in Moscow, but he was born in a far away town called Maykop, which is relatively close to Sochi, both situated near the majestic Black Sea...
Proposed Olympic Village for Sochi (man-made island shaped like the map of Russia)...
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Would love to see the Red Wings take him with their 1st. Has their style of play written all over him.
JawandaPuck
Lost Art of Dynasty
Craig Button has him at #18 on his top 30 list now...that is the highest spot for him I've seen any scouting expert or ranking org ..
I keep debating with myself about the risk /reward ---even if teams do not take the risk for their first rounder with him despite the fact he is as talented a BPA as any top 5 forward in this draft if not even the best BPA of them all --I cannot see him getting past rond 2 at the latest-especially if teams having multiple picks--speaking of which--COLORADO has 2 picks in round #1--IF they agree KUCHEROV could be a special BPA -maybe they use the #11 overall for him? Even if they have to wait 3 more years before he comes over..
Anyway he is the WILDCARD of this draft--could go round one even earlier than anyone expects---OR the NHL teams could just stay with safer picks who do not have to compete with the KHL for his services. Impatient teams will obviously pass on him if they are counting on infusing their first rounder right away (like with Skinner and CAR) or even in 2 years-- to know you won't see this guy for 3 seasons -it means a team at the top and with a ready stockpile from their farm for infusion MIGHT risk a first rounder on him and simply wait for him-but the teams who can't afford such a wait -willnot..
IRONICALLY such expectation for only LATE first round to probably mid -2nd at the latest -especially for teams with multiple 2nds-- have the effect of lowering theNHL team cap for Kucherov's entry deal when he signs it VS. if he went per his BPA value (as a top 5) where the cap hit is a lot more...THIS means KHL teams may be able to fend off the NHL even longer than the 3 years unless Kucherov goes early first round..So this "delay" in risking on him actually increases the risk he might not come over -if he becomes a huge KHL star maybe they throw gobs of $$$ at him to jeep him there.
THUS the RISK on him given the KHL reality is really a sort of double risk ..IF a team takes him very early in round one-they have a better chance of getting him over earlier...the longer you delay selecting him--the greater the KHL risk theykeep himlonger...so he is a fascinating WILDCARD for this draft..Will an NHL team surprise us (a la BLAKE WHEELER) and send the TSN draft panel and Bob McKenzieinto apoplexy on the surprise "going off the board" according to their rankings?
THE draft early surprise scenario also must way the "small market" risk factor--MAYBE KUCHEROV would not stay in Russia if NYR drafts him at #15 but would stay home if say WINNIPEG tookhimat #7 even thogh he'd get a bigger Entry contract earning potential (if he makes all his bonuses)?
So KUCHEROV given all these issues IS the MIMITD (Most Interesting Man In The Draft)--how this resolves willbe fascinating to watch.. WHO risks on himand how soon?
I keep debating with myself about the risk /reward ---even if teams do not take the risk for their first rounder with him despite the fact he is as talented a BPA as any top 5 forward in this draft if not even the best BPA of them all --I cannot see him getting past rond 2 at the latest-especially if teams having multiple picks--speaking of which--COLORADO has 2 picks in round #1--IF they agree KUCHEROV could be a special BPA -maybe they use the #11 overall for him? Even if they have to wait 3 more years before he comes over..
Anyway he is the WILDCARD of this draft--could go round one even earlier than anyone expects---OR the NHL teams could just stay with safer picks who do not have to compete with the KHL for his services. Impatient teams will obviously pass on him if they are counting on infusing their first rounder right away (like with Skinner and CAR) or even in 2 years-- to know you won't see this guy for 3 seasons -it means a team at the top and with a ready stockpile from their farm for infusion MIGHT risk a first rounder on him and simply wait for him-but the teams who can't afford such a wait -willnot..
IRONICALLY such expectation for only LATE first round to probably mid -2nd at the latest -especially for teams with multiple 2nds-- have the effect of lowering theNHL team cap for Kucherov's entry deal when he signs it VS. if he went per his BPA value (as a top 5) where the cap hit is a lot more...THIS means KHL teams may be able to fend off the NHL even longer than the 3 years unless Kucherov goes early first round..So this "delay" in risking on him actually increases the risk he might not come over -if he becomes a huge KHL star maybe they throw gobs of $$$ at him to jeep him there.
THUS the RISK on him given the KHL reality is really a sort of double risk ..IF a team takes him very early in round one-they have a better chance of getting him over earlier...the longer you delay selecting him--the greater the KHL risk theykeep himlonger...so he is a fascinating WILDCARD for this draft..Will an NHL team surprise us (a la BLAKE WHEELER) and send the TSN draft panel and Bob McKenzieinto apoplexy on the surprise "going off the board" according to their rankings?
THE draft early surprise scenario also must way the "small market" risk factor--MAYBE KUCHEROV would not stay in Russia if NYR drafts him at #15 but would stay home if say WINNIPEG tookhimat #7 even thogh he'd get a bigger Entry contract earning potential (if he makes all his bonuses)?
So KUCHEROV given all these issues IS the MIMITD (Most Interesting Man In The Draft)--how this resolves willbe fascinating to watch.. WHO risks on himand how soon?
It's tough to say if he is more or less talented than Tarasenko - but he was in a similar situation last year. And Tarasenko only went 16th and had quiet a bit more hype around him. Not to even mention Kuznetsov at 26th...
Kucherov is not "clearly" more talented (if at all) than the 2 above were at this point last year, and he is much less hyped IMO. He is also smaller and hasn't been exposed to KHL nearly as much. Being in CSKA at this point also makes it more likely that he will stay longer in Russia.
As exciting and promising as he is, I still see him only in early to mid 2nd round. It's not that he has downsides, more like a pack of undesirables.
Kucherov is not "clearly" more talented (if at all) than the 2 above were at this point last year, and he is much less hyped IMO. He is also smaller and hasn't been exposed to KHL nearly as much. Being in CSKA at this point also makes it more likely that he will stay longer in Russia.
As exciting and promising as he is, I still see him only in early to mid 2nd round. It's not that he has downsides, more like a pack of undesirables.
KuliTank7
Registered User
Only the fact, that he has an release and shot like Mike Bossy should consider him as a top 10 pick.
I wouldn´t mind to draft him at #3
I wouldn´t mind to draft him at #3
Someone should take Kucherov at 2011 and Grigorenko at 2012. This is the strongest couple in the world, I think(my english is bad, I know)
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
Yeah your english can use some work but I think your point comes thru and most will understand it
I'd wager Kucherov wouldn't mind that one bit considering the logo on his hoodie...
Awesome. Thanks for posting that pic. Good to see his taste in his teams is right on par with his skill set. Thinking if anyone can convice Kucherov to come over, it's Detroit. With their strong history of success with Russian's, sparkling reputation as an organization, etc.
CerebralGenesis
Registered User
- Jul 23, 2009
- 24,429
- 2
I would certainly think a team will take a shot at him and try for a home run pick. question is where in the draft.
No offense to Evgeni Malkin, or any Russians, but Malkin still doesn't know English it seems.
This guy's stats seem comparable to Avtsin. Avtsin attended the draft when, well to my knowledge there wasn't much talk about him at all and was a 4th round pick.
Also to add to things Russian players have to face when coming over is discrimination (?) Not sure if right word as I'm kinda tired, but I swear that's partly why Avtsin plays so little in the AHL, well in the 2nd half. First half was injuries.
Anyways, Russian players are being trained with heart now too, so they'll be more picked.
Anybody have a wild guess when Nikita Kucherov will be picked?
I am guessing somebody that has multiple picks int he second round will take a chance, although I wouldn't be surprised if he sips into the bottom of the first
I am guessing somebody that has multiple picks int he second round will take a chance, although I wouldn't be surprised if he sips into the bottom of the first
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
That would be my guess. I dont see a team wanting to use there 1st rounder on him outside of maybe the Red Wings as the risk is too high given the uncertainty over if he would ever come over
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