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Voynov Suspended for 2019-2020 (upd: NHLPA to appeal)

Michel Beauchamp

Canadiens' fan since 1958
Mar 17, 2008
23,023
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Temporary Username said:
He lost four years of an NHL career, been suspended officially for a year, and lost any semblance of reputation he ever had. He will forever be remembered by millions for what is most likely the worst thing he's ever done.

If you call that getting "a pass", I question your ability to empathize. He's just a product of his genetics and his environment, like everyone else. Remember that, and maybe your empathy will return.
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Are you trying to say that all children of geniuses must be geniuses, or that all children of criminals must be criminals ?

At some point, your are responsible for the choices you make, the actions you take.
 
Smart Alek

Smart Alek

Registered User
Jul 13, 2002
1,014
665
beauchamp said:
Are you trying to say that all children of geniuses must be geniuses, or that all children of criminals must be criminals ?

At some point, your are responsible for the choices you make, the actions you take.
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No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At the risk of getting philosophical... here we go.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth. Everything we think and do is a product of our brain chemistry, which was designed by our DNA and influenced by the totality of our life experiences. If you think you're making 'choices', you're either aware of some heretofore unknown supernatural force, or deluded.

When you come to terms with this, you'll understand that it's silly (and deplorable) to seek vengeance against even the 'worst' people, like pederasts and serial killers. They're slaves to their brains just like the rest of us. We should, of course, endeavor to separate these sorts of people from the greater society for the well-being of the many. In the case of Voynov, I'd say his chances of recidivism are remote. He deserves the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and find happiness. Should he violate our social contract again, and show that he isn't capable of reforming his actions, that's an entirely different story.
 
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CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
48,235
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Temporary Username said:
Bizarre as it sounds, this is true. He and his wife come from a culture where spousal abuse is tolerated. They even went so far as to LEGALIZE forms of domestic violence last year.

That's not to say we should tolerate it as some form of cultural equivalency, but appreciate the nuance that this is different for the Voynovs than it would be for us. It's the height of self-righteousness to pretend we'd all have the same beliefs and opinions if we'd grown up in Russia.

He's learned a painful lesson that this sort of thing is not tolerated in North America, and he's probably a better person for it. Seeking to punish and ostracize him further may make you feel like a good person, but the opposite is actually true.
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If he shows remorse and admits what he did is unacceptable and wrong then sure maybe. But yes there are cultural differences in Russia and here, doesn't make it right.
 
Jyrki Lumme

Jyrki Lumme

Generational User
Mar 5, 2014
2,781
794
Temporary Username said:
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At the risk of getting philosophical... here we go.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth. Everything we think and do is a product of our brain chemistry, which was designed by our DNA and influenced by the totality of our life experiences. If you think you're making 'choices', you're either aware of some heretofore unknown supernatural force, or deluded.

When you come to terms with this, you'll understand that it's silly (and deplorable) to seek vengeance against even the 'worst' people, like pederasts and serial killers. They're slaves to their brains just like the rest of us. We should, of course, endeavor to separate these sorts of people from the greater society for the well-being of the many. In the case of Voynov, I'd say his chances of recidivism are remote. He deserves the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and find happiness. Should he violate our social contract again, and show that he isn't capable of reforming his actions, that's an entirely different story.
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Chill out there Dr. Philosophy 101
 
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Sol

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
23,233
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CycloneSweep said:
Any team that signs him is a team I actively cheer against.
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That's the thing, any team that wants to be competitive should take him, the worst That could happen is people like you just end up not liking the team. And the fans of said team will blow it off in less than a month.


A lot of people are merciful, so this whole holier than thou crap doesn't ever last.
 
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Tage2Tuch

Tage2Tuch

Because TheJackAttack is in Black
May 10, 2004
9,048
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volcom92886 said:
Not saying he should or shouldnt be re-instated. But how does the NHL get away with giving players such as Watson, Kane, Bertuzzi lesser punishments for similar if not worse offenses
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Bertuzzi got a very severe punishment andthe downfall wrecked his career as well, as the Canucks 2004 playoff run/hopes.

Say what you want about Moore but his parents sue Todd for something new every two years and you do know the avs jumping on a 260 pound with equipment power forward laying on top of Moore is what added if not caused his biggest injuries?

Obviously a gutless sucker punch but he served his time and it was handled perfectly.

Just because betuzzi used his body as apart of his dominant power forward style doesent mean the guy was a goon. He was actually one of the best players in the world for a couple of years. Forsberg, Sakic, iginla, naslund, Thornton he was right there with them from 02/04.
 

CycloneSweep

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
48,235
40,037
Sol said:
That's the thing, any team that wants to be competitive should take him, the worst That could happen is people like you just end up not liking the team. And the fans of said team will blow it off in less than a month.


A lot of people are merciful, so this whole holier than thou crap doesn't ever last.
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The worst that could happen? Or him being on a team causes dressing room issues. The wives of players talking about how they can't believe a piece of shit like that is on their team. The players not really including him in anything cause they want to keep their distance. A guy like Voynov would be a complete distraction. A lot of teams can't handle that.
 
hairylikebear

hairylikebear

///////////////
Apr 30, 2009
4,177
1,804
Houston
Temporary Username said:
Bizarre as it sounds, this is true. He and his wife come from a culture where spousal abuse is tolerated. They even went so far as to LEGALIZE forms of domestic violence last year.

That's not to say we should tolerate it as some form of cultural equivalency, but appreciate the nuance that this is different for the Voynovs than it would be for us. It's the height of self-righteousness to pretend we'd all have the same beliefs and opinions if we'd grown up in Russia.

He's learned a painful lesson that this sort of thing is not tolerated in North America, and he's probably a better person for it. Seeking to punish and ostracize him further may make you feel like a good person, but the opposite is actually true.
Click to expand...

Russian culture doesn't tolerate domestic violence.
 
8LX7psQ

8LX7psQ

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
1,221
566
Temporary Username said:
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At the risk of getting philosophical... here we go.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth. Everything we think and do is a product of our brain chemistry, which was designed by our DNA and influenced by the totality of our life experiences. If you think you're making 'choices', you're either aware of some heretofore unknown supernatural force, or deluded.

When you come to terms with this, you'll understand that it's silly (and deplorable) to seek vengeance against even the 'worst' people, like pederasts and serial killers. They're slaves to their brains just like the rest of us. We should, of course, endeavor to separate these sorts of people from the greater society for the well-being of the many. In the case of Voynov, I'd say his chances of recidivism are remote. He deserves the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and find happiness. Should he violate our social contract again, and show that he isn't capable of reforming his actions, that's an entirely different story.
Click to expand...

I don't have the choice but to want him out of the NHL for life unfortunately...
 
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Sol

Sol

Smile
Jun 30, 2017
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CycloneSweep said:
The worst that could happen? Or him being on a team causes dressing room issues. The wives of players talking about how they can't believe a piece of **** like that is on their team. The players not really including him in anything cause they want to keep their distance. A guy like Voynov would be a complete distraction. A lot of teams can't handle that.
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Sean Avery was arguably a direct cancer towards his team mates and had a decent career in the NHL. Let's not act like the NHL is filled with saints. I'm sure some wouldn't be happy and I'm also sure most probably won't give a shit in a month after.
 
SupremeNachos

SupremeNachos

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
3,130
792
Minnesota
Sol said:
Sean Avery was arguably a direct cancer towards his team mates and had a decent career in the NHL. Let's not act like the NHL is filled with saints. I'm sure some wouldn't be happy and I'm also sure most probably won't give a **** in a month after.
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Being a dick is completely different than beating your wife.
 
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SupremeNachos

SupremeNachos

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
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Minnesota
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Voynov is suspended but Bobby Hull still makes appearances at NHL events.
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And a large majority of MLB HOFers from the 20s-50s were outright racists. What Hull did was and is still horrible but it's not viewed the same as what Voynov did because of the times. I wouldn't be upset if they decided to ban Hull from future NHL events because of his past transgressions, but I wouldn't be surprised if they let him fade away as a relic of the old times. In todays culture you cannot do what Voynov did and expect people to look the other way anymore. And just like how MLB finally let in African American players the NHL can make a stand in the present to show this kind of behavior has dire consequences.
 
joez86

joez86

Registered User
Jan 20, 2006
1,103
74
Voynov was not found guilty of any crime. He did not feel he committed a crime, and neither did his wife, who did not press any charges against him, and did not want him arrested.

Therefore, what happened between them is nobody here's business. It was/is a private family matter that the police should have never been involved in once being told by the "victim" that she did not want any charges pressed.
 
BiolaRunner

BiolaRunner

Registered User
Jan 19, 2018
1,031
909
Sol said:
That's the thing, any team that wants to be competitive should take him, the worst That could happen is people like you just end up not liking the team. And the fans of said team will blow it off in less than a month.


A lot of people are merciful, so this whole holier than thou crap doesn't ever last.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of the Ducks signing Bertuzzi.

His signing coming a month after we lifted the Cup made it seem like not as big of a deal as it would've been a year prior. Him scoring a goal in his first game as a Duck also helped
 
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