Voynov Suspended for 2019-2020 (upd: NHLPA to appeal)

[CokenoPepsi]

I've been out of the loop, but does the league/Blackhawks still glorify Bobby Hull?

Yes.

Heil

 

[paragon]

Even if he wins the appeal no team will touch him...#metoo movement will eat that organization alive.

As if they #metoo people watch hockey. Too much testosterone for them.

Personally I think he should be allowed to play if am org wants to hire him. He served his time and it happened off the ice. I don't think NHL should be allowed to suspend people for stuff happening off the ice.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Hey nice false equivalence.

I can't believe this needs to be stated, but domestic violence isn't quite the same as posting something on Twitter 8 years ago.

Ah yes. False equivalencies and willful, forceful ignorance*. The two most trusted havens of bigots.

* "willful, forceful ignorance" refers specifically to the sniveling coward who thinks her remaining with him is proof he did nothing wrong.

 

[ThirdManIn]

No not for all intents or purposes. It's legally (and non) not an admission. It protects against civil. It means he doesn't have to say he did it and gives him the ability to deny it happened.

Which is exactly what my problem is. He has NOT admitted guilt. As far as I'm concerned he can't have repentance from fans if he doesn't admit it to. He's been making his cake and eating it to by still claiming it was all a misunderstanding.

So I again ask, where has he admitted it. He hasn't. Thanks for coming out.

It isn't the "exact opposite" of pleading guilt, though. The exact opposite of that would be to plea not guilty, a stance a person takes if they think they have a defense against the case the state has built. A "no contest" is admission that it is unlikely that the charges can be defended against successfully. It may not be the same thing as a guilty plea, but it is a plea that results in a guilty verdict, something the defendant should know and understand before entering the plea, so it doesn't take a lot of thought-experimentation to see how it is, for all intents and purposes, a guilty plea without the admission of guilt.

 

[bluesfan94]

No not for all intents or purposes. It's legally (and non) not an admission. It protects against civil. It means he doesn't have to say he did it and gives him the ability to deny it happened.

Which is exactly what my problem is. He has NOT admitted guilt. As far as I'm concerned he can't have repentance from fans if he doesn't admit it to. He's been making his cake and eating it to by still claiming it was all a misunderstanding.

So I again ask, where has he admitted it. He hasn't. Thanks for coming out.

Alright.

 

[Dirty Dan]

The #metoo movement isn’t gonna care about some hockey player.

He's from Russia, they can't do anything to him

NFL players do alot worse than this, if this happened to a leafs top player I would be pissed. He's not in jail so why punish the team

 

[Dirty Dan]

You're right, I'm taking the bold stance of not wanting some spousal absuser on my team.

No need to be a hero, she is still with Voynov by choice rather than a virtuous man like you or me

 

[RadekBong]

You're so virtuous

So you think beating the snot out of your wife is "slightly offensive"? You seem super well-adjusted.

 

[Dirty Dan]

So you think beating the snot out of your wife is "slightly offensive"? You seem super well-adjusted.

I think in Russia they don't see it as that bad , it could be cultural thing rather than some innate response within you.

He still deserves a second chance, and if guys on the ice have a problem they can drop the gloves, thats how it should be

 

[Chadstudsky]

Ah yes. False equivalencies and willful, forceful ignorance*. The two most trusted havens of bigots.

* "willful, forceful ignorance" refers specifically to the sniveling coward who thinks her remaining with him is proof he did nothing wrong.

Username checks out

 

[Chadstudsky]

So you think beating the snot out of your wife is "slightly offensive"? You seem super well-adjusted.

Yep. That's what I said

 

[dkhockey]

I think it more often comes down to whether the crime was violent or not. Smoking pot and beating your wife aren't anywhere near as bad in my eyes, yet often skin color and wealth make it so that smoking pot is punished much much more harshly. Swing and a miss.

is that why NFL players go free when they beat up their wives and girlfriends?

 

[bluesfan94]

is that why NFL players go free when they beat up their wives and girlfriends?

Yeah, they tend to be wealthy.

 

[bluesfan94]

No need to be a hero, she is still with Voynov by choice rather than a virtuous man like you or me

Yeah, and everyone knows women NEVER stay with their abusers. Give your head a shake man

 

[Sojourn]

Would he have been allowed to play in the NHL from 14/15 - 18/19? No. Don’t be obtuse.

It’s the equivalent of time served. He was leaving the country or being deported either way. Neither of those options would have allowed for his play in the NHL.

And that’s why I think this extra suspension is just a show of PR by the league. I get it. I don’t necessarily oppose it morally. But it is an excessive suspension when considering he has been effectively prevented from playing in the NHL for almost five years now.

Interesting argument. You provide no actual evidence, and then accuse me of being obtuse.

We don’t know what would have happened, because he left the country. If he had stayed here and finished his probation, and attempted to return, who knows what would have happened. Unlike you, I’m not going to pretend I do. This isn’t time served, because he never gave the NHL the opportunity to hand out a punishment. He simply left, and then went to play in the KHL.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Username checks out

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize two people can't share similar thoughts in a thread. I didn't mean to make anyone feel unduly attacked.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Interesting argument. You provide no actual evidence, and then accuse me of being obtuse.

We don’t know what would have happened, because he left the country. If he had stayed here and finished his probation, and attempted to return, who knows what would have happened. Unlike you, I’m not going to pretend I do. This isn’t time served, because he never gave the NHL the opportunity to hand out a punishment. He simply left, and then went to play in the KHL.

And what actual evidence do you have to support this NHL suspension? None whatsoever. You’re simply agreeing with the league’s arbitrary ruling because you want to.

You can’t simply hand wave away the concept of time served, and then beg me for some kind of evidence based objectivity. If the NHL expects to be taken seriously as an investigative, punitive body, time served is a relevant consideration with precedent in punitive criminal law.

A player voluntarily self deported, forfeiting millions of dollars of USD. He willingly stayed away from earning a significant living - more than he would have earned anywhere else - for five years. A neutral arbitrator will absolutely take this into account, which is precisely why the PA is appealing the suspension.

I never want to see Voynov in a Kings sweater again. I have no empathy for his situation whatsoever. But there are bigger concerns at play here, including the tyranny of private enterprise. The NHL holds an undisputed monopoly on the game of hockey in the biggest economic market in the world. If you’re completely fine with them making up suspension rules on the spot, you need to also be okay with the NFL banning its players from kneeling.

Or, you can take the reasonable liberal approach of not being okay with any employment cartel holding that much power over its workers.

 

[Classic Devil]

And what actual evidence do you have to support this NHL suspension? None whatsoever. You’re simply agreeing with the league’s arbitrary ruling because you want to.

You can’t simply hand wave away the concept of time served, and then beg me for some kind of evidence based objectivity. If the NHL expects to be taken seriously as an investigative, punitive body, time served is a relevant consideration with precedent in punitive criminal law.

A player voluntarily self deported, forfeiting millions of dollars of USD. He willingly stayed away from earning a significant living - more than he would have earned anywhere else - for five years. A neutral arbitrator will absolutely take this into account, which is precisely why the PA is appealing the suspension.

I never want to see Voynov in a Kings sweater again. I have no empathy for his situation whatsoever. But there are bigger concerns at play here, including the tyranny of private enterprise. The NHL holds an undisputed monopoly on the game of hockey in the biggest economic market in the world. If you’re completely fine with them making up suspension rules on the spot, you need to also be okay with the NFL banning its players from kneeling.

Or, you can take the reasonable liberal approach of not being okay with any employment cartel holding that much power over its workers.

He chose to self-deport so he wouldn't be deported involuntarily. He doesn't deserve credit for anything.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

He chose to self-deport so he wouldn't be deported involuntarily. He doesn't deserve credit for anything.

Foreign nationals are often given the option to self deport if facing criminal conviction. What’s your point? Either way, he was forced to leave the country. Self-deportation vs involuntary deportation is utterly irrelevant when refusing the former would result in the latter.

 

[Sojourn]

And what actual evidence do you have to support this NHL suspension? None whatsoever. You’re simply agreeing with the league’s arbitrary ruling because you want to.

You can’t simply hand wave away the concept of time served, and then beg me for some kind of evidence based objectivity. If the NHL expects to be taken seriously as an investigative, punitive body, time served is a relevant consideration with precedent in punitive criminal law.

A player voluntarily self deported, forfeiting millions of dollars of USD. He willingly stayed away from earning a significant living - more than he would have earned anywhere else - for five years. A neutral arbitrator will absolutely take this into account, which is precisely why the PA is appealing the suspension.

I never want to see Voynov in a Kings sweater again. I have no empathy for his situation whatsoever. But there are bigger concerns at play here, including the tyranny of private enterprise. The NHL holds an undisputed monopoly on the game of hockey in the biggest economic market in the world. If you’re completely fine with them making up suspension rules on the spot, you need to also be okay with the NFL banning its players from kneeling.

Or, you can take the reasonable liberal approach of not being okay with any employment cartel holding that much power over its workers.

I haven't said anything about the NHL's suspension, except to point out that it isn't a 4-year suspension. With all due respect, but you might want to argue what I have said, and not what others in this thread have said.

I'm also not hand-waving the concept of time served. I'm stating that, in leaving the country to avoid deportation, he never gave the NHL the opportunity to punish him. Furthermore, your claim that he willingly stayed away to from earning a significant living rings false. He was earning millions of dollars in the KHL. Certainly, you can argue there was the opportunity to earn more, but he was earning a very significant living in the KHL. When a player is suspended by the NHL, they lose salary, and they aren't permitted to play during that time. In essence, Voynov avoided that suspension. He played in the KHL, earned a significant living, and you want to claim that's time served. Between the two of us, I think I have a better argument of claiming you're hand-waving the time served.

As for the NHLPA appealing, that's their responsibility, regardless of what their personal feelings are.

 

[Sojourn]

He chose to self-deport so he wouldn't be deported involuntarily. He doesn't deserve credit for anything.

Exactly this, and I don't think we can call playing in the KHL for three years to as time served during that span. That was my original objection to his post. He was playing hockey, and making significant amounts of money in his home country.

The NHL's decision to suspend him for next season is a different argument entirely, but let's say the suspension stands and he can't play next season. Do you think the NHL would see the suspension as being served if he returned to the KHL during that time? I don't. I think they would view that as an attempt to circumvent their decision.

 

[bluesfan94]

Foreign nationals are often given the option to self deport if facing criminal conviction. What’s your point? Either way, he was forced to leave the country. Self-deportation vs involuntary deportation is utterly irrelevant when refusing the former would result in the latter.

He willingly stayed away? No, he wasn't allowed into the country. Very different. And it means he wasn't able to sign an NHL contract (or, if he was, no team would sign him; who wants a player that, at most, can play 50ish games (a Canadian team))? And if he's not in the NHL, which he wasn't, then the NHL can't suspend him

 

[Mallard]

As if they #metoo people watch hockey. Too much testosterone for them.

Personally I think he should be allowed to play if am org wants to hire him. He served his time and it happened off the ice. I don't think NHL should be allowed to suspend people for stuff happening off the ice.

Ah yes - rape, pedophilia, murder, etc... As long as they serve their sentence and it didn't happen while they were on the ice they should be able to play!

 

[Zippgunn]

As for Bertuzzi, the worst of the three. While what he did was awful. It wasn't intentional. He wanted to goad Moore into a fight not break his neck. Furthermore, he faced the consequences for his actions both publicly and financially; being suspended for a year.

What a ridiculous re-write of history. If you remember he was CONVICTED of a PREMEDITATED CRIMINAL ASSAULT CAUSING BODILY HARM (i.e. instantly ending a player's career) and he missed 17 whole games. But then again he's not Russian...

 

[Hanji]

If his name was Mike Jones nobody would care. Just like the NFL.
NFL Arrest-Database - NFL Football - USA TODAY

-Or like how the king of the wife beaters, Bobby Hull, can still walk into any stadium an command a standing ovation.
-Or if his name was Craig MacTavish, who conveniently only served 1 year for vehicular manslaughter, and was welcomed back with open arms and is current the VP for the Oilers.
-Or like how Dany Heatley, conveniently avoided jail time despite being guilty of four charges of vehicular homicide, and was welcomed back with open arms by the NHL.

Too bad for Voynov he isn't in the NHL's good ole boy club.