Voynov Suspended for 2019-2020 (upd: NHLPA to appeal)

[SupremeNachos]

Why not? This was a case that was clouded by a totally inept investigation where the victim was questioned in a language she didn't even understand fully. Bertuzzi was convicted of criminal assault causing bodily harm and missed a whopping 17 games and returned to the NHL fully exonerated and made another 10-15 million dollars to boot. Also I find it funny that nobody mentions Bob Probert and his underwear full of cocaine. This is clearly a politically/racially motivated punishment and the NHLPA should be challenging it for sure. Bobby Hull and Patrick Roy also say Hi...

If you read my earlier post I already gave my answer on guys like Hull. Just because we let someone slide 15yrs ago doesn't mean we should continue that line of thinking. If you got charged with assaulting a woman would your employer welcome you back?

 

[Vagrant]

if the side 0f the discussion you find yourself on advocates for less strenuous penalties for a professional athlete beating a woman pleading for her life, you might want to reconsider your side of the discussion.

 

[BamBam1031]

Again, there are specific laws with regards to whether or not a criminal record can be considered when hiring. Generally speaking, if the crime itself relates directly to the line of work, then it's kosher. If it doesn't, then it becomes questionable. This is not to say the NHL itself cannot institute policies and guidelines with respect to behavior and discipline, but to permanently ban someone (meaning to forever forbid someone from earning a living) would venture into a precarious area where the NHL may be violating Slava Voynov's civil rights.

Especially considering the fact that he has no criminal record at all.

We are a nation of laws, fortunately, and even if the hordes of SJWs feigning moral superiority number in the majority (and they certainly do not), the laws still stand.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

If you read my earlier post I already gave my answer on guys like Hull. Just because we let someone slide 15yrs ago doesn't mean we should continue that line of thinking. If you got charged with assaulting a woman would your employer welcome you back?

If you want a more contemporary narrative, you should have a chat with the Nashville Predators too.

The NHL's lack of a denoted DV policy paints them into inconsistent and questionable corners.

People go out of their way to find excuses for and support for Austin Watson, but do the polar opposite for Voynov.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At the risk of getting philosophical... here we go.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth. Everything we think and do is a product of our brain chemistry, which was designed by our DNA and influenced by the totality of our life experiences. If you think you're making 'choices', you're either aware of some heretofore unknown supernatural force, or deluded.

When you come to terms with this, you'll understand that it's silly (and deplorable) to seek vengeance against even the 'worst' people, like pederasts and serial killers. They're slaves to their brains just like the rest of us. We should, of course, endeavor to separate these sorts of people from the greater society for the well-being of the many. In the case of Voynov, I'd say his chances of recidivism are remote. He deserves the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and find happiness. Should he violate our social contract again, and show that he isn't capable of reforming his actions, that's an entirely different story.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth ?

What a joke.

Of course we're influenced by our DNA, upbringing and life experiences, but we are responsible for each and every choice we make.

My purpose here is not to convince you (I don't feel like cleaning the Augean stables) but simply not to let such drivel go unchallenged.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

For your sake, I hope you never encounter a drum with a radioactive symbol on it.

+

 

[3074326]

Free will is a myth? lol

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Bertuzzi was convicted of criminal assault causing bodily harm and missed a whopping 17 games

20 games plus the fact that the suspension was extended by the IIHF to their own jurisdiction. Bertuzzi was thus unable to play overseas during the 2005-06 lock-out.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Why not? This was a case that was clouded by a totally inept investigation where the victim was questioned in a language she didn't even understand fully. Bertuzzi was convicted of criminal assault causing bodily harm and missed a whopping 17 games and returned to the NHL fully exonerated and made another 10-15 million dollars to boot. Also I find it funny that nobody mentions Bob Probert and his underwear full of cocaine. This is clearly a politically/racially motivated punishment and the NHLPA should be challenging it for sure. Bobby Hull and Patrick Roy also say Hi...

It's not politically motivated. Hockey is entertainment. The optics of having a convicted abuser like Voynov playing in the league is terrible for the league's image.

Probert's cocaine incident was 30 years ago and he passed away. Hull's was in the 80s as well. Don't get me wrong I think the league should completely distance themselves from Hull but the reality is a lot of people don't know that about his past. And I hate Roy but didn't he just tear a door off his its hinges?

 

[greasysnapper]

If you want a more contemporary narrative, you should have a chat with the Nashville Predators too.

The NHL's lack of a denoted DV policy paints them into inconsistent and questionable corners.

People go out of their way to find excuses for and support for Austin Watson, but do the polar opposite for Voynov.

Good point. I think Watson's wrong doing was less atrocious which is probably the reason for most of that weak support, but the fact remains both parties (Watson and Voynov) have dealt with their issues in the court of law and in the public square and both deserve a second chance.

 

[Sol]

Quite a few people are saying that he deserves a second chance in his life, but that doesn't mean it has to be in the NHL.

I don't see how one doesn't correlate with the other.

 

[Hanji]

It's not politically motivated. Hockey is entertainment. The optics of having a convicted abuser like Voynov playing in the league is terrible for the league's image.

Probert's cocaine incident was 30 years ago and he passed away. Hull's was in the 80s as well. Don't get me wrong I think the league should completely distance themselves from Hull but the reality is a lot of people don't know that about his past. And I hate Roy but didn't he just tear a door off his its hinges?

Bad for the league's image? Oh c'mon, sport fans don't care about the indiscretions of athletes. Let me introduce you to the NFL's arrest database; a league that earns $8 billion in revenue.
NFL Arrest-Database - NFL Football - USA TODAY

As it pertains to optics, sport leagues (NHL included) are far more worried about things like their employees 'taking a knee' during the anthem.

 

[Cor]

Strategy for Voynov is simple.

Sign a one year deal with the smallest market you can, ideally a team who won’t make the playoffs.

The initial backlash of your signing will be quieter but will still be there.

Sit for the 41 games and then return to NHL ice. Another brief backlash will happen.

Play 41 games, ideally well, the whispers will continue

After a long spring off and everyone enraged about something else, sign a deal with a Contender.

 

[SupremeNachos]

I don't see how one doesn't correlate with the other.

So you think if someone goes to jail for murder when they get out 40yrs later they should get their same job back?

 

[Prairie Habs]

So you think if someone goes to jail for murder when they get out 40yrs later they should get their same job back?

And that's not even taking into account that he avoided deportation by moving back to Russia where he continued making millions of dollars playing hockey. The people crying about the NHL taking away his livelihood need to get over themselves.

 

[mouser]

So you think if someone goes to jail for murder when they get out 40yrs later they should get their same job back?

Not sure what this strawman question is supposed to mean?

If someone goes to jail for 40 years and serves their punishment should they be denied the opportunity to apply for their previous job?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. At the risk of getting philosophical... here we go.

IGNORE THE FOLLOWING IF YOU JUST WANT TO READ ABOUT VOYNOV

Free will is a myth. Everything we think and do is a product of our brain chemistry, which was designed by our DNA and influenced by the totality of our life experiences. If you think you're making 'choices', you're either aware of some heretofore unknown supernatural force, or deluded.

When you come to terms with this, you'll understand that it's silly (and deplorable) to seek vengeance against even the 'worst' people, like pederasts and serial killers. They're slaves to their brains just like the rest of us. We should, of course, endeavor to separate these sorts of people from the greater society for the well-being of the many. In the case of Voynov, I'd say his chances of recidivism are remote. He deserves the opportunity to learn from his mistakes and find happiness. Should he violate our social contract again, and show that he isn't capable of reforming his actions, that's an entirely different story.

Oooookay there chief.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not sure what this strawman question is supposed to mean?

If someone goes to jail for 40 years and serves their punishment should they be denied the opportunity to apply for their previous job?

I mean Craig MacTavish finally just left the league for the KHL... So it isn't like there is a great precedence anyway here for the league in his original question... Just saying.

 

[YearsintheWilderness]

MacTavish is probably the best example of a second chance and a person who accepted responsibility and dealt with the fallout the best way he could. You could, of course, argue about intent. But, dead is dead.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Not sure what this strawman question is supposed to mean?

If someone goes to jail for 40 years and serves their punishment should they be denied the opportunity to apply for their previous job?

Seems like an inapt way of framing it. In this context, I think it would be more appropriate to view the individual NHL teams as franchisees of the NHL. The NHL has a brand/reputation to upkeep and protect. If the NHL feels it's bad policy to allow any of its teams to sign a convicted domestic abuser, too bad, application denied. Voynov got prescreened out.

 

[mouser]

Seems like an inapt way of framing it. In this context, I think it would be more appropriate to view the individual NHL teams as franchisees of the NHL. The NHL has a brand/reputation to upkeep and protect. If the NHL feels it's bad policy to allow any of its teams to sign a convicted domestic abuser, too bad, application denied. Voynov got prescreened out.

There’s a union and a Collective Bargaining Agrement involved here as well. The NHL owners can’t simply impose a policy.

Plus the NHL has to be careful about blanket employment policies outside of the CBA when the 31 teams are still legally independent businesses. Risk of running afoul of anti-trust laws.

 

[tsujimoto74]

There’s a union and a Collective Bargaining Agrement involved here as well. The NHL owners can’t simply impose a policy.

Plus the NHL has to be careful about blanket employment policies outside of the CBA when the 31 teams are still legally independent businesses. Risk of running afoul of anti-trust laws.

I don't know the CBA well enough to comment on whether the NHL's actions create any potential issues there. I imagine that if the league were acting completely outside the scope of its authority, the PA would be raising a much bigger stink than it is, though.

As a business, the NHL is a 501(c)(6)) whose job is to promote the interests of its members, i.e., the team owners. It is allowed to do that job, and there are a number of carve-outs in US antitrust law to accommodate professional sports leagues. More than that, I'm not sure how antitrust law is implicated in personnel decisions---the purpose of antitrust is to make the market more fair for consumers. The body of law that deals with employment is a whole different animal, and (at the federal level in the US), it's perfectly legal to consider an applicant's criminal history.

 

[SupremeNachos]

Not sure what this strawman question is supposed to mean?

If someone goes to jail for 40 years and serves their punishment should they be denied the opportunity to apply for their previous job?

Of course not, but that doesn't guarantee their former employer will even think about rehiring that person. Like I said, I'm not against giving him a second chance at hockey, but that doesn't have to be in the NHL. Lots of other pro leagues in the world he can try and play in.

 

[mouser]

Of course not, but that doesn't guarantee their former employer will even think about rehiring that person. Like I said, I'm not against giving him a second chance at hockey, but that doesn't have to be in the NHL. Lots of other pro leagues in the world he can try and play in.

The NHL is 31 different employers.

 

[mouser]

I don't know the CBA well enough to comment on whether the NHL's actions create any potential issues there. I imagine that if the league were acting completely outside the scope of its authority, the PA would be raising a much bigger stink than it is, though.

As a business, the NHL is a 501(c)(6)) whose job is to promote the interests of its members, i.e., the team owners. It is allowed to do that job, and there are a number of carve-outs in US antitrust law to accommodate professional sports leagues. More than that, I'm not sure how antitrust law is implicated in personnel decisions---the purpose of antitrust is to make the market more fair for consumers. The body of law that deals with employment is a whole different animal, and (at the federal level in the US), it's perfectly legal to consider an applicant's criminal history.

I was responding to an argument by a poster that Voynov should be permanently banned from the NHL. Something the league has not done.