Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part VIII

[HatTrick Swayze]

Wow that was as brutal as a PP as you will see. They struggle to even get the puck back to their point man.

 

[MrAlmost]

I wonder if we as mere mortals would be able to see the difference between playing NHL 4th liners and superstars since the 4th liners seem like superstars already. The 4th liners are a lot further from us than superstars are from 4th liners in the NHL.

I wonder from time to time if the bottom line guys would actually seem like the better players to us because of the way they have to play to make it to the NHL, whereas a superstar might not play like that in the casual adult league. If you get what I mean.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Im really starting to dislike Sedlak.

GoAwaySedlak

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I wonder from time to time if the bottom line guys would actually seem like the better players to us because of the way they have to play to make it to the NHL, whereas a superstar might not play like that in the casual adult league. If you get what I mean.

You mean they wouldn't play as hard?

 

[bobbop]

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sakic gets a pass on a lot of things because he is well-liked in the NHL and beloved in Colorado. But this team has downright sucked outside the first round and has really built it's system on a number of top 10 or top 12 picks.

Sakic has also made a couple of smoking good trades.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sakic gets a pass on a lot of things because he is well-liked in the NHL and beloved in Colorado. But this team has downright sucked outside the first round and has really built it's system on a number of top 10 or top 12 picks.

He’s the new Stevie y

 

[Edge]

He’s the new Stevie y

I will say that I've met Sakic many times in my career and he really is a good guy.

I do think it's interesting to see how he was able to re-shape his legacy in Colorado. Many people forget that prior to the Nords moving, Sakic's leadership was often called into question. In fact, it reached the point where Wendall Clark was brought in to provide the leadership management did not feel they were getting from Sakic.

There's this narrative that Yzerman and Sakic were these revered leaders. But lost to time were the contemporary opinions that both were lacking the stuff to be "winners" and were shockingly close to be being shipped elsewhere.

Sakic was on the cusp of 27 during the 1996 campaign when his fortunes changes. Yzerman was 32 a year later when he began to shift his narrative. Point being, it took a little while.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I will say that I've met Sakic many times in my career and he really is a good guy.

I do think it's interesting to see how he was able to re-shape his legacy in Colorado. Many people forget that prior to the Nords moving, Sakic's leadership was often called into question. In fact, it reached the point where Wendall Clark was brought in to provide the leadership management did not feel they were getting from Sakic.

There's this narrative that Yzerman and Sakic were these revered leaders. But lost to time were the contemporary opinions that both were lacking the stuff to be "winners" and were shockingly close to be being shipped elsewhere.

Sakic was on the cusp of 27 during the 1996 campaign when his fortunes changes. Yzerman was 32 a year later when he began to shift his narrative. Point being, it took a little while.

I feel like people just need to blame someone when teams don't go as far as expected but they don't take into account how much luck there is in that.

 

[Edge]

I feel like people just need to blame someone when teams don't go as far as expected but they don't take into account how much luck there is in that.

This is true.

And on the flip side, when everything comes together we tend to elevate people to levels that may not be entirely accurate as well.

It's interest for me to have worked in this sport and followed closely for so long. One of the things you see is how legacy memories can sometimes vary from contemporary memories.

I'll use Zubov as a popular example. There's this memory that he was a beloved player and that everyone was against moving him. But that's not what the contemporary view was at the time of his departure. It really wasn't.

I'd dare say if the internet had become more popular/accessible just a few years sooner, along with HockeysFuture and its message boards, Zubov would've been one of those players this board ROASTED on a regular basis.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is true.

And on the flip side, when everything comes together we tend to elevate people to levels that may not be entirely accurate as well.

It's interest for me to have worked in this sport and followed closely for so long. One of the things you see is how legacy memories can sometimes vary from contemporary memories.

I'll use Zubov as a popular example. There's this memory that he was a beloved player and that everyone was against moving him. But that's not what the contemporary view was at the time of his departure. It really wasn't.

I'd dare say if the internet had become more popular/accessible just a few years sooner, along with HockeysFuture and its message boards, Zubov would've been one of those players this board ROASTED on a regular basis.

Do you think this would be a similar situation if TDA is traded?

 

[Ghost of jas]

I will say that I've met Sakic many times in my career and he really is a good guy.

I do think it's interesting to see how he was able to re-shape his legacy in Colorado. Many people forget that prior to the Nords moving, Sakic's leadership was often called into question. In fact, it reached the point where Wendall Clark was brought in to provide the leadership management did not feel they were getting from Sakic.

There's this narrative that Yzerman and Sakic were these revered leaders. But lost to time were the contemporary opinions that both were lacking the stuff to be "winners" and were shockingly close to be being shipped elsewhere.

Sakic was on the cusp of 27 during the 1996 campaign when his fortunes changes. Yzerman was 32 a year later when he began to shift his narrative. Point being, it took a little while.

That Red Wings group was considered chokers until they won in 1997, (after acquiring Shanahan.). They lost to the Sharks in the 1st round in 1994, when they were heavy favorites to go to the Cup, they were swept by the Devils in 1995 when they were favorites, and then lost to the Avs in 1996.

 

[Edge]

Do you think this would be a similar situation if TDA is traded?

Possible, though I think ADA might have the cover of being seen as a business move for most fans, rather than a guy we kinda/sorta wanted to see go.

These boards only missed those 94-96 trades by one to three years. I've always wondered how the reaction would've been on here.

 

[bl02]

Why Traktor why must you be so offensively challenged

 

[JCProdigy]

These boards only missed those 94-96 trades by one to three years. I've always wondered how the reaction would've been on here.

I'm sure it would have been a calm, logical discussion on the intricacies of the value gained vs value lost.

 

[Levitate]

Yzerman was 32 a year later when he began to shift his narrative. Point being, it took a little while.

I'll admit to not paying a ton of attention to this stuff back in the day but I feel like Yzerman's "respectability" came when people made up the narrative that he "sacrificed offensive play to become a strong two way player and there for was taking one for the team" when really that just coincided with the time in a players career when their offensive stats normally start taking a dive.

 

[Edge]

I'll admit to not paying a ton of attention to this stuff back in the day but I feel like Yzerman's "respectability" came when people made up the narrative that he "sacrificed offensive play to become a strong two way player and there for was taking one for the team" when really that just coincided with the time in a players career when their offensive stats normally start taking a dive.

And happened to coincide with an era where putting up 50 goals and 130 points was not going to happen for anyone not named Lemieux or Jagr.

 

[egelband]

How are we gonna pay all these guys. We need to start trading some before their value takes a hit

I know you’re joking, but I would say your point highlights that the Rangers cannot be grafting on any more big contracts for the foreseeable. The salary structure is pretty much set, broadly.

 

[Levitate]

I know you’re joking, but I would say your point highlights that the Rangers cannot be grafting on any more big contracts for the foreseeable. The salary structure is pretty much set, broadly.

To be honest I think they pretty much have to re-sign Zibanejad even if that contract is gonna hurt at the end of it because they just don't have a replacement for him and likely won't have one for awhile

But other than that yeah that's maybe one big reason why you don't give DeAngelo a big long contract and try to squeeze out some more years with Fox with a bridge contract, bring in Lundkvist, etc.

 

[egelband]

To be honest I think they pretty much have to re-sign Zibanejad even if that contract is gonna hurt at the end of it because they just don't have a replacement for him and likely won't have one for awhile

But other than that yeah that's maybe one big reason why you don't give DeAngelo a big long contract and try to squeeze out some more years with Fox with a bridge contract, bring in Lundkvist, etc.

I agree. I do think extending Mika and signing ADA - for example - long term - should be do-able. I just mean that - more or less - the core is set bar some musical chairs.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

To be honest I think they pretty much have to re-sign Zibanejad even if that contract is gonna hurt at the end of it because they just don't have a replacement for him and likely won't have one for awhile

But other than that yeah that's maybe one big reason why you don't give DeAngelo a big long contract and try to squeeze out some more years with Fox with a bridge contract, bring in Lundkvist, etc.

Unless they decide to go after Barkov if/when he fits FA and let Zibanejad go.

 

[egelband]

Unless they decide to go after Barkov if/when he fits FA and let Zibanejad go.

I think they could re-arrange the deck chairs, so to speak. But unless injuries are a concern with Mika in a couple years, I would hope they bring him back. He has really won me over. I think he’s a guy a team can win a title with. (Nothing against Barkov).

 

[egelband]

Sakic has also made a couple of smoking good trades.

Didn’t those trades kind of fall into his lap? I mean, aside from being very patient. My impression is that he’s a quiet, patient guy but most fans interpret that as wisdom and intelligence. When maybe it’s not quite so. I dunno. Just my impression.

 

[Edge]

To be honest I think they pretty much have to re-sign Zibanejad even if that contract is gonna hurt at the end of it because they just don't have a replacement for him and likely won't have one for awhile

But other than that yeah that's maybe one big reason why you don't give DeAngelo a big long contract and try to squeeze out some more years with Fox with a bridge contract, bring in Lundkvist, etc.

I think Mika's fate will be tied to how he does next season and whether he can stay healthy.

If there's another major injury, there's probably a very real possibility the Rangers see if they can make a similar trade to the one that landed him in the first place.

That is not going to be answer this board wants to here, but it's going to be on the table if certain things happen.

Having said that, I believe the Rangers sincerely hope it would not come to that.

 

[egelband]

I think Mika's fate will be tied to how he does next season and whether he can stay healthy.

If there's another major injury, there's probably a very real possibility the Rangers see if they can make a similar trade to the one that landed him in the first place.

That is not going to be answer this board wants to here, but it's going to be on the table if certain things happen.

Having said that, I believe the Rangers sincerely hope it would not come to that.

Yeah. That’s what I was imagining. If he comes through this upcoming season strong, I think it’s reasonable to think he has moved past the serious injury worries. But if he misses time again with one or two of those ‘neck’ injuries, maybe the Rangers have to make a hard decision. I’m hoping for the former scenario, of course

 

[bobbop]

Didn’t those trades kind of fall into his lap? I mean, aside from being very patient. My impression is that he’s a quiet, patient guy but most fans interpret that as wisdom and intelligence. When maybe it’s not quite so. I dunno. Just my impression.

Fall into his lap? I don't think so. He got a ton of assets for Duchesne including Girard and pick he used on Byram, largely by being patient, but he also traded for Grubauer and Graves. That's first rate GM work.