Proposal: Viability in Trading Mantha to New Jersey or Buffalo for their 1st Rounder?

[Malaka]

I think Mantha is a fantastic player, hovering around the top 10 at his position.

Absolutely not. Come on bud

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I wouldn't trade our best player unless a top 3 pick this year is coming back. He's 25 years old, not 32. He's still gonna be around when Detroit is good again. I don't understand the obsession of trading a 6'5 almost ppg winger.

First of all he is not " our best player". And the reason to trade him is he is always hurt never topped 50 points and due for a major pay raise. That is why.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Absolutely not. Come on bud

Mantha when healthy the last two seasons has been an absolute force.

Now he has to actually stay healthy for a season, that is really the only question mark. We will see, but if he does he will be in that conversation, I get that you don't really see enough of him to understand. He honestly should be the reigning World Championship MVP over Mark Stone.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That's always hurt never topped 50 points and due for a major pay raise. That is why.

These two things are mutually exclusive. What makes Mantha "due for a major pay raise" if he's always hurt and never topped 50 points?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

First of all he is not " our best player". And the reason to trade him is he is always hurt never topped 50 points and due for a major pay raise. That is why.

He is our most talented player, I think Larkin is more important but that is it and I don't think anybody is under the illusion that he is actually more talented than Mantha.

Those two do actually have positive underlying numbers and are quality first line players though. I think Bertuzzi is close and certainly a top 6 guy, but Mantha and Larkin are our only real first line caliber players and they do it with the other team being allowed to key on them which isn't easy.

 

[Malaka]

Mantha is a 70 point guy on the right team, maybe around a ppg if the stars align. Top 30 is stretch. Don’t be a homer

 

[Ezekial]

Mantha is a 70 point guy on the right team, maybe around a ppg if the stars align. Top 30 is stretch. Don’t be a homer

I mean, he had .88 ppg on a historically terrible team this season. Is that the right team, cuz that's 72 points in 82 games.

 

[Malaka]

I mean, he had .88 ppg on a historically terrible team this season. Is that the right team, cuz that's 72 points in 82 games.

Just as there’s a point of consideration for him being on a team where he has the correct linemates around him there’s a consideration for him being relied on more for offense and being the guy. I don’t think he’s a superstar but he can drive play and 70 points is around where I would expect him to contribute through his career... Larkin isn’t a bum either

 

[lidstromiscool]

First of all he is not " our best player". And the reason to trade him is he is always hurt never topped 50 points and due for a major pay raise. That is why.

He's the best scorer on Detroit and one of only a couple threats to actually score on any given night. Literally the only thing holding him back is his health, he's scored at a 50+ point pace ever since he's been called up. It's not like he has debilitating back or knee issues, he has random unlucky injuries. Maybe you could even get him under contract a little cheaper cause of the injuries. I would much rather gamble with him staying healthy rather than trying to pick a player better than him. Trading him for the 8th overall pick would be such a stupid gamble and would likely piss off the few remaining good players on the team.

 

[KJoe88]

What in the actual **** is going in with these sentiments and thoughts about trading Mantha, Larkin, Bertuzzi, etc.

They’re all 25 and younger. Like, I’m genuinely lost. There is still plenty of hockey left before we think about trading the entire current core because of shitty draft luck...

We’re drafting 4th OA not a bubble team who should burn down everything.

 

[KJoe88]

Mantha is a 70 point guy on the right team, maybe around a ppg if the stars align. Top 30 is stretch. Don’t be a homer

So in turn we should trade a star player who is at times an unstoppable force with good skating ability and a large reach - a 70P player who can get 30+ goals? At the same time relatively consistent last couple of seasons.

I forgot they grow on trees.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He is our most talented player, I think Larkin is more important but that is it and I don't think anybody is under the illusion that he is actually more talented than Mantha.

Those two do actually have positive underlying numbers and are quality first line players though. I think Bertuzzi is close and certainly a top 6 guy, but Mantha and Larkin are our only real first line caliber players and they do it with the other team being allowed to key on them which isn't easy.

So his repeat injuries don't concern you ahead of a big paycheck looming? I think a top ten pick is fair and for where we are fits more towards the rebuild.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So his repeat injuries don't concern you ahead of a big paycheck looming? I think a top ten pick is fair and for where we are fits more towards the rebuild.

They concern me, trading him for magic beans (or just a bean in one pick) concerns me as well.

I want to know what is coming back and 7 or 8 isn't enough for me at all.

 

[Syckle78]

We debated back and forth on "tanking" in another topic. Trading Mantha right now is tanking. There is no hockey purpose for it, outside of trying to improve draft selection. He is, as of now, likely to re-sign and with the cap being frozen for the next three years... I think his agent will have a very hard time pushing for some beyond the pale salary.

Tell me that Mantha turns down 8/52 if the Wings bring it to him, right now.

Yeah let's give 8/52 to someone who can't stay healthy and who quite frankly hasn't earned it. Fantastic idea to kick start a new era of albatross contracts.

 

[Syckle78]

So in turn we should trade a star player who is at times an unstoppable force with good skating ability and a large reach - a 70P player who can get 30+ goals? At the same time relatively consistent last couple of seasons.

I forgot they grow on trees.

I thought this was about Mantha definitely not trading who you described.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah let's give 8/52 to someone who can't stay healthy and who quite frankly hasn't earned it. Fantastic idea to kick start a new era of albatross contracts.

Mantha has kept getting hurt because he wants to fight and he's not a fighter. Literally, his injuries have been from fighting Witter, fighting Nemeth, and fighting Muzzin. So if they sign him to a long term contract, they get in his ear about not throwing hands and all of a sudden the injury "bug" goes away. And the whole point of signing him to 8/52 (6.5M AAV) is that you're projecting a little bit.

You're not going to have every player on your roster play for a five dollar footlong. It is a little bit of a risk, but Mantha certainly has the best chance on the roster (outside of Larkin, I suppose) to outplay his contract if you can get him signed for 6.5M AAV long term.

You can't be scared of offering term to a guy because bad contracts have been signed in the past. Anthony Mantha has legitimate skill and the best chance of giving you surplus value. If you wait until he "proves it", enjoy paying him 8-9M for a couple years or trading him for essentially pennies.

 

[Ezekial]

I think locking up Mantha for 8 years at 6.5 million would be an incredible deal. He didn't go 3 games without scoring a point this year so he was pretty consistent. He was definitely the most dominant Wing night in and night out when healthy.

 

[KJoe88]

I thought this was about Mantha definitely not trading who you described.

I understand but since we happened to place 4th OA some posters have been blabbering the other two names as well.

 

[Winger98]

I think locking up Mantha for 8 years at 6.5 million would be an incredible deal. He didn't go 3 games without scoring a point this year so he was pretty consistent. He was definitely the most dominant Wing night in and night out when healthy.

Which is why Mantha shouldn't be going for it. His value is down because of the C19 mess and some freak injuries. He gets as big a deal as he can for two or three years, let the league finances stabilize, and can then look at cashing a bigger check.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Which is why Mantha shouldn't be going for it. His value is down because of the C19 mess and some freak injuries. He gets as big a deal as he can for two or three years, let the league finances stabilize, and can then look at cashing a bigger check.

No reason for Detroit not to ask him, anyway. Sure, he could do that and stretch to UFA and that’s probably a bigger payday for him. 52 million in the bank seems pretty damn good when you take the Labanc situation into view and the C-19 issue.

Mantha shouldn’t go for it if he wants top dollar and to make as much as possible. Taking the contract to the end of the frozen cap is probably his more prudent move. But if he really wants to stay in Detroit long term... there are certainly worse things than having a guaranteed contract that gives you 52M and leaves you as a UFA at 33, which if you age gracefully could be young enough for another contract

 

[jkutswings]

If there's a sucker willing to give Detroit a king's ransom for Mantha, then sure. A deal too good to pass up is exactly that.

But I'm not expecting that to happen, and I'm not yet in any rush whatsoever to trade Anthony Mantha.

 

[Snuggs]

He is our most talented player, I think Larkin is more important but that is it and I don't think anybody is under the illusion that he is actually more talented than Mantha.

Those two do actually have positive underlying numbers and are quality first line players though. I think Bertuzzi is close and certainly a top 6 guy, but Mantha and Larkin are our only real first line caliber players and they do it with the other team being allowed to key on them which isn't easy.

Yeah, I was going to say, come on.... When Mantha was in the lineup Red Wings actually had a top 20 line with Bertuzzi/Larkin/Mantha.

He was easily, easily our most talented offensive player this year when he was on the ice. The injury's sure, you can pin that on him if you want but not that talent. He's good enough for a 6-7 million dollar raise per year, and he'll for sure get it in the open market if he's able to hit UFA.

It's not a good idea to trade Mantha. The only time it becomes a reasonable conversation is if Mantha's let the team know he wants to test UFA. Then you trade him at the TDL or whatever, cause you don't lose guys for nothing, but up till the TDL I think Red Wings make every effort to sign him.

 

[Marky9er]

I mean, he had .88 ppg on a historically terrible team this season. Is that the right team, cuz that's 72 points in 82 games.

Interesting because I looked up his last 82 games dating back to early January 2019 and it was exactly 72 points (32+40). That looks like consistency.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Interesting because I looked up his last 82 games dating back to early January 2019 and it was exactly 72 points (32+40). That looks like consistency.

Mantha has been a stud when in the lineup for the last two seasons. His underlying numbers are good as well. He plays a better defensive game now, he has really turned a corner. I think he has a handful of complete clunkers in that 82 games, but that is to be expected. We have been seeing the ceiling version of Mantha, we just need to get him healthy. I don't know if that will happen, I am relieved that the injuries he has suffered don't seem the kind that carry long-term problems though I assume he suffered a concussion when Jake Muzzin went WWE on him. Still the player he has evolved into is really really good.

I wouldn't be quick to move him. This is the kind of talent you lock up long-term. I get that some of the long-term deals that have been handed out here were accidents and had too much term. Handing out a big contract to your most talented player that has first line skills and production and would be 26-34 on the maximum length deal isn't a problem for me. Keep in mind he has more tread on his tires because of the time off as well, you cannot crush that element and then pretend he has another 150 games of wear on him. If you sign him for three more years to make sure on some of this then try to do the long-term deal well it would be a problem for me there. There is risk in this, there always will be and those that pretend you can make decisions without it don't understand the true nature of the business. I am happy to risk it with Anthony Mantha, I see the talent, I can justify the investment. I get that some cannot, but that is where I stand.

If he wants out that changes my entire opinion. But as of 5 days before the stoppage, Mantha went on record that he wants to be here and he wants to be here long-term and fix this. I want him here for that as well. If somebody comes in and massively overpays us then that is also fine, but I am not dealing him for a fair return at this point, no way.

 

[Marky9er]

Mantha has been a stud when in the lineup for the last two seasons. His underlying numbers are good as well. He plays a better defensive game now, he has really turned a corner. I think he has a handful of complete clunkers in that 82 games, but that is to be expected. We have been seeing the ceiling version of Mantha, we just need to get him healthy. I don't know if that will happen, I am relieved that the injuries he has suffered don't seem the kind that carry long-term problems though I assume he suffered a concussion when Jake Muzzin went WWE on him. Still the player he has evolved into is really really good.

I wouldn't quick to move him. This is the kind of talent you lock up long-term. I get that some of the long-term deals that have been handed out here were accidents and had too much term. Handing out a big contract to your most talented player that has first line skills and production and would 26-34 on the maximum length deal isn't a problem for me. If you sign him for three more years then try to do the long-term deal well it would be a problem for me there.

I definitely don't want to trade him. I think there could come a time/offer that SY couldn't refuse, though. Anything is possible. If it does happen we're getting a young blue chip building block I'm certain.