Proposal: Viability in Trading Mantha to New Jersey or Buffalo for their 1st Rounder?

ShippinItDaily

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Apr 28, 2004
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Buffalo picks 8th and New Jersey picks 7th. Both teams are further along in their rebuild than Detroit, but still have significant holes to fill.

Mantha would likely be the best winger on either team (I would say for sure on NJ). He carries some risk with his injury history, but that could be presented as an opportunity to sign him long term at potentially a significant discount. For Detroit, you wouldn't get to maximize his best years as you won't be competing as a top team in the league for quite a few seasons yet. For either of those franchises, you already have some young, elite talent and could benefit from a player like Mantha right away AND during a highly competitive window.

So, who says no if Mantha is offered for either of those picks? How much more would you add if you're Yzerman?
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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Anyone not named Zadina or Seider or the Wings' first rounders should be on the table for the right price. Getting a 2nd top 10 would be a boon for a rebuild that is likely going to need take a step back anyway.
 

Rzombo4 prez

Registered User
May 17, 2012
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When was the last time that a top 10 pick was traded for a player? I honestly can't remember. I don't think there is any question that Detroit needs to add.
 

simonedvinsson

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May 26, 2020
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So, who says no if Mantha is offered for either of those picks? How much more would you add if you're Yzerman?
I think that's a pretty reasonable ask. There's not a clear winner. We could end up drafting our own Mark Scheifele/Darnell Nurse type or a total bust. The Red Wings are a few years from contention, and Mantha is the oldest member of our "young forward core". I don't think Mantha's injuries are a huge concern, considering how fluky they've been, but with a concussion on the books, I'm hesitant to bank on him being the backbone of a cup run in 3-5 years.
 

ShippinItDaily

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If it would be possible to get Holtz with that pick, then I could pull the trigger.

You could just take Holtz at #4 and still get a great prospect at #7 or #8. Take care of your goal scorer right away and then let the other teams picking in between decide who you take with your second pick.
 

marcmadsen

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Sep 29, 2016
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Maybe I'm biased, I fully acknowledge that could be a factor here, but I would be disappointed if Mantha was traded straight up for either the 7th or 8th pick. I know they are top-10 picks and they carry a lot of value, but not all top-10 picks turn into the caliber of player Mantha already is....let alone what many believe he could end up as.

The 7th and 8th picks are going to yield a very good prospect, no doubt. And although that might fit the DRW rebuild timing better than Mantha's age, I'd still rather not see that trade unless there was more coming to Detroit than just the pick. I think with the flat cap, we're goign to see Mantha's contract come in at a nicer cap hit than expected
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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I wouldn't trade him for that alone. I would want two of Jerseys first rounders and Buffalo needs to add. Mantha is a fantastic hockey player when healthy. More talented than Jordan Staal who is my bare minimum return on this and the baseline.

He went for an 8th and a top 5 prospect with top 4 d potential.
 
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lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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its all depends of Mantha asking price. if we get him for example 6 mil for 6 years , keep him
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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It could very well pay off in a few years but I don't really understand it from our perspective

Do we not want to win ANY games? Or have Florida level attendance?
 
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FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
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I wouldn't trade our best player unless a top 3 pick this year is coming back. He's 25 years old, not 32. He's still gonna be around when Detroit is good again. I don't understand the obsession of trading a 6'5 almost ppg winger.

Sometimes he looks like he's got "future bad contract" written all over him. It's tempting to maximize him as an asset if you don't feel like he'll be a reliable core player.

Right now I'm erring on the side of not trading him for just a top ten pick.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
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nah I would want a better return than the 8th or 9th best 18 year old not yet in the NHL.

The red wings have a big problem though. Becasue the wings waited so long to officially rebuild there is a pretty significant age gap between players like Seider and Hronik and Mantha and Larkin

Mantha and Larkin are going to hit their pay days before Sider and Hronik even hit their max potential stride. Mantha and Larkin could actually be veteran depth by the time this team actually has a stanley cup core.

I am not completely opposed to the thought of moving Mantha, however it needs to be a significant piece to our core that is more in line with the rebuilding time frame of 18-20 year olds.
 

Kronwalled55

Detroit vs. Everybody
Jan 7, 2011
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I think Mantha is still hitting his prime. Lets wait a little bit longer and see where we stand in a couple of years. His value should continue to rise.

As previously mentioned in this thread, he's only 25
 

Bench

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Aug 14, 2011
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This seems like making a trade for the sake of making a trade.

Yes, but the #8 overall pick could be anything. It could even be someone as good as Anthony Mantha!

The fact is, Mantha looked awesome last year when he was on the ice. Just hang onto him. He won't be dead at 30. We'll need guys like him to actually start winning games in a few years.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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I wouldn't trade him for that alone. I would want two of Jerseys first rounders and Buffalo needs to add. Mantha is a fantastic hockey player when healthy. More talented than Jordan Staal who is my bare minimum return on this and the baseline.

He went for an 8th and a top 5 prospect with top 4 d potential.

If we could pull 7 & 10 for Mantha, it'd be huge. Can't imagine it actually happening, though. With Buffalo, I guess Mittlestadt would be the add? The bloom has come off his rose a bit. Maybe Matti Samuelsson could be worked in?

It could very well pay off in a few years but I don't really understand it from our perspective

Do we not want to win ANY games? Or have Florida level attendance?

Maximizing assets to shorten the rebuild by dealing off a guy unlikely to play a significant role when the Wings are good again. Mantha turns 26 this september. I think we're looking at, a bare minimum, 3 years to turn it around. Which would make it close to workable with Mantha as a 29 yr old, main contributor. If it takes 5 years? We're looking at a likely declining 31 year old Mantha. He might not be a bad player, but what if by trading him we could grab....I don't know, Holtz and Askarov? If the Wings walk out of this draft with something like Perfetti, Holtz, and Askarov I think they would be setting themselves up really well going forward.

It really just comes down to when everyone expects the Wings to be good again.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
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He might not be a bad player, but what if by trading him we could grab....I don't know, Holtz and Askarov?

I mean if you create a scenario where we get 2 top 10 draft picks for Mantha, then sure, it's on the table. But I don't think that offer will ever be on the table. And as a result, you're just punting on the hope you get someone as good as Mantha in a few years.

I don't see any reason to believe Mantha should dramatically lose his scoring over age 30. The skills he relies on aren't particularly related to speed or quickness. His skating should maintain, he has nice fundamentals.

I may be in the minority, but I'd absolutely build around Mantha. I think he's good enough to maintain a spot on the top PP and first line for any champion caliber team. He showed a ton last year with literally no support around him.
 

NickH8

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Jul 3, 2015
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I'd like to keep him around. Sure you could get someone better at 7 or 8 but how much better than Mantha? Especially if he can be a 70-80 point winger playing full seasons. You want actual examples for young guys to follow. Not Abdelkader or Nielsen. Say we start getting good five years from now, he's 30, he could potentially still be a very good player by then and a solid veteran piece. Probably very good in the playoffs as well.

It's not the same because we'd be getting good value, but it would be somewhat similar to the Ryan O'Reilly trade. Just because a player is hitting their peak doesn't meant they can't help you in the future.
 
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ShippinItDaily

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If we could pull 7 & 10 for Mantha, it'd be huge. Can't imagine it actually happening, though. With Buffalo, I guess Mittlestadt would be the add? The bloom has come off his rose a bit. Maybe Matti Samuelsson could be worked in?



Maximizing assets to shorten the rebuild by dealing off a guy unlikely to play a significant role when the Wings are good again. Mantha turns 26 this september. I think we're looking at, a bare minimum, 3 years to turn it around. Which would make it close to workable with Mantha as a 29 yr old, main contributor. If it takes 5 years? We're looking at a likely declining 31 year old Mantha. He might not be a bad player, but what if by trading him we could grab....I don't know, Holtz and Askarov? If the Wings walk out of this draft with something like Perfetti, Holtz, and Askarov I think they would be setting themselves up really well going forward.

It really just comes down to when everyone expects the Wings to be good again.

Exactly. That is what this post was predicated on.

I think Mantha is a fantastic player, hovering around the top 10 at his position. But he is already 26 this fall and not likely to get much better, if at all. In fact, he could have already peaked. That might seem ridiculous to some, especially given how well he performed on such a bad team this year, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility. It's at least worth considering in evaluating what his career could look like moving forward.

If the goal is to just not get embarrassed anymore then of course you don't trade him. But if the goal is to get to a point where you could be competing for a Stanley Cup again, and doing so as soon as possible, then you need to try and maximize the returns on your assets. There's no guarantee you get a player as good as Mantha at 7 or 8, but if you're never going to compete with Mantha as top line forward, then you need to consider when you should move him. Scenarios like this year with New Jersey and Buffalo won't be available every single year. That seems to be something that has been taken for granted in the responses so far.

There's also contract risk with Mantha. His value could go up or down based on the term and money.

You can always sign a free agent or two with the cap space that would have gone to Mantha now being entirely freed up. That player is almost certainly not going to be as good as Mantha, but could still turn out to be real useful and perhaps someone to re-up after a short deal for useful middle six depth. I'm thinking of a player like Granlund, but not sure how much his down season will effect his market price.

I think this could go either way, but I'd lean towards moving Mantha for sure if there was extra value thrown in from Buffalo or New Jersey. I think its a tough spot and I see the merits of either moving or holding.
 

kliq

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
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nah I would want a better return than the 8th or 9th best 18 year old not yet in the NHL.

The red wings have a big problem though. Becasue the wings waited so long to officially rebuild there is a pretty significant age gap between players like Seider and Hronik and Mantha and Larkin

Mantha and Larkin are going to hit their pay days before Sider and Hronik even hit their max potential stride. Mantha and Larkin could actually be veteran depth by the time this team actually has a stanley cup core.

I am not completely opposed to the thought of moving Mantha, however it needs to be a significant piece to our core that is more in line with the rebuilding time frame of 18-20 year olds.

Maybe I give it to you with Mantha, but not with Larkin. Zadina is 20 years old, Larkin is 23. We're not talking an 18 year old and a 28 year old here. You can't get too cute and hope that all your players are the exact same age, its never going to happen.
 

FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
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Yes, but the #8 overall pick could be anything. It could even be someone as good as Anthony Mantha!

Well it's obvious you gotta go with the mystery box...

247.gif
 
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Bench

3 is a good start
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Maybe I give it to you with Mantha, but not with Larkin. Zadina is 20 years old, Larkin is 23. We're not talking an 18 year old and a 28 year old here. You can't get too cute and hope that all your players are the exact same age, its never going to happen.

In fact, having players all graduate to UFA contracts around the same time is pretty brutal to your salary cap.

Mantha signs an extension that will, league revenue returning to normal in 3 years, keep taking up less of the cap percentage. As opposed to a newly minted UFA that will command top percentage value.

We'll need guys with dropping percentages in 5 years, not every single player hitting RFA looking to gobble up UFA years.
 

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