Proposal: Viability in Trading Mantha to New Jersey or Buffalo for their 1st Rounder?

[Bench]

Well it's obvious you gotta go with the mystery box...

 

[PullHard]

Maximizing assets to shorten the rebuild by dealing off a guy unlikely to play a significant role when the Wings are good again. Mantha turns 26 this september. I think we're looking at, a bare minimum, 3 years to turn it around. Which would make it close to workable with Mantha as a 29 yr old, main contributor. If it takes 5 years? We're looking at a likely declining 31 year old Mantha. He might not be a bad player, but what if by trading him we could grab....I don't know, Holtz and Askarov? If the Wings walk out of this draft with something like Perfetti, Holtz, and Askarov I think they would be setting themselves up really well going forward.

It really just comes down to when everyone expects the Wings to be good again.

I get that and not saying I 100% disagree with it, I just hope (as a fan) if that is the route that Yzerman thinks yields the best longer term outlook, he signs Hoffman and Dadonov to replace lost offense

I still care about the team being involved in games at least a little bit, and hope for our young players that they are still hanging around in games in the later part of next regular season

IMO going into next season down Mantha after 17 wins would be a tough pill to swallow

If I'm Bertuzzi, Larkin, etc. I'm thinking "I need to hit UFA"

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yes, but the #8 overall pick could be anything. It could even be someone as good as Anthony Mantha!

The fact is, Mantha looked awesome last year when he was on the ice. Just hang onto him. He won't be dead at 30. We'll need guys like him to actually start winning games in a few years.

Agreed.

This team is in desperate need of talent. Anthony Mantha has talent. It doesn't seem like the best move to trade him for a pick that might be as good or slightly better.

 

[Winger98]

I mean if you create a scenario where we get 2 top 10 draft picks for Mantha, then sure, it's on the table. But I don't think that offer will ever be on the table. And as a result, you're just punting on the hope you get someone as good as Mantha in a few years.

I don't see any reason to believe Mantha should dramatically lose his scoring over age 30. The skills he relies on aren't particularly related to speed or quickness. His skating should maintain, he has nice fundamentals.

I may be in the minority, but I'd absolutely build around Mantha. I think he's good enough to maintain a spot on the top PP and first line for any champion caliber team. He showed a ton last year with literally no support around him.

In five years is Mantha going to be as good as Mantha is now? Not just goal scoring, but his ability to occasionally take over games and move them to his will? And are the Wings going to need a player to do that in Mantha's spot to be a legit good team?

In five years, I think Mantha can probably still put points on the board (if he can stay healthy), but Shanny led the Wings in scoring in 02. Was he nearly as dominant a player on the ice as he was in 97? I don't think it was even close. So, yeah, we're definitely hoping to get someone as good as Mantha, but the key is those three or four years in age difference between them and when they are likely to be at their highest impact on the ice.

I'm also not sold on him aging as well as you are. While I think he'll still be able to get his points, big guys really don't seem to age well in the NHL. And with the direction the league has gone, that spells a lot of trouble if Mantha does lose any foot speed.

 

[Winger98]

I get that and not saying I 100% disagree with it, I just hope (as a fan) if that is the route that Yzerman thinks yields the best longer term outlook, he signs Hoffman and Dadonov to replace lost offense

I still care about the team being involved in games at least a little bit, and hope for our young players that they are still hanging around in games in the later part of next regular season

IMO going into next season down Mantha after 17 wins would be a tough pill to swallow

If I'm Bertuzzi, Larkin, etc. I'm thinking "I need to hit UFA"

This won't be popular here but I think they should be looking at that anyway. Larkin might be, considering his current deal allows him to step straight into his UFA years.

 

[Bench]

In five years is Mantha going to be as good as Mantha is now? Not just goal scoring, but his ability to occasionally take over games and move them to his will? And are the Wings going to need a player to do that in Mantha's spot to be a legit good team?

In five years, I think Mantha can probably still put points on the board (if he can stay healthy), but Shanny led the Wings in scoring in 02. Was he nearly as dominant a player on the ice as he was in 97? I don't think it was even close. So, yeah, we're definitely hoping to get someone as good as Mantha, but the key is those three or four years in age difference between them and when they are likely to be at their highest impact on the ice.

I'm also not sold on him aging as well as you are. While I think he'll still be able to get his points, big guys really don't seem to age well in the NHL. And with the direction the league has gone, that spells a lot of trouble if Mantha does lose any foot speed.

All of this makes perfect sense.

But I'd still bet on Mantha here. He's an above average skater and he won't lose his scoring touch. I don't see any reason why his game should fall off a cliff at 30. He's not a bruiser or anything. Blake Wheeler is a big boy doing great after 30. I don't see why Mantha can't follow suit.

I'll dare you to tell me which player this is describing.

Has tremendous size and reach for the wing position, as well as good wheels for a big guy. Controls the puck effectively in the corners and possesses a good scoring touch. Is at his best when driving through traffic areas. At times, he stops moving his feet and becomes a little lazy on the ice. Should also use his massive size more frequently so as to become more intimidating to play against. Can go through important scoring slumps.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

This won't be popular here but I think they should be looking at that anyway. Larkin might be, considering his current deal allows him to step straight into his UFA years.

I think we would have to do a really bad job for Larkin to leave. I can see it happening, less so with Yzerman in town who will have a lot of equity with Larkin, his family, friends and the dressing room.

We will see, he is the one I have the hardest time believing will go. But he is one of the most competitive people on earth so if he doesn't believe the plan well... Keep in mind they are slapping the C on him this fall.

I think Mantha will age well. I think if we cannot turn it around quickly we are wasting a player that will play his best hockey in the post-season in Bertuzzi. He is a guy that if I am a contender I go hard after if he is available. We will have to see what Mantha and Bertuzzi do contract wise though.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

nah I would want a better return than the 8th or 9th best 18 year old not yet in the NHL.

The red wings have a big problem though. Becasue the wings waited so long to officially rebuild there is a pretty significant age gap between players like Seider and Hronik and Mantha and Larkin

Mantha and Larkin are going to hit their pay days before Sider and Hronik even hit their max potential stride. Mantha and Larkin could actually be veteran depth by the time this team actually has a stanley cup core.

I am not completely opposed to the thought of moving Mantha, however it needs to be a significant piece to our core that is more in line with the rebuilding time frame of 18-20 year olds.

I'm against a Mantha trade, but I'd entertain solid offers. Konecky level F & Dprospect/Dman+ 7&8th + cap dump.

 

[19 for president]

If someone offers two top 10 picks then yeah you deal Mantha. There is like a 2% chance of that happening.

If we are making trades I'd rather make trades to move the rebuild up and fit our current timeline better. Give me Sergachev for the 4th (if one of Stuzzle/Byfield don't fall) and go hard after Hall. I'd rather deal with knowns than pray on the draft gods.

As for Mantha's game, I don't see it being a huge issue. He isn't super physical. Snipers age just fine.

The guy I'd be afraid would age badly is Larkin. I can see a major fall off after his 20s due to his game being largely based on skating. Those players often have a major fall off once they hit 30.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Aaaahhhh, the 'ole trade your 25yr.old Speedy/Skilled/Sized/PF for a Magic Bean trick ehh?

Not on my watch.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'd want a good young d-man in return, ie the player Dennis Cholowski was supposed to be. We've got Seider and Hronek so adding another good young d-man would go a long way towards getting the top 4 set for when we are good again. So a top 10 pick + a really good young D would be my asking price.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't like it at all for Detroit. For me to like it, it's got to be an offer that you're simply not going to get. Like you're not going to get two top 10 picks for him without it being a bigger package from Detroit too. Mantha for 7 or Mantha for 10? No interest from me.

 

[Retire91]

Maybe I give it to you with Mantha, but not with Larkin. Zadina is 20 years old, Larkin is 23. We're not talking an 18 year old and a 28 year old here. You can't get too cute and hope that all your players are the exact same age, its never going to happen.

I agree but there is also kind of a weird generation gap in our core. But its not outlandish if my statement came off that way. Kane and Towes are 4 years apart so its not a bad spread. When rebuilding its nice to have cap in the bank for the restricted free agent days but we are likely going to have our top 2 paid players also be our oldest. Again not the end of the world just something to note.

 

[LeighDx59]

Id consider moving Mantha if it got us a top 3 pick, other than that id rather hold onto him.

 

[odin1981]

Your best ability is your availability and he gets hurt all the time in his prime, let alone when he is 30+. And he is a winger. Why would anyone want him for a top ten?

 

[PullHard]

I agree but there is also kind of a weird generation gap in our core. But its not outlandish if my statement came off that way. Kane and Towes are 4 years apart so its not a bad spread. When rebuilding its nice to have cap in the bank for the restricted free agent days but we are likely going to have our top 2 paid players also be our oldest. Again not the end of the world just something to note.

unrelated to core/ age talk but Kane and Toews are both 88s

 

[Bench]

unrelated to core/ age talk but Kane and Toews are both 88s

Also unrelated...

But god, I remember reading the articles when they were teens coming into the league. That feels like a lifetime ago. And I thought Cam Barker was going to be a monster. Um, whoops.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Mantha is a nice player to have in our core for the next 7-8 years. If we ever want to get out of a rebuild we should avoid trading our good players.

 

[MBH]

Buffalo picks 8th and New Jersey picks 7th. Both teams are further along in their rebuild than Detroit, but still have significant holes to fill.

Mantha would likely be the best winger on either team (I would say for sure on NJ). He carries some risk with his injury history, but that could be presented as an opportunity to sign him long term at potentially a significant discount. For Detroit, you wouldn't get to maximize his best years as you won't be competing as a top team in the league for quite a few seasons yet. For either of those franchises, you already have some young, elite talent and could benefit from a player like Mantha right away AND during a highly competitive window.

So, who says no if Mantha is offered for either of those picks? How much more would you add if you're Yzerman?

Not sure why either team would take Mantha.
He's about to get REAL expensive despite never scoring 25 goals.
He's got 2-3 years left, most likely, at his athletic prime.
And these teams aren't close to having winners.
So why not just stay where they are, draft Holtz, or Quinn, or Raymond/Perfetti, if they fall that far.
Montreal, at 9, could be an option.
They've got enough talent on their roster and they frankly can't afford to do anything but try to win when they've got Price and Weber under contract. But even still, yeah, Montreal needs a winger. But is an expensive winger at the top of their wants list?
And I think I'd want a bit more than 9th overall for Mantha. Not sure they'd give it.

So, I'm glad to trade Mantha in the right deal. But I don't know any team gives us what I think we'd need to make it worth it.

But, yzerman traded Athanasiou for a couple bags of pucks. So who knows?

 

[RabidBadger]

Mantha is a nice player to have in our core for the next 7-8 years. If we ever want to get out of a rebuild we should avoid trading our good players.

Agreed. It would further gut an already gutted talent pool. If you trade Mantha now you at least have to bring in a free agent to replace him. There's no guarantee that would be a positive for the team.

People need to keep in mind our few future core players are still developing. They need good players to develop with.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

But, yzerman traded Athanasiou for a couple bags of pucks. So who knows?

A trade he is winning right now, I know it is a tough blow to the leader of the AA fan-club. He was just as bad in Edmonton if not worse. Sorry champ, AA is a really bad hockey player when he chooses not to engage, which is for roughly 90% of the time he is playing.

That was the return he could get a pure offensive floater specialist. Guy has about as much value as Glendening and really there is nobody to blame for that except AA. I really hope he used the deal as a kick in the ass and put it together. Enormous talent, but for whatever reason he doesn't want to tap in on it, it is is sad. But man am I glad he isn't trying to trade him at the draft with a flat cap, thank goodness Yzerman cut the cord.

Mantha isn't AA, he might get hurt a lot. But we haven't had nearly the same issues of him playing hard for several years now. Other GMs are not going to view him the same way. He should return a very healthy package. But you're never going to build a winning team without some decent vets to teach them. Will Mantha, Bert and Larkin be great when we do the winning? Hard to say. But we are going to need some talent to bring up the next generation. We are going to need some of these guys. I know there is the faction that feels we are already in full tank mode, we really are not, trading the Bertuzzi's and Mantha types is a real tank job, a gruesome deal. If you get to the end of these next deals or a few years in and moves open up fine, we shouldn't be in a rush to gut the only real top six talent we have. What the hell are we going to watch during this if we don't at least keep those three guys?

 

[evolutionbaby]

I love Mantha. But drafting 4th made me re-consider a move and I’m for it. In this instance I’d consider if there was more involved. Not for those picks alone. However, if we move him later on it, it probably won’t be for top 10 picks but quantity picks. Later first, B prospect, 2-3 rd pick

 

[Winger98]

I think we would have to do a really bad job for Larkin to leave. I can see it happening, less so with Yzerman in town who will have a lot of equity with Larkin, his family, friends and the dressing room.

We will see, he is the one I have the hardest time believing will go. But he is one of the most competitive people on earth so if he doesn't believe the plan well... Keep in mind they are slapping the C on him this fall.

I think Mantha will age well. I think if we cannot turn it around quickly we are wasting a player that will play his best hockey in the post-season in Bertuzzi. He is a guy that if I am a contender I go hard after if he is available. We will have to see what Mantha and Bertuzzi do contract wise though.

I don't think larkin will force his way out, but I think all three of those guys should be looking at it. And if I was Mantha, I'd be leveraging it for either a big long term contract or just go arby and walk into UFA.

The Wings are going to be bad for quite awhile. Their careers are finite. They should play hardball to either get contracts that compensate for taking on long term spots on bad teams or go to places that aren't as likely to be bottom5-10 for the next five years. I think hockey players in general don't play hard enough in their contract negotiations, though.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

I agree but there is also kind of a weird generation gap in our core. But its not outlandish if my statement came off that way. Kane and Towes are 4 years apart so its not a bad spread. When rebuilding its nice to have cap in the bank for the restricted free agent days but we are likely going to have our top 2 paid players also be our oldest. Again not the end of the world just something to note.

Are we talking about the same Kane and Toews? Kane is a late 88 birthday, hence going in 07. Where as Toews is an earlier birthdate, hence 06 draft.

 

[Bondurant]

Players are assets. Every player has a price but would Buffalo or New Jersey give up a top ten pick for Mantha? I don't think so.