Confirmed with Link: [VAN/TOR] Vancouver acquires Josh Leivo in exchange for Michael Carcone.

[mossey3535]

Sometimes though it's better to take the chance that an unscratched scratch ticket will yield something more useful than a bottom six winger (which you can often get for free off of waivers). Sure, if you're playing the odds, most picks in the 2nd round & beyond will yield nothing but that doesn't mean you should trade them all away for marginal players.

Yeah I agree. People forget that Baertschi and Leivo are specific examples of players who were known to not have been given a fair shake by the coach or organization. There's a differene between a player that has not been given a chance for basically political reasons but has and upside that you can see and a player who has upside mostly because of their age but their parent club has already seen enough that they've decided to move on.

 

[docbenton]

I don't think he's a true top 6 guy by any means, doesn't have the greatest playmaking ability it seems. But he can be a good versatile guy who can play in different spots and brings some balance to our lineup in terms of size. Contrary to popular belief good middle/bottom 6 forwards (emphasis on GOOD) are not readily available via waivers or free agency, although one can get lucky once in a while.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

There's some great 'hot takes' on this trade by the knee-jerk committee/reactionary crowd...Feel free to go to the beginning of the thread.. and read on for some light entertainment.

 

[EpochLink]

Leivo proving to be a player, I am enjoying him being on this team.

Team morale is high right now, keep it going.

 

[Melvin]

There's some great 'hot takes' on this trade by the knee-jerk committee/reactionary crowd...Feel free to go to the beginning of the thread.. and read on for some light entertainment.

Did I miss Leivo winning the hart trophy? He won't even be on the team next year.

 

[Pip]

I don't think he's a true top 6 guy by any means, doesn't have the greatest playmaking ability it seems. But he can be a good versatile guy who can play in different spots and brings some balance to our lineup in terms of size. Contrary to popular belief good middle/bottom 6 forwards (emphasis on GOOD) are not readily available via waivers or free agency, although one can get lucky once in a while.

I’d disagree with the last point. Just because Benning continuously brings in terrible overpaid veterans or crap like Granlund and Vey doesn’t prove that good bottom 6 forwards are not available for free.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Did I miss Leivo winning the hart trophy? He won't even be on the team next year.

Another 'hot take"..?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I thought the goal Leivo was credited with went in off Tuna.

Was surprised they didn't change the scoring on that.

But anyway, no real assets were lost in the Leivo deal, damage was minimal. The real question I have is; what does Jimbo wind up giving up for Slater Koekoek?

 

[Regal]

I’d disagree with the last point. Just because Benning continuously brings in terrible overpaid veterans or crap like Granlund and Vey doesn’t prove that good bottom 6 forwards are not available for free.

Such as? Crap players like Granlund and Vey are available for free, and it was a mistake to spend assets on them. It's rare actual good bottom 6 players are available for free unless you overpay for them in free agency

 

[clunk]

I thought the goal Leivo was credited with went in off Tuna.

Was surprised they didn't change the scoring on that.

But anyway, no real assets were lost in the Leivo deal, damage was minimal. The real question I have is; what does Jimbo wind up giving up for Slater Koekoek?

Went in off the Jackets d-man next to him. It was very hard to see, but there's a good angle of it out there somewhere.

 

[varano]

Small offensive players that don't produce anything in their first two pro years are the definition of career AHLers. A home run for JB as he got something for nothing. There is no way Carcone plays 10 games in the NHL. He is clearly less talented then Shinkaruk or Valk who will never be NHL players. Leivo is still only a bottom 6 guy but a different level of ability.

lol.....

The leafs had a handshake agreement with Leivo because we had his RFA rights and chose to re-sign him under our control.

He was told that if we couldn't utilize him in a proper role, he would be moved to a team that could use him in a role. The Canucks have space to use him in a middle six role, and we the leafs don't. Its as easy as that. This trade was about the leafs living up to their word more than it was getting something of value back. No one specifically cares about carcone, we just wanted someone that could play for the marlies and wasn't a complete wash. I think we can both admit that Benning rarely hits a home run in trades.

As far as Leivo goes... He forecasts as an elite 3rd line winger, and someone who might be able to fill in on a top 6 role if you have an elite centre to get him the puck. He has a boom or bust shot. Its either incredible or 6 feet wide. He has some issues as far as where to be on the ice, and could use some help defensively but that comes with getting proper ice time that the leafs could never give him.

Its a great move for both josh, and the canucks.

 

[varano]

Babcock plays a lot of favourites and makes bad decisions as a result. Leivo got the right kind of usage with the Leafs for a short time in 2016-17 as the result of an injury, then tried to make him a 4th liner in defensive usage to say "we gave him a chance" after that. If you guys keep using him the way you are, you're going to be very happy with the result, he always looked like a terrific support player for a scoring line and his upside might be very surprising

this trade is going to be a regret for Leaf fans,
signed,
A Leaf Fan

The leafs will have no regret over this. He never impressed once this season because he gets lost in our forward group. He IS a good supporting player though. We just have too many forwards...

He was given chances. I never saw him hustle like brown,hyman or kapanen. When those guys weren't scoring, they ALWAYS did something. Josh never did. Now he'll get a chance to show what he's made of. I think he's a 40 point guy.

 

[tantalum]

The leafs will have no regret over this. He never impressed once this season because he gets lost in our forward group. He IS a good supporting player though. We just have too many forwards...

He was given chances. I never saw him hustle like brown,hyman or kapanen. When those guys weren't scoring, they ALWAYS did something. Josh never did. Now he'll get a chance to show what he's made of. I think he's a 40 point guy.

The bolded is why if he continues to be that player he will also continue to be scratched or get minimal ice. It doesn't matter what team he is on. I think that analysis very much contradicts the statement that he is a good supporting player. That type of play is what makes players forgettable. I'm sure he can be a 40 point guy but if those traits hold then whatever team he's getting 40 points on will not be a good one. Sure that describes the canucks but it also means the move really wouldn't be making them better. It's a deck chairs on the titanic type thing.

Note I mention if those traits hold and quite honestly outside of his first period as a canuck they seem to be holding. If he doesn't start showing something outside some decent play deep in the offensive zone he won't be in the lineup everyday. Even on this team.

 

[Pip]

I feel like people are going to sour on him pretty quick. Just not a very good player overall, hence why he was dumped by the Leafs. Good players find ways to make even the deepest of rosters. We can’t be building our team with players not good enough to crack the top 9 of other teams. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Ryp37]

The bolded is why if he continues to be that player he will also continue to be scratched or get minimal ice. It doesn't matter what team he is on. I think that analysis very much contradicts the statement that he is a good supporting player. That type of play is what makes players forgettable. I'm sure he can be a 40 point guy but if those traits hold then whatever team he's getting 40 points on will not be a good one. Sure that describes the canucks but it also means the move really wouldn't be making them better. It's a deck chairs on the titanic type thing.

Note I mention if those traits hold and quite honestly outside of his first period as a canuck they seem to be holding. If he doesn't start showing something outside some decent play deep in the offensive zone he won't be in the lineup everyday. Even on this team.

No kidding. How does a guy with no hustle forecast as an elite third liner?

I mean I'm still gonna hold out hope but this guy looks exactly like a highly skilled AHL'er would given premium minutes. I haven't noticed much of a difference between him and Nicklas Jensen.

 

[varano]

The bolded is why if he continues to be that player he will also continue to be scratched or get minimal ice. It doesn't matter what team he is on. I think that analysis very much contradicts the statement that he is a good supporting player. That type of play is what makes players forgettable. I'm sure he can be a 40 point guy but if those traits hold then whatever team he's getting 40 points on will not be a good one. Sure that describes the canucks but it also means the move really wouldn't be making them better. It's a deck chairs on the titanic type thing.

Note I mention if those traits hold and quite honestly outside of his first period as a canuck they seem to be holding. If he doesn't start showing something outside some decent play deep in the offensive zone he won't be in the lineup everyday. Even on this team.

I think you might be right on some points. As far as a supporting player goes, I think were not on the same page. What I meant as a supporting player was one that can contribute , but not necessarily drive play. To use a canucks reference, think Mason Raymond of past years.

He's never going to be a lunch pail guy if you're thinking thats what I mean by supporting player

 

[varano]

No kidding. How does a guy with no hustle forecast as an elite third liner?

I mean I'm still gonna hold out hope but this guy looks exactly like a highly skilled AHL'er would given premium minutes. I haven't noticed much of a difference between him and Nicklas Jensen.

In a shocking turn of events, the role of a third line player in todays NHL is no longer an energy line. Most teams nowadays try to roll three balanced lines and get what they can from a 4th line.

Can you honestly pick out any team in the league and say that all three players on their third line have "hustle". Every player has a skill set and playing defence first or being a puck hound may not be their thing.

Phil Kessel has built a career around being a top offensive threat while not being great defensively, never forechecking, and never going into corners.. Does that make him a skilled AHLer?

Take Leivo for what he is, a free roll of the dice that will have some sort of NHL role.

 

[I am toxic]

Leivo . . . Kessel . . . yeah . . . no.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The leafs will have no regret over this. He never impressed once this season because he gets lost in our forward group. He IS a good supporting player though. We just have too many forwards...

He was given chances. I never saw him hustle like brown,hyman or kapanen. When those guys weren't scoring, they ALWAYS did something. Josh never did. Now he'll get a chance to show what he's made of. I think he's a 40 point guy.

I don't know how you can think he was given a fair chance here, he was very (and I mean VERY) good any time he got offensive usage with good linemates, so the "fair chance" he got was 4th line minutes in very defensive usage which doesn't suit his skillset (and that he was still good in, fwiw). I think 40-50pt is where he'll end up, which is 2nd line production

I agree that it's a logjam here, he had been better than Brown, Johnsson, Ennis and Hyman this year which means that the meritocracy that Babcock claims to run really has a predetermined set of favourites. I think the Leafs will be more than fine without him, but there's also already trade threads all over the place about us needing a power forward after jettisoning one

Anyway, I don't want to clog up another team's board with Leaf talk, we can agree to disagree

 

[tantalum]

I think you might be right on some points. As far as a supporting player goes, I think were not on the same page. What I meant as a supporting player was one that can contribute , but not necessarily drive play. To use a canucks reference, think Mason Raymond of past years.

He's never going to be a lunch pail guy if you're thinking thats what I mean by supporting player

I'm not saying lunch pail at all. I'm saying nearly ALL NHL players if they expect to be in the lineup need to hustle. They need to contribute during dry spells. It not about the type of player. In that regard Raymond is a terrible comparison...Raymond hustled. It's what kept him in the lineup longer than perhaps was reasonable. A lack of hustle is what gets people removed from the lineup despite having some talents. That's a pretty universal thing for coaches at all levels.

So when I see comments like Babcock had favorites, he wasn't given a chance or that he's better than other players and then see comments of "well he doesn't really hustle or get involved on a consistent basis and when he's not scoring he's not doing anything" and see the same things it's at that point where I can 100% understand why Babcock "played favorites", why he was "never given a chance" and why he is in fact NOT "better" than other players. Coaches have all sorts of reasons to not get players ice but universally "lack of consistent effort/hustle" is right at the top of the list along with "poor defensive coverage".

A hard working, hustling and involved Leivo is likely a better player than many in any lineup in the league. As a canuck fan I hope I start seeing that. I fear I won't and if that's the case then he's a AHL/NHL tweener and nothing more.

 

[WTG]

So far he has exceeded my expectations, so far he's been a good addition to the team.
However, I also remember Liepsics first few games where he looked great. So count me still as cautiously surprised by his play so far.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The little things he does have impressed me most. Good on the boards and screening the goalie. Hopefully he can gel more with Pettersson or Horvat.

 

[VanJack]

I always liked Leivo's game with the Leafs. A big-bodied forward who skates well enough to get in on the forecheck and plays it tough in front of the net. But sometimes players just seem to end up in Babcock's 'no-play' zone in TO. And based on the way Leivo, Motte and Goldy are playing for the Canucks right now, you have to give some props to Benning.

Basically assets acquired for 'free' in trades for players who weren't in the Canucks long-term plans. It's just too bad they couldn't uncover a decent d-man the same way.

 

[PG Canuck]

Still in wait and see mode. Keep producing and perhaps we have something here. Chemistry with line mates takes a bit of time, and Leivo is still learning the tendencies of Pettersson and vice versa.

Would be nice for one player Benning trades for, to work out....just one..

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

I always liked Leivo's game with the Leafs. A big-bodied forward who skates well enough to get in on the forecheck and plays it tough in front of the net. But sometimes players just seem to end up in Babcock's 'no-play' zone in TO. And based on the way Leivo, Motte and Goldy are playing for the Canucks right now, you have to give some props to Benning.

Basically assets acquired for 'free' in trades for players who weren't in the Canucks long-term plans. It's just too bad they couldn't uncover a decent d-man the same way.

For free?
Thats silly.

Hansen was given up for Goldobin.