Confirmed Trade: [VAN/TBL] J.T. Miller for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd round pick, and 2020 conditional 1st round pick

[DeltaSwede]

Most Canuck fans here probably would have been fine with Miller as a target acquisition if he actually bothered to negotiate a price rather than giving Tampa they're starting asking price straight up. Not all 1st round picks are equal, and considering the Canucks position we should have been able to get it done starting with our 2nd.

Hey, I'd be really interested in hearing more about your inside scoops from these meetings you attended. Were you in Tampa at the time or did you just connect in a skype call?

It's so tiring to see so many Canucks fans on this website just crave to continue to lose, continue to just be mediocre and pick at the top of the draft. You don't get anywhere without taking a risk here or there.

The Canucks are betting on themselves. That is the only thing you actually should bet on, if you ever bet on anything. Yea it could be a lottery pick and they will stand there with their pants by their ankles. I still think it was the right call. If it works out it will look great, if it doesn't, it will look bad. Usually how things work.

 

[Dump Itch]

Most Canuck fans here probably would have been fine with Miller as a target acquisition if he actually bothered to negotiate a price rather than giving Tampa they're starting asking price straight up. Not all 1st round picks are equal, and considering the Canucks position we should have been able to get it done starting with our 2nd.

This is you assuming that a 1st, a backup goalie, and a 3rd was their starting price.

I don't see how any manager would ask for a backup goalie as part of a starting price.

 

[RandV]

This is you assuming that a 1st, a backup goalie, and a 3rd was their starting price.

I don't see how any manager would ask for a backup goalie as part of a starting price.

No this is me re-iterating what some media people were reporting of the trade (and no I'm not digging up links), that Tampa's up front asking price was a 1st and a 3rd and Benning straight up agreed without any negotiating. Which is perfectly backed up with other inside reports of Benning's dealings: 'you'll probably want more than just McCann so how about a 2nd', which while that is pretty ambiguous lines up with his 5+ year trade history where the Canucks routinely get poor value deals and give up that little extra.

And minor point but no there was not a backup goalie included in the deal, it was just a minor league goalie that was probably just Vancouver dumping a contract slot even which often happens in trades.

 

[Dump Itch]

No this is me re-iterating what some media people were reporting of the trade (and no I'm not digging up links), that Tampa's up front asking price was a 1st and a 3rd and Benning straight up agreed without any negotiating. Which is perfectly backed up with other inside reports of Benning's dealings: 'you'll probably want more than just McCann so how about a 2nd', which while that is pretty ambiguous lines up with his 5+ year trade history where the Canucks routinely get poor value deals and give up that little extra.

And minor point but no there was not a backup goalie included in the deal, it was just a minor league goalie that was probably just Vancouver dumping a contract slot even which often happens in trades.

I heard Tampa wanted 2 1st round picks based on media reports (and no I'm not digging up links) so good on Benning negotiating down to a 1st and a 3rd.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Not sure why this was bumped or what else there's to discuss. It was and still remains an awful trade by a GM who has made a lot of bad transactions. Miller is a very vanilla complimentary player who can get you some points in spurts but is not a very valuable player at all and doesn't do much else.

Given the salary cap landscape of the lower escalator and Tampa/most other teams being in a tough spot with the cap, to give up a 1st rounder for the player is just awful, no excusing or trying to justify it.

 

[LightningStrikes]

What a dummy that Benning is for getting a young top 6 winger to play with one of his young top 6 centers that has nobody to play with and looks like he's gonna cry at times because he hates his linemates.

Yeah I don't get the hate. The price he paid was maybe a bit high considering that Tampa was looking to clear cap space so Benning might have had a bit more leverage but is his team better now than before the trade? Absolutely. Miller will surprise a lot of people I think. He will not carry a line on his own but when surrounded with talented players (which I guess is a big possibility in Vancouver) he'll shock you - in a positive sense. He has good vision, positioning and a very good shot. If he had used his deadly shot more instead of trying to impersonate Kucherov with his "one more pass" plays his goal and point totals and consequently maybe even his ice time* would have been higher. Don't forget JT Miller was a 15th overall pick himself, is over 0.5 PPG in his career and still only 26 years old.

I say Vancouver will not regret this trade.

*(hard to say really, with our obviously loaded roster and the fact that Miller found himself in Jon Cooper's dog house for w/e reason. Fact is, Miller played a lot on the 3rd or 4th line when most of the fanbase was asking to put him back with Stamkos on the 1st instead of Palat)

 

[Disappointed EP40]

I heard Tampa wanted 2 1st round picks based on media reports (and no I'm not digging up links) so good on Benning negotiating down to a 1st and a 3rd.

No you didn't.

links or it's BS

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I heard Tampa wanted 2 1st round picks based on media reports (and no I'm not digging up links) so good on Benning negotiating down to a 1st and a 3rd.

I never heard this once from anyone. I call BS.

 

[Cogburn]

No you didn't.

links or it's BS

Well where the links confirming that was Tampa's asking price? Can we see the rest of this player price list?

(I know you're not the one that said that was Tampa's asking price, but if you want sources, I want sources)

 

[Cogburn]

No this is me re-iterating what some media people were reporting of the trade (and no I'm not digging up links), that Tampa's up front asking price was a 1st and a 3rd and Benning straight up agreed without any negotiating. Which is perfectly backed up with other inside reports of Benning's dealings: 'you'll probably want more than just McCann so how about a 2nd', which while that is pretty ambiguous lines up with his 5+ year trade history where the Canucks routinely get poor value deals and give up that little extra.

And minor point but no there was not a backup goalie included in the deal, it was just a minor league goalie that was probably just Vancouver dumping a contract slot even which often happens in trades.

The media also said Lucic to Vancouver was a done deal. Yet, mercifully, here we are.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Well where the links confirming that was Tampa's asking price? Can we see the rest of this player price list?

(I know you're not the one that said that was Tampa's asking price, but if you want sources, I want sources)

He made a claim. Not me. I don't need a source for the nothing I claimed. I'm confident enough there's no credible link to the asking price he cited, to call bullshit. Pretty sure he made it up to try to anchor his point.

 

[Canucks1096]

Not sure why this was bumped or what else there's to discuss. It was and still remains an awful trade by a GM who has made a lot of bad transactions. Miller is a very vanilla complimentary player who can get you some points in spurts but is not a very valuable player at all and doesn't do much else.

Given the salary cap landscape of the lower escalator and Tampa/most other teams being in a tough spot with the cap, to give up a 1st rounder for the player is just awful, no excusing or trying to justify it.

It really depends on what your definition of complimentary player is. Miller did put up a 56 P with Hayes and Grabner as his two regular linemates. Just give Miller top 6 mins and without elite talent and he can still put up 56 points. That is not complimentary to me.

 

[bandwagonesque]

No this is me re-iterating what some media people were reporting of the trade (and no I'm not digging up links), that Tampa's up front asking price was a 1st and a 3rd and Benning straight up agreed without any negotiating.

No one reported this. They reported that Benning eventually met Tampa's initial asking price of a 1st and a 3rd. Benning said he deliberately avoided protracted negotiations. No one ever reported Benning didn't negotiate at all. It's apparent he didn't negotiate much, and you can easily argue he didn't negotiate effectively.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Hey, I'd be really interested in hearing more about your inside scoops from these meetings you attended. Were you in Tampa at the time or did you just connect in a skype call?

It's so tiring to see so many Canucks fans on this website just crave to continue to lose, continue to just be mediocre and pick at the top of the draft. You don't get anywhere without taking a risk here or there.

The Canucks are betting on themselves. That is the only thing you actually should bet on, if you ever bet on anything. Yea it could be a lottery pick and they will stand there with their pants by their ankles. I still think it was the right call. If it works out it will look great, if it doesn't, it will look bad. Usually how things work.

Deals like this one are the main f***ing reason why the Canucks have been losing, which you'd know if you bothered to follow the team and actually watch the games. It's amazing to me that people are acting like this is the end of some rebuilding procedure that's been going on; it's not. This is just one more right now deal of the same exact kind Benning has been making since the day he got here. They have failed. This deal is literally just more of the same failed approach. Have a look at the team's transaction history. To say: "Well, the team's sucked for a while, now it's time to go for it!" ignores the inconvenient reality of why it's sucked and that the fact that being bad and rebuilding aren't the same thing. They've got a few good pieces moving forwards as it's really, really hard not to get them when you've sucked for an extended period, but if you really think the team as currently constructed is at a point where they should be trading potential lottery picks for immediate help, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Deals like this one are the main ****ing reason why the Canucks have been losing, which you'd know if you bothered to follow the team and actually watch the games. It's amazing to me that people are acting like this is the end of some rebuilding procedure that's been going on; it's not. This is just one more right now deal of the same exact kind Benning has been making since the day he got here. They have failed. This deal is literally just more of the same failed approach. Have a look at the team's transaction history. To say: "Well, the team's sucked for a while, now it's time to go for it!" ignores the inconvenient reality of why it's sucked and that the fact that being bad and rebuilding aren't the same thing. They've got a few good pieces moving forwards as it's really, really hard not to get them when you've sucked for an extended period, but if you really think the team as currently constructed is at a point where they should be trading potential lottery picks for immediate help, I've got a bridge to sell you.

That bridge got traded already.

 

[justafan22]

Deals like this one are the main ****ing reason why the Canucks have been losing, which you'd know if you bothered to follow the team and actually watch the games. It's amazing to me that people are acting like this is the end of some rebuilding procedure that's been going on; it's not. This is just one more right now deal of the same exact kind Benning has been making since the day he got here. They have failed. This deal is literally just more of the same failed approach. Have a look at the team's transaction history. To say: "Well, the team's sucked for a while, now it's time to go for it!" ignores the inconvenient reality of why it's sucked and that the fact that being bad and rebuilding aren't the same thing. They've got a few good pieces moving forwards as it's really, really hard not to get them when you've sucked for an extended period, but if you really think the team as currently constructed is at a point where they should be trading potential lottery picks for immediate help, I've got a bridge to sell you.

The team has missed the playoffs 4 straight years, and the GM got an extension.

Context matters obviously, but other teams have started rebuilds later than the canucks and made the playoffs sooner.

 

[Cogburn]

The team has missed the playoffs 4 straight years, and the GM got an extension.

Context matters obviously, but other teams have started rebuilds later than the canucks and made the playoffs sooner.

Officially we didn't start a rebuild until last year. Other years were "retooling".

 

[NYRKing]

1st round picks do not get moved that easily, especially in the cap world where young talent is so critical.

I see the best scenario for Vancouver is JT really finds some chemistry and can produce around a 50 point clip for a few years.

I would just be shocked if he took some major step forward. He was inconsistent with NYR and TB, and is a total non-factor in the playoffs...so the fact that this deal can turn into a potential lottery pick (not protected for 2021 right?!) just blows my mind.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

1st round picks do not get moved that easily, especially in the cap world where young talent is so critical.

I see the best scenario for Vancouver is JT really finds some chemistry and can produce around a 50 point clip for a few years.

I would just be shocked if he took some major step forward. He was inconsistent with NYR and TB, and is a total non-factor in the playoffs...so the fact that this deal can turn into a potential lottery pick (not protected for 2021 right?!) just blows my mind.

I'm from Vancouver, but I've been a Bolts fan since I was a kid. Never like the Canucks. But even I cringed when I saw this deal for all the Canucks fans I know.

I don't want to see them fail again for 2 years, because the city is so much better and lively when the Canucks are winning. So much more to do everywhere. Bars are great, restaurants are full watching hockey. It's a great environment. But right now as a Lightning fan, I am seriously rooting for Vancouver to shit the bed for the next two years.

 

[Aoko]

Reading these posts is making my brain cells at odds with one another. That's enough reading on this site for me today.

 

[Lindgren]

The story regarding Tampa's asking price and Vancouver's response came from Ian Macintyre, whose reputation on the Canucks board (justified or not -- personally I have no idea) is that of a guy who's close to Canucks management. From his report:

'The Tampa Bay Lightning had Miller and said it wanted first- and third-round draft picks for him. And the Canucks, rather than haggling for days or weeks, and possibly seeing the forward get traded elsewhere, agreed at the NHL draft on Saturday to the steep price."
​

Rumoured Myers price tag overshadows Canucks' pickup of Miller - Sportsnet.ca

 

[justafan22]

The story regarding Tampa's asking price and Vancouver's response came from Ian Macintyre, whose reputation on the Canucks board (justified or not -- personally I have no idea) is that of a guy who's close to Canucks management. From his report:

'The Tampa Bay Lightning had Miller and said it wanted first- and third-round draft picks for him. And the Canucks, rather than haggling for days or weeks, and possibly seeing the forward get traded elsewhere, agreed at the NHL draft on Saturday to the steep price."
​

Rumoured Myers price tag overshadows Canucks' pickup of Miller - Sportsnet.ca

Yikes.

 

[Hit the post]

I heard Tampa wanted 2 1st round picks based on media reports (and no I'm not digging up links) so good on Benning negotiating down to a 1st and a 3rd.

I heard the Bolts were only looking for a 2nd round pick for Miller but Benning immediately offered a nonlottery protected conditional 1st. And no, I'm not digging up links.

 

[Cogburn]

The story regarding Tampa's asking price and Vancouver's response came from Ian Macintyre, whose reputation on the Canucks board (justified or not -- personally I have no idea) is that of a guy who's close to Canucks management. From his report:

'The Tampa Bay Lightning had Miller and said it wanted first- and third-round draft picks for him. And the Canucks, rather than haggling for days or weeks, and possibly seeing the forward get traded elsewhere, agreed at the NHL draft on Saturday to the steep price."
​

Rumoured Myers price tag overshadows Canucks' pickup of Miller - Sportsnet.ca

I appreciate that you found a link to a source that is a recognizable name. That frames the conversation a lot better then "the media said". I personally think the guy is an absolute hack, but someone well known, I personally dislike as a source, posting this within a few days of the trade can at least support the narrative that Benning did not negotiate (or at the absolute least not very well/hard).

Bennings an awful GM. His resigning is proof positive we need new ownership.

Maybe a team did offer close to this, but there's no evidence. Until another GM jumps up and says they went as high as a first and two fourths, Benning just bid against himself.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yep, this is another case of Benning getting tunnel vision for a particular player and instead of negotiating just agrees to pay the price to ensure he gets his guy.