Injury Report: Valimaki Torn ACL, Requires Surgery

[GumbyCan2]

Watch Valiev/Davidson get the call up and not Kylington.

Ouch!

 

[GumbyCan2]

A 3 month recovery for a torn ACL doesn't happen unless you're using prohibited substances. 6 months is probably the least conservative estimate, realistically. Got to feel for Valimaki, this really sucks but from what he's shown so far, he appears to be very strong mentally so that should aid him during his journey back

I had one, only distially torn not off the bone totally. Full rebuild of ACL surgery resulted. I am no pro athlete but was very healthy, athletic and active. My 60% healed back to "partial duty" active work took over 6 months. No way can see a 3 or even 4 month recovery back to NHL hockey level action without premature wear & tear occurring, reducing longevity of the repair greatly. Not even for a 20 year-old high-level athlete, but...stranger things have happened! Hopefully this is an act of "a stranger things"!

 

[GumbyCan2]

Man this not what we/he needed. I think that this might not destroy his development since he was well ahead of his expectations, he just might be closer to Andersson's/Kylington's development path of making the NHL at around 22 instead of 20

I am absolutely confounded at the idea the Flames would trade for d-man when like, either we're throwing away another pick for a 7th d-man when we have signed, or throwing away a pick for someone to block Kylington. It just doesn't make sense we're looking for someone new at the moment.

Get your point there. What's wrong with trying Kylington from the get-go?
He has been tagged as a top- 5 to 10 AHL level Dman, with very serviceable showing in 20+ Flames games last year. Here's perfect opportunity for a true test, trial. No need to do a panic trade/signing for a has-been, or used-to-be, or 6/7 levelled. Not yet anyways!

 

[super6646]

Ouch!

I’m throwing stuff if this happens.

 

[Mazatt]

Get your point there. What's wrong with trying Kylington from the get-go?
He has been tagged as a top- 5 to 10 AHL level Dman, with very serviceable showing in 20+ Flames games last year. Here's perfect opportunity for a true test, trial. No need to do a panic trade/signing for a has-been, or used-to-be, or 6/7 levelled. Not yet anyways!

Exactly. We have all training camp to see if Kylington is ready, and how Yelesin/Valiev/Davidson are before panicking and getting another defender that will end up obsolete by the time Valimaki is healthy. It also brings into question why we even acquired Davidson if he's clearly not trusted as an injury replacement.

 

[Nanuuk]

I think the Flames should slot Oliver in a 3LD and let him run. He has elite level skating and is very good with the puck. Personally I see a bit of Scott Niedemayer in him and think he will be a solid NHL D. So there's no time like the present.

 

[Volica]

I think with this injury, we run:

Mark Giordano - Rasmus Andersson
Noah Hanifin - Travis Hamonic
Oliver Kylington - TJ Brodie

Helps even out the lines a bit, Ras showed in his short stint he can hang with Mark; Gio elevates everyone he plays with.

Really don't see us needing to do much outside of a PTO.

 

[JPeeper]

I think with this injury, we run:

Mark Giordano - Rasmus Andersson
Noah Hanifin - Travis Hamonic
Oliver Kylington - TJ Brodie

Helps even out the lines a bit, Ras showed in his short stint he can hang with Mark; Gio elevates everyone he plays with.

Really don't see us needing to do much outside of a PTO.

I agree with your lines. Ollie gets a vet who can skate with him, Ras can get sheltered-ish playing with a Norris d-man, but can learn a ton on the job.

Alternatively you could go

Gio-Brodie
Hanifin-Ras
Ollie-Hammer

gives Ollie a stay at home d-man so he can be free to do what he wants, keeps out top d pairing together and our 2nd pairing has potential to be the future top pairing.

 

[Kranix]

Give Kylington a bigger role for sure, maybe he flourishes like Andersson. Sign some cheap veteran maybe to be #7

 

[Nanuuk]

I'd still play TJ with Gio and Ras with the Shill. Defensively we wouldn't lose a step. I believe Ras can play on the first pair, but it wouldn't hurt him to continue as the 6th for the season. Playing TJ on the top pairing might improve his value and as the trade deadline approaches, Tre should be able to get good value back.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think with this injury, we run:

Mark Giordano - Rasmus Andersson
Noah Hanifin - Travis Hamonic
Oliver Kylington - TJ Brodie

Helps even out the lines a bit, Ras showed in his short stint he can hang with Mark; Gio elevates everyone he plays with.

Really don't see us needing to do much outside of a PTO.

I feel like I will go bald having to watch the number of times these two make 'boneheaded' turnovers/giving up the puck in a game. They are both great defencemen but they are both prone to the exact same major weakness.

 

[Mazatt]

I feel like I will go bald having to watch the number of times these two make 'boneheaded' turnovers/giving up the puck in a game. They are both great defencemen but they are both prone to the exact same major weakness.

Yup. Brodie/Hanifin are the only d-men we shouldn't pair with Kylington next season. But we also don't want him to neglect the defensive part of his game since he knows Hamonic is behind him. There's no reason not to let Kyl-Ras be a pairing to start the year and see who earns what role throughout the season.

 

[Volica]

I feel like I will go bald having to watch the number of times these two make 'boneheaded' turnovers/giving up the puck in a game. They are both great defencemen but they are both prone to the exact same major weakness.

Here's the thing.
Brodie makes those bad reads, but he's also playing 22 minutes a night kind of thing. If we could roll that back to like, let's say 18 minutes a night, I really think that those turnovers will really subside in all honesty.

Plus playing with Kylington, who is a bit of a roamer himself, I think would kind of make Brodie play similar to when he was carrying the corpse of Engelland around (except the opposite, where Engelland didn't do anything, and Oliver doing too much).

Give them some easy minutes, Brodie some reduced PK time, maybe 2PP minutes; I think you can get the most out of both of them.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Gio - Rasmus
Oliver - Hamonic
Hanifin - Brodie

Split the minutes evenly besides special teams.

 

[Mobiandi]

Rasmus doesn't skate well enough to hang with Gio on the first pairing for an extended period of time.

 

[super6646]

I think an interesting point is perhaps cutting the top pairing’s minutes down. Brodie was often played 23-25 minutes a night the last few years, but got a more respectable 22 minutes this year and played a lot better. With Giordano getting older, perhaps he can see a similar cut to help keep his durability together during the regular season?

Giordano-Brodie (21-22 minutes per game)
Hanifin-Hamonic (20-21 minutes per game)
Kylington-Andersson (17-18 minutes per game)

 

[Volica]

Rasmus doesn't skate well enough to hang with Gio on the first pairing for an extended period of time.

There are a number of top pairing guys who aren't exceptional skaters, who make use of other tools they have to compliment the big piece.
Giordano is a #1D in the truest form. We've known that as Flames fans for years. Ras would simply play his strong positional game, his tempo and his transition game to suit Giordano. He might actually be less of required babysitting than Brodie most nights.

Irregardless, I think Ras would still only be like #4 or 5 in Flames TOI per night, even if he played the top pair with Gio. Could always move back to Teej if need be too.

Last year:
Giordano (24:14) - Brodie (21:28)
Hanifin (20:46) - Hamonic (20:52)
X (See below) - Andersson (16:02)

X:
Fanta (15:50)
Valimaki (15:29)
Kylington (12:25)

If we could do something like this-ish:

Giordano (23:45) - Andersson (18:05)
Hanifin (21:05) - Hamonic (20:50)
Kylington (15:30) - Brodie (19:30)

Try to get Gio at least 30 seconds a game less, get Andersson some more minutes, give Brodie a bit easier match-ups; Hanifin makes the next step forward, Hammer does his thing.

 

[Mobiandi]

Giordano is a #1D in the truest form. We've known that as Flames fans for years. Ras would simply play his strong positional game, his tempo and his transition game to suit Giordano. He might actually be less of required babysitting than Brodie most nights.

What's missing here is that Norris Gio plays an aggressive game because he trusts Brodie to cover for him when he makes a bad pinch or loses the puck at the opposing team's blueline.

A big part of why our offense skyrocketed last season is off the back of that top pairing and while I expect Gio's points total to take a hit next season, I think it'd dip even more with Rasmus because he won't be that marauding offensive dynamo he was last year or 2015. Kinda like with Hamilton but, you know Rasmus actually gives a shit.

Bumping up Rasmus is great when you need a goal late because his shot is miles better than Brodie's but I'd rather see him on that second pairing and Hamonic drop to the third pairing

 

[Calculon]

Andersson doesn't have the skating ability nor the speed to cover for Giordano defensively the way Brodie does. As Giordano himself has said many times, he's a lot more comfortable and confident joining the rush knowing someone with Brodie's skating abilities is behind him. And the vast majority of times, it works out just fine.

If Giordano isn't as confident in Andersson's abilities, he's not going to take as many offensive chances and his point totals will subsequently suffer. Which is what happened with Hamilton.

 

[Nanuuk]

Andersson doesn't have the skating ability nor the speed to cover for Giordano defensively the way Brodie does. As Giordano himself has said many times, he's a lot more comfortable and confident joining the rush knowing someone with Brodie's skating abilities is behind him. And the vast majority of times, it works out just fine.

If Giordano isn't as confident in Andersson's abilities, he's not going to take as many offensive chances and his point totals will subsequently suffer. Which is what happened with Hamilton.

Which is why I think the Flames might try and re-sign Brodie if they can figure a way out of their current cap space dilemma.

 

[Khrox]

Give Kylington a bigger role for sure, maybe he flourishes like Andersson. Sign some cheap veteran maybe to be #7

We have some cheap veterans for the #7 (Davidson) and we have a some AHL depth as well (Valiev, maybe even Yelesin).

As for whether Andersson or Brodie on the top pair while Kylington gets 3rd pair minutes. I see it a lot like last year. Those games where Andersson was on the top pair, he still only played an extra minute or two compared to his normal, and Brodie still got time up there. I see that being continued (where if Gio gets 23 minutes, with about 18 of that at ES, I would see Andersson at maybe 12-15 ES with him, and Brodie still around 5-7 minutes ES and PK with him. Andersson still gets some PP time, and a bit of ES time with Kylington on the third pair to still give him some more ice time). I can still see Brodie having like 2 minutes more a game than Andersson on average, even if Brodie is playing like half his time on the third pair, because they aren't going to move Ras full time on the top pair, and he is still leaned on a fair bit on the PK, with some time on PP as well

 

[super6646]

Which is why I think the Flames might try and re-sign Brodie if they can figure a way out of their current cap space dilemma.

I’d rather keep Brodie over hamonic longterm if the decision has to be made. He won’t be getting significantly more money than him anyway, and his wife’s MS diagnosis would probably give him incentive to take a bit of a discount:

Hanifin-Andersson
Giordano-Brodie
Valimaki/Kylington-Kylington/Someone Else

 

[Rubi]

I like to look at the silver lining here.

This injury now gives Kylington another full year of development in the NHL as he will now likely regularly play on the 3rd line.
Previous to this injury I have to assume that he would be fighting for ice time with Valimaki.
I also assume that this injury now means that the Flames will no longer have to protect Valimaki in the 2021 draft (assuming that Valimaki misses all or most of the 2019-2020 regular season)? The Flames can now use Valimaki's spot to protect Kylington.

I have high hopes for Kylington this season. I think his development will surprise a lot of people (in a good way). I think everyone knows what the Flames have in Valimaki but Kylington is still a bit of an unknown and a work in progress. I do know however that Kylington is too good to spend another season in the AHL and only playing 30 or so games in the NHL isn't good for his development either. I look forward to seeing Kylington play 60-70 games this year... and more if he does as well as I think he will.

 

[super6646]

I like to look at the silver lining here.

This injury now gives Kylington another full year of development in the NHL as he will now likely regularly play on the 3rd line.
Previous to this injury I have to assume that he would be fighting for ice time with Valimaki.
I also assume that this injury now means that the Flames will no longer have to protect Valimaki in the 2021 draft (assuming that Valimaki misses all or most of the 2019-2020 regular season)? The Flames can now use Valimaki's spot to protect Kylington.

I have high hopes for Kylington this season. I think his development will surprise a lot of people (in a good way). I think everyone knows what the Flames have in Valimaki but Kylington is still a bit of an unknown and a work in progress. I do know however that Kylington is too good to spend another season in the AHL and only playing 30 or so games in the NHL isn't good for his development either. I look forward to seeing Kylington play 60-70 games this year... and more if he does as well as I think he will.

Valimaki would still have to be protected.

 

[DFF]

Do or die for Kylington

Is he the next Brodie or Wortherspoon?

If he can not take the regular job, he'd likely be done as a Flames