Raptors Discussion: v68| Raptors acquire PF Ibaka for Ross, lesser of TOR/LAC 2017 1st round picks

[Mitchy]

Not a fan of acquiring Wilson Chandler.

A bit OT, but he's a flat-earther.

Could you imagine

Lowry
DeRozan
Carroll
Ibaka
Cousins

That does look like terrific, minus Carroll.

Cousins is a headcase, but I really do wonder how much of that has to do with Sacramento being a complete cesspool for his entire career.

I was never a huge fan of acquiring him because of his tantrums, but it's hard to dispute his talent.

He seems to be really good friends with DeMar and a few other Raptors, so I keep wondering how he would do here. Maybe they would be able to rein him in. He always seems like a completely normal person outside of the court.

It'll be interesting to see if he still has issues in New Orleans.

Also, I don't like the usage excuse for him. Of course, his usage is going to be high in Sacramento. All of his advanced metrics check out and show what a terrific player on the court he is.

 

[zeke]

Prove to me that Rondo, Lawson, Collison as a King were solid to above average starting point guards in the NBA.

well per's far from perfect but it's a decent guesstimate:

With Sac

Thomas: 29.1mpg, 18.7per
Gay: 34.5mpg, 18.1per
Rondo: 35.2mpg, 16.9per
Evans: 34.9mpg, 16.9per
Collison: 31.5mpg, 16.1per
Lawson: 24.6mpg, 14.3per (Career: 29.3mpg, 17.2per)

ok so maybe Lawson can't be called a quality starter with the Kings so far, though he has been his whole career.

 

[zeke]

Paul George and Jimmy Butler available. Masai please do something big

Now these would be beyond awesome, but I still can't quite believe that George is actually available.

But talk about a perfect fit - George is the perfect fit.

 

[AllDay28]

rumor is Raps offered JV for Drummond

 

[one77]

rumor is Raps offered JV for Drummond

I would rather move JV+ for a guy like Butler or George

 

[hockeywiz542]

rumor is raps offered jv for drummond

detroit pistons

the pistons are staring at a major inflection point in their franchise history after having their first-round home-court aspirations fall flat. they’ve been discussing reggie jackson and andre drummond possibilities for weeks, according to a team source. aron baynes will almost certainly waive his player option for next season and rival teams know detroit won’t be able to afford him after throwing the brinks truck at kentavious caldwell-pope. Suddenly, caldwell-pope has emerged as the team’s most valued player. There aren’t many sharpshooting wings who can create off the dribble and lock down defensively.

toronto raptors

league executives expect toronto to try and make moves on the wing and in the frontcourt. As much as toronto needs to find depth behind its current frontline, the raptors are also still skeptical about jonas valanciunas. Before they acquired serge ibaka, the raptors called the pistons pitching a package centered around valanciunas for drummond, according to a league source. toronto is in ultimate win-now mode. They will certainly be interesting to monitor as the deadline approaches.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I would rather move JV+ for a guy like Butler or George

Butler doesn't make sense, we would have a gaping hole in the front court, and a back court with 3 all star players. It would make our roster imbalance even worse than before the Ibaka trade.

George makes some sense because he can play SF, but we would still have a gaping hole at C.

 

[Eyedea]

Butler doesn't make sense, we would have a gaping hole in the front court, and a back court with 3 all star players. It would make our roster imbalance even worse than before the Ibaka trade.

George makes some sense because he can play SF, but we would still have a gaping hole at C.

Butler plays SF too. You could conceivably package JV/Carroll/Prospect/Picks for Butler/Gibson or Lopez. NBA trades are so weird though that I can never truly gauge the value of players.

 

[AllDay28]

chi wants brooklyns 1 from boston for butler....

 

[Eyedea]

chi wants brooklyns 1 from boston for butler....

And I'm sure the Pacers want it for George. I know Ainge is a good executive but he can't have both.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[dredeye]

Given I don't watch much basketball so my opinion doesn't hold much in the way of value, but I caught the second last game the raps played the Nets while I was working in new york. I rarely get out to see a live game and I must say JV was very frustrating to watch live. Given he had a bad game scoring 0 points in the first half but he literally seem to give zero effort. Was always super slow getting back to play defence. Literally just always took his time getting back. I don't know if this is common or common for him but he just struck me as very lazy. I'd have no issue with them moving him as part of a package. Just the stuff you don't see when watching on tv. Maybe someone who catches more live games could chime in on if this is a regular occurrence for him

 

[hockeywiz542]

every single executive that spoke to hoopshype pointed out that the biggest misconception is that completing a trade is as simple as one general manager calling another general manager. That is sometimes the case, but teams have a lot of people working on most moves.

The general manager has help from the assistant gm, consultants, capologists, analytics experts, scouts and sometimes coaches. Ownership may also get involved, depending on the organization (and the significance of the deal). While the gm does wield a lot of power and is the figurehead for the front office, the other staffers are very important as well.

Capologists are always looking at other teams’ books and determining moves that could be made for salary reasons. For example, they’ll look around the league for expiring-contract players who may be available because their team is unlikely to pay them what they want this summer. They also monitor 10-day signings, open roster spots and teams that need to hit the salary floor so they can provide this crucial information to the gm and his staff. Sometimes, all of the specifics of a cap-inspired move will be worked out by the capologist, and the gm just makes the call and executes the trade. One gm said that his cap experts are constantly presenting him with potential moves that could free up cap space, open roster spots or add an ending contract, and he evaluates all of the different possibilities with his staff.

That staff also includes the analytics experts. The size (and clout) of the analytics team varies from organization to organization. However, in the modern nba, most front offices value the opinion of their analytics team. These individuals are there to provide insight on potential acquisitions, while also scouring the league for “low-hanging fruit†– free agents or possible trade targets who may be undervalued, but could be a good fit with their team.

Scouts are also important, as they’re constantly gathering information about players and what other teams might do. Teams rarely want to show their hand, and gms wants as much information as they can get about other teams’ thinking and motivations. It’s not uncommon for a deal that gets completed to start with a lower-level executive getting some intel and passing it up the chain of command.

so, why do things get leaked to the press?

One general manager said that he has seen younger, lower-level executives leak things to the media because they hope it can help them down the road. They want to be gms one day and they believe getting the media on their side can help them. Some executives will also trade information with the media, giving up intel in order to learn something else about a certain team or player.

However, most executives said that finding the source of the leak is usually as simple as looking at who benefits from the conversation being made public.

Every gm said that most leaks occur when a team is trying to generate a market for their own player or pick. One gm also noted that some teams will leak their own talks in hopes of souring a relationship between a player they’re pursuing and that individual’s club. The idea is to create distrust between the player and front office, which then increases the likelihood of a deal because the player is unhappy and may want out.

where there’s smoke, there’s fire

how often is the media accurate? Fans love rumors and reports, but how much of the stuff they’re consuming is correct?

executives said that it depends on the source. For example, nearly every executive brought up adrian wojnarowski of the vertical as being extremely accurate. If woj reports something, he has it from strong sources and it’s rarely wrong. Zach lowe of espn was also mentioned as being very reliable and having a good sense of what’s happening within a team he’s writing about. several executives added that you can glean a lot of information about chemistry, a player’s mindset and what a front office is looking to do from the beat writers since they’re constantly around the team.

when it comes to reports from the top individuals who typically break news (such as marc stein, sam amick, brian windhorst, david aldridge, ramona shelburne and marc spears among others), most gms said some version of, “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.†even if the report isn’t 100 percent right, there’s typically truth there. They’ve talked to someone in the know who told them the information. Maybe the conversation being referenced is outdated or the reported talks are blown out of proportion or the article is missing some context, but reports from legitimate sources are rarely completely off.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

well per's far from perfect but it's a decent guesstimate:

With Sac

Thomas: 29.1mpg, 18.7per
Gay: 34.5mpg, 18.1per
Rondo: 35.2mpg, 16.9per
Evans: 34.9mpg, 16.9per
Collison: 31.5mpg, 16.1per
Lawson: 24.6mpg, 14.3per (Career: 29.3mpg, 17.2per)

ok so maybe Lawson can't be called a quality starter with the Kings so far, though he has been his whole career.

Yeah not a fan of using PER by itself. Honestly, over Cousins 7 year career in Sacramento, if those are the 6 best teammates he's had, it's not very impressive.

We can agree to disagree but personally, with Cousins getting out of that toxic organization, I think he will shine playing with AD.

 

[zeke]

Josh Lewenberg @JLew1050
2m
Many have asked why the Raptors didnt outbid NOLA for Cousins. Impression Ive gotten for years is that they've had little/no interest in him

Josh Lewenberg @JLew1050
1m
Clearly they weren't alone. Telling that those most interested in Cousins were losing teams. Even winning teams w/ assets (BOS/TOR) were out

Josh Lewenberg @JLew1050
16s
Whether you think the risk is worth the reward with Cousins, teams have more info than you/I and obviously many of them feel it's not

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[theaub]

Give everything for Paul George

 

[Stats01]

Pleaseeee!!!!!!!!! get George. Time to go all in.

Delon Wright/Corey Joseph, Sullinger, 1st Round Pick. I don't know if that's enough....but it's a start. I'm really not interested drafting early 20's and picking a long term project. Trade some assets and go for it

 

[JS19]

PG would be quite the acquisition and would make the starting 5 ridiculous. The question will be what does Indiana want?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Lowry
Derozan
George
Ibaka
JV

That would be something special. We could definitely give the Cavs a run for their money if Ujiri pulled it off.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Lowry
Derozan
George
Ibaka
JV

That would be something special. We could definitely give the Cavs a run for their money if Ujiri pulled it off.

What would we give up and where would that leave our depth? Just not sure it's even remotely a possibility.

 

[Stats01]

What would we give up and where would that leave our depth? Just not sure it's even remotely a possibility.

.

1st round pick...maybe even have to offer 2. We have Delon Wright/Joseph, JV ( if he's on the trade block) I'm not sure what we would have to give up but a line-up of JV, Ibaka, George, DD, Lowry would be up there with the Cleveland's and Golden State's of the world. Thats a title contender right there.

Keeping our 1st rounder this year imo is not worth it. We're going for a title, drafting is important yes but with this core the time us now. We already made a move for Ibaka...ok now make another move for that big SG. I don't care how we do it but just get it done. That line-up is gross

 

[Eternal Leaf]

What would we give up and where would that leave our depth? Just not sure it's even remotely a possibility.

It would be a sizable "all-in" package. Probably include all or most of the following pieces.

Powell
Multiple 1sts
Delon
CoJo

Maybe: JV (doubt they want him with Myles Turner)

I'm sure Bird's eyes are focused on Boston right now with that Brooklyn pick in a strong draft year.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

 

[member 147413]

Did he actually say this?... oh 7 years ago hahah