Raptors Discussion: v68| Raptors acquire PF Ibaka for Ross, lesser of TOR/LAC 2017 1st round picks

[AINEC*]

The Cousins/Davis combo is going to be disgusting. Sacramento is a complete tire fire of an organization, but at least he didn't end up in Boston.

 

[Kurtz]

You'd be hard pressed to leave him out.

I decided to think about it, I get to about 7. I'll stick my neck out.

In no order:

Durant
Lebron
Curry
Davis
Leonard
Harden
Westbrook
and I'm at Cousins here.

I can't see anyone but those seven above him.

Find me a big who is averaging ~1.5 3s, 5 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks and 10+boards. Usage or not the fact that he dominates in his own end let alone the offensive end, he's being underrated by some and frankly I'd like to see their top 10s.

You can add the Greek Freak and Chris Paul when he's healthy, but otherwise you're pretty spot on - Cousins is right there at the bottom of top 10. His defensive game is underrated as well, advanced stats suggest that he's a top 10 defender (at any position) in the NBA this year.

 

[tp71]

You can add the Greek Freak and Chris Paul when he's healthy, but otherwise you're pretty spot on - Cousins is right there at the bottom of top 10. His defensive game is underrated as well, advanced stats suggest that he's a top 10 defender (at any position) in the NBA this year.

For sure, I would probably maybe pick Cousins over those two...maybe not Antetenkounmpo, but ask me on a different day and my mind could change, but he's in the 8-10 range for sure

 

[zeke]

Find me a big who is averaging ~1.5 3s, 5 assists, 1.5 steals, 1.5 blocks and 10+boards. Usage or not the fact that he dominates in his own end let alone the offensive end, he's being underrated by some and frankly I'd like to see their top 10s.

His usage is off the charts for a big man, though.

Highest big man Usage (B/R) in league history:

1.Cousins 16-17: 37.5 (55gms)
2.J.O'Neal 04-05: 36.2 (44gms)
3.Cousins 15-16: 35.4 (65gms)
4.Cousins 14-15: 34.1 (59gms)
5.Yao 06-07: 33.5 (48gms)
6.Randolph 06-07: 33.1 (68gms)
7.Shaq 97-98: 32.9 (60gms)
8.Shaq 95-96: 32.8 (54gms)
9.Cousins 13-14: 32.7 (71gms)
10.Malone 96-97: 32.6 (82gms)

And his stat line isn't all that different from what J.O'Neal, Yao, Randolph did with that usage.

He's probably a similar caliber player as an earlier Sacramento King......Chris Weber.


And even if he's better than Val, it's not like Casey would ever give a center that kind of usage. (for comparison Val's usage is almost exactly 1/2 boogie's).

 

[Budsfan]

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

His usage is off the charts for a big man, though.

Highest big man Usage (B/R) in league history:

1.Cousins 16-17: 37.5 (55gms)
2.J.O'Neal 04-05: 36.2 (44gms)
3.Cousins 15-16: 35.4 (65gms)
4.Cousins 14-15: 34.1 (59gms)
5.Yao 06-07: 33.5 (48gms)
6.Randolph 06-07: 33.1 (68gms)
7.Shaq 97-98: 32.9 (60gms)
8.Shaq 95-96: 32.8 (54gms)
9.Cousins 13-14: 32.7 (71gms)
10.Malone 96-97: 32.6 (82gms)

And his stat line isn't all that different from what J.O'Neal, Yao, Randolph did with that usage.

He's probably a similar caliber player as an earlier Sacramento King......Chris Weber.


And even if he's better than Val, it's not like Casey would ever give a center that kind of usage. (for comparison Val's usage is almost exactly 1/2 boogie's).

Having a high usage is not necessarily a bad thing. What's he supposed to do on a team with no supporting cast. Just stand there? A healthy Yao is one of the best big men of all-time so there's no argument there.

Jermaine O'Neal
04-05 TS%: 52%
WS/48: .118
PER: 22.9
Net On/Off: - 0.6

Zach Randolph
06-07 TS%: 53.7%
WS/48: .112
PER: 22.8
Net On/Off: +3.0

DeMarcus Cousins
16-17 TS%: 56.2%
WS/48: .163
PER: 26.6
Net On/Off: +4.6

Cousins is on another level from Z-Bo and JO and they really aren't comparable.

If Cousins got traded here, nobody is asking him to put up the same usage as he did in Sacramento. He's here to improve the team and he would do so significantly. I have no idea why you compared Cousins to JV as the reason why JV doesn't get as much playing time is the same reason why Cousins would get his usual playing time.

 

[hockeywiz542]

toronto and washington are both eager to add another rotation player, per several league sources. the raps roster is a little heavy on bigs after the ibaka deal, and they still have trade chips -- all their own picks, and some interesting young guys. They have the maximum 15 players under contract, but if necessary, they could waive jared sullinger to clear a roster spot.

any deal involving an expensive drakes veteran will probably wait until the summer, when the team faces a severe luxury tax crunch.

 

[zeke]

Having a high usage is not necessarily a bad thing.

Of course not. But when your team always sucks with your high usage, it definitely might be.

What's he supposed to do on a team with no supporting cast. Just stand there?

His supporting cast has usually been underrated. If he truly is an elite player, he's had good enough support players to at least be a decent team, if not a contender.

Rondo, Gay, Collision, Lawson, Thomas, Evans.....these were all solid starters he had around him and his team always sucked.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Of course not. But when your team always sucks with your high usage, it definitely might be.



His supporting cast has usually been underrated. If he truly is an elite player, he's had good enough support players to at least be a decent team, if not a contender.

Rondo, Gay, Collision, Lawson, Thomas, Evans.....these were all solid starters he had around him and his team always sucked.

His supporting cast is definitely not underrated. In fact it's one of the worst.

Rajon Rondo? Really? He had a temper tandrum who clashed with Rick Carlisle in Dallas and nobody wanted after that. He has a career sub .500 TS% and hasn't made any impact since the big 3 left. There's a reason he could only get a 1 year contract after leaving Dallas for the Kings

Darren Collison? The guy being charged with domestic violence. Besides that, he's a good backup point guard but nowhere near a quality starting point guard.

Ty Lawson? The player with multiple DUIs? See Sacramento loves bringing in these guys to help Cousins who are already broken as players

Rudy Gay? The guy who left Memphis and then Memphis became instantly better. The guy who left Toronto and then Toronto became instantly better

Isaiah Thomas? I'll give you him as he was a decent player with the Kings although his defense was very bad back then (hindering him from being a starting PG). Then for some reason, they decided to sign and trade him to the Suns for a no name player.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

This is Sacramento's draft record since they got Cousins

2011: Jimmer Fredette, Tyler Honeycutt, Isaiah Thomas
2012: Thomas Robinson, Orlando Johnson
2013: Ben McLemore, Ray McCallum
2014: Nik Stauskas
2015: Willie Cauley Stein
2016: Georgios Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson

So really, can anyone say Sacramento's surrounded Cousins with talent? It's not like this team's 1st round pick is always in the 20s. We can also delve into trades this team has made as well

 

[Neil Hamburger]

I don't understand why the Sacramento GM told people he had received a better offer two days prior to making this deal.

It just makes him look even more incompetent.

 

[tp71]

I don't understand why the Sacramento GM told people he had received a better offer two days prior to making this deal.

It just makes him look even more incompetent.

I would have to imagine the owner had something to do with it. He's a meddler. Maybe this was a move by Vlade to get him to back off.

 

[zeke]

His supporting cast is definitely not underrated. In fact it's one of the worst.

Rajon Rondo? Really? He had a temper tandrum who clashed with Rick Carlisle in Dallas and nobody wanted after that. He has a career sub .500 TS% and hasn't made any impact since the big 3 left. There's a reason he could only get a 1 year contract after leaving Dallas for the Kings

Darren Collison? The guy being charged with domestic violence. Besides that, he's a good backup point guard but nowhere near a quality starting point guard.

Ty Lawson? The player with multiple DUIs? See Sacramento loves bringing in these guys to help Cousins who are already broken as players

Rudy Gay? The guy who left Memphis and then Memphis became instantly better. The guy who left Toronto and then Toronto became instantly better

Isaiah Thomas? I'll give you him as he was a decent player with the Kings although his defense was very bad back then (hindering him from being a starting PG). Then for some reason, they decided to sign and trade him to the Suns for a no name player.

If you're going to say those guys are bad because of off court issues, then how can you say Cousins is good regardless of his?

Based on actual play, those were all solid to above average starting NBAers that he got to play with. And the team always sucked. Not just bad - they sucked.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

If you're going to say those guys are bad because of off court issues, then how can you say Cousins is good regardless of his?

Based on actual play, those were all solid to above average starting NBAers that he got to play with. And the team always sucked. Not just bad - they sucked.

Prove to me that Rondo, Lawson, Collison as a King were solid to above average starting point guards in the NBA. Tell me why once Rudy Gay left Memphis, the team got way better. Why once Rudy Gay left Toronto, the team got way better.

When did Cousins did get charged for multiple DUIs and had to go to rehab, when did Cousins get suspended 8 games for pleading guilty to domestic battery charges. Cousins is one of the best charitable players in the NBA and is extremely well liked by fans in Sacramento.

 

[one77]

Wtf, we were offering JV+ for Drummond? OMG I hope this happens

Also, Butler is available??? Wow. Would you guys think Poeltl+Siakim+2 1sts is enough or not even close?

 

[Eyedea]

It's the same reason why Jrue Holiday, Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans, Ryan Anderson, and Omer Asik have mustered up one playoff appearance with Anthony Davis. The names are there, but they just aren't effective, especially defensively.

 

[tp71]

Wtf, we were offering JV+ for Drummond? OMG I hope this happens

Also, Butler is available??? Wow. Would you guys think Poeltl+Siakim+2 1sts is enough or not even close?

Probably not even close seeing as Boston is reportedly interested. They hold the trump card Nets picks.

They probably add a PJ Tucker type at the wing.

 

[phillipmike]

Lowe/Stein: Raptors pitched JV & 1st Rd pick for Cousins

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18734507

Starts around the 6:50 mark... Kings concerned with losing this year to keep their pick which is why they did not look for talent that could help them immediately.

Heavy rumor not sure if it is true or if we would have done it or not, but it is out there according to Stein and Lowe

 

[one77]

Probably not even close seeing as Boston is reportedly interested. They hold the trump card Nets picks.

They probably add a PJ Tucker type at the wing.

Damn, that nets pick is a goldmine

 

[one77]

Paul George and Jimmy Butler available. Masai please do something big

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Lowe/Stein: Raptors pitched JV & 1st Rd pick for Cousins

Could you imagine

Lowry
DeRozan
Carroll
Ibaka
Cousins

 

[tp71]

Could you imagine

Lowry
DeRozan
Carroll
Ibaka
Cousins

I'm just happy they at least tried

 

[Reilly19]

Would like to see Wilson Chandler and Jameer Nelson for CoryJo and Damarre Carroll

 

[Jozay]

Paul George and Jimmy Butler available. Masai please do something big

No way we have enough to pull that off while keeping Lowry and DD.

Not that I would opposed to trading DD + for either of those guys.

 

[phillipmike]

Would have been deadly... Moved Carroll in the off-season and you would have had a full season of Cousins, Ibaka, Lowry and DeRozan. Stars or at least starter FAs would have taken 1 year discounts to play with that team. Small forwards sell their soul trying to get that starting spot.