UFA defencemen- Is one of them the answer?

[The CyNick]

The answer is easy: Petro.

You make room for players like that. Whether it’s moving expendable parts like Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, and/or Dermott, you try to make room for him. He ticks all the boxes for a team dying for that right-side 1st paring defensemen.

Knowing Dubas, he’ll be gunning for him, especially if the Leafs are bounced early.

Putting aside the 'why would you leave a team you won a Cup with' argument, the math is almost impossible unless you trade Nylander or Marner.

Let's assume he wants $10M per, you likely have to get rid of Kerfoot, Kap, AJ, and Hyman. Plus you can't keep Dermott or Mikhylev.

Now you're right against the Cap, you've gutted the forward group, and you're going to have Reilly looking for $10M and Andersen looking for $8M with little prospect of an increased cap.

The last thing Dubas needs is another huge contract. I don't really get the long term strategy is, but I don't think a stud FA dman is in the cards.

 

[Advanced stats]

The answer is easy: Petro.

You make room for players like that. Whether it’s moving expendable parts like Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, and/or Dermott, you try to make room for him. He ticks all the boxes for a team dying for that right-side 1st paring defensemen.

Knowing Dubas, he’ll be gunning for him, especially if the Leafs are bounced early.

That was a feasible option 8 months ago when the cap was talked about going up to 84million.
Now it's an absolute no chance scenario. Do the math on what it takes to sign Pietro at even 8 million. It's impossible.



On the good side, it seems that free agency will be less busy this year.
This means more guys delaying signing for some time and thus signing cheaper. If we can sign someone to play the right side on a short term/small money deal, we'll be fine.

 

[Fogelhund]

When I say big ticket, I mean multiple of AJ and KK price level.

As it is, there's not enough money to give RFAs raises and bring them back let alone bring in new guys.

Plus at $4M, you're not getting anyone who will make a huge impact. It's either gotta be someone really cheap who punches above their weight, or a young guy who has been stuck behind a bunch of guys

A guy like Hainsey made a big impact on Rielly. You bring in one guy capable of 20-24 minutes beside Rielly, and it pushes everyone down. They don't need to be a star, or a big name, just a DeMelo, Tanev, Weegar, Manson type guy... At $4 mil, I think they bring a lot of value, and it's a big need... even better if they bring physicality. Maybe there are guys like this, whose name we haven't mentioned, like you say, a guy stuck behind other guys. I think Phillipe Myers would be a great addition, who will grown into that in a few years.

 

[The CyNick]

A guy like Hainsey made a big impact on Rielly. You bring in one guy capable of 20-24 minutes beside Rielly, and it pushes everyone down. They don't need to be a star, or a big name, just a DeMelo, Tanev, Weegar, Manson type guy... At $4 mil, I think they bring a lot of value, and it's a big need... even better if they bring physicality. Maybe there are guys like this, whose name we haven't mentioned, like you say, a guy stuck behind other guys. I think Phillipe Myers would be a great addition, who will grown into that in a few years.

I don't disagree it's possible to find those guys, I just don't see a Hainsey type on that list.

Best case would be someone fighting to stay in the league, maybe who had bad luck with injuries or something. I think we're better off trying to find help via trade. Problem is we've seen dubious evaluation of D with the Barrie trade. And then guys like KK and AJ, who could have been trade chips a year ago have regressed. So not sure there's much value there now. Dubas has put us in a really bad spot to improve the team.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Gudas has taken a massive leap forward the last couple years. Hes not a tough guy and depth player anymore.

Even offensively hes turned into a pretty good even strength offense driver. He's quite easily the best dman on the list for me based on his play over the last 2 seasons.

Agreed always been a massive Gudas fan and if reasonably priced (probably not) then I'm all for it

 

[Menzinger]

Except who is to say they would accept being cheap 1 year deal guys? If they are as good as everyone hopes they will be, there will be teams that will give them proper contracts...

Tanev especially has no incentive because he knows that if he gets hurt again, his contract will only get a lot worse. He is going to take any long term deal for good money he can get, and there will be teams desperate enough to give it to him. The Leafs are not one of those teams.

Schultz, Green, maybe Vatanen, Rutta and Shattenkirk are the guys on that list that may receive cheaper prove-it deals because all of them did not exactly have stellar seasons (although even Shattenkirk may receive some kind of solid offer). The thing is, none of them really improve our defense. They are all more offensive guys with questionable or downright awful defending (except Vatanen, but even he has been 'meh' or worse since his last year in Anaheim) ability. A guy like Rutta may be a decent depth option who can challenge for a #6 job, but that is not exactly what the Leafs are lacking.

The best bang-for-buck you may get is probably a guy like Dylan DeMelo, Cody Ceci or Justin Braun, but all of them are #4's at best and, as it was with Ceci, the chances of them being legit top pairing defensemen at this point are slim... Or at least no better than Lehtonen or Dermott.

Thing as though i think there wil . e a lot of penny pinching. Wealthy teams with higher cap levels wont want to lock in money and budget teams may be looking to save money where they can.

A guy like Tanev may want a certain type of contract but no guarantee there will be a buyer for him at thag level

 

[Menzinger]

They really just need 1-2 guys to eat up minutes on the right. They dont need to be drivers of play, just reliable in their own zone.

If we get lucky one of Dermott or Sandin can potentially switch sides and play on the right (both guys briefly did with the Marlies)

 

[080]

Agreed always been a massive Gudas fan and if reasonably priced (probably not) then I'm all for it

I also like Gudas but I don't know if he's the answer alongside Rielly. Can he handle 20+ minutes every night? Because he's gonna be killing penalties as well as playing ES minutes with Rielly.

 

[deletethis]

Gudas is a poor man's Polak. Yes, I think he's that bad.

Mike Green might work as a Spezza-like acquisition.

 

[deletethis]

Pretty much. Petro's the only one worth spending that precious cap space on.

I suppose there's other defensemen potentially obtainable through trade worth the sacrifice but of the UFAs only Pietrangelo is worth an impact to the forward group. Otherwise this RHD (more specifically right side D) signed as a free agent needs to be a bargain signing.

 

[Morbo]

I suppose there's other defensemen potentially obtainable through trade worth the sacrifice but of the UFAs only Pietrangelo is worth an impact to the forward group. Otherwise this RHD (more specifically right side D) signed as a free agent needs to be a bargain signing.

Not sure exactly why Petro is leaving St. Louis, but if family has anything to do with it we may have another Tavares-like situation, although due to recent events obviously the contract will be more modest.

 

[kb]

Am I the only one who looks at the shitshow with Covid down in the States, and think that a lot of players may now be looking at taking a one year cheap deal with a Canadian team just to get away from that?

Could be an ace up the sleeve.

 

[Community]

Only approach a UFA dman if you think he can play well beside Rielly. So if you think Brodie has more in thr tank, Tanev can stay healthy and bounce back, etc.

Rielly - XXX
Muzzin - Holl/Dermott
Dermott/Lehtonen - Liljegren/Holl
Sandin/Liljegren

We have 7 quality dmen (as long as we can trust the very positive Lehtonen reviews as I havemt watched him play). We don't need another average bottom 4 guy.

Better option might be to trade AJ + dman (Dermott? Holl? for an upgrade on a good contract) as most people think Robertson will take his spot.

 

[kevsh]

Could we possibly have Gudas & Clifford on the same Leafs team?

Brian Burke would certainly approve.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Am I the only one who looks at the shitshow with Covid down in the States, and think that a lot of players may now be looking at taking a one year cheap deal with a Canadian team just to get away from that?

Could be an ace up the sleeve.

Only if it is still a shitshow in November when they are negotiating new deals.

You are likely going to see a lot of guys just stay put if they can't find better deals elsewhere though.

 

[meefer]

What one desires is based on what one believes the Leafs need. Some see a need for a #1, a #2, at worst a solid 3/4 D. As I see Morgan as a solid #1, and Muzz as a solid #2, I'll be satisfied with a competent 3/4 right hand D, who can play with MR. This brings into play: Tanev, Brodie, Gudas, Demelo and Buff (should he wish to play again). Non of whom I'd pay more than 3M/. However, I'm guessing that next year's D will be more flexible with respect to personnel than we've seen before, unless it's one of Brodie, Gudas or Demelo. Buff and Tanev would play less big minute games, while Lilgegren was massaged into the line up. I think I'd still gun for Manson. He could compliment Mo quite nicely and is capable of the minutes. Tanev is fragile, his only downside from my point of view, Buff, an unknown. Demelo...ok.
Ranked: Manson/Demelo/Tanev/Buff.
Longshot and owned: Dermott/Lehtonen
Expectation: Demelo

 

[Duke Silver]

Here's a quick list of upcoming UFA defencemen that might fit the Leafs' needs. I only listed guys that are either right handed, or do play the right side.

Check all of the guys that you think would be a decent solution on the right side. Players you think can:

Play top 4 on the right
fit the cap situation
play for 3+ years

In your reply, please write in what kind of contract you think might reasonably be offered and accepted for the guys you picked.

If I added someone that can't play right, or if I missed someone worth considering, please say so. I didn't add Pietrangelo, because he is likely way out of our price range. Nor did I include Barrie or Ceci, as they would be re-signing, and we mostly know what they can or can't do.

* This is, of course, assuming some cap space can be made by moving some of our 3rd line guys (Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen). Otherwise, we can't add any player at all. You can vote and post according to what cap space you think we may have.

** options are ordered based on current cap-hit

We're going to have to move 2 of our 3rd line guys just to be able to fit Dermott and Mikheyev in. There's no room.

 

[Buds17]

Not sure exactly why Petro is leaving St. Louis, but if family has anything to do with it we may have another Tavares-like situation, although due to recent events obviously the contract will be more modest.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pietrangelo is leaving STL as something seems like it would have to give with what they have at RD. Doesn't appear that Toronto would be an easy possibility. Until that door closes though...

 

[TMLegend]

Leafs defense will live and die over the next few years on how Sandin and Liljegren develop, and perhaps Dermott as well. They need someone to punch above their weight for a couple of seasons to have any shot of being a cup contender. The cap space just isn't there to improve it in free agency.

 

[qqaz]

We're going to have to move 2 of our 3rd line guys just to be able to fit Dermott and Mikheyev in. There's no room.

I don't think Mikheyev will demand a ton. He played half a season. And the team was super loyal to the guy. He shouldn't ask much more than the same 1 year deal again.

And Dermot is far from getting a huge payday. He might be liquidated for picks, just because of our LHD depth.

 

[Duke Silver]

I don't think Mikheyev will demand a ton. He played half a season. And the team was super loyal to the guy. He shouldn't ask much more than the same 1 year deal again.

And Dermot is far from getting a huge payday. He might be liquidated for picks, just because of our LHD depth.

We have roughly $1M left to spend on them combined. A lot of room needs to be cleared. At least $4M.

Our D is going to be comprised of 3-4 players making less than $1M next year, just so we can get by.

 

[Kiwi]

We have roughly $1M left to spend on them combined. A lot of room needs to be cleared. At least $4M.

Our D is going to be comprised of 3-4 players making less than $1M next year, just so we can get by.

No, you get rid of one of those 3M 3rd liners and Mikhelyev and Dermott can be resigned

Dermott should get **** all on a bridge and if Mikhelyev wants over 2.5M AAV we should trade him

 

[Duke Silver]

No, you get rid of one of those 3M 3rd liners and Mikhelyev and Dermott can be resigned

Dermott should get **** all on a bridge and if Mikhelyev wants over 2.5M AAV we should trade him

Justin Holl just got $2M a year for 3 years.

 

[deletethis]

Justin Holl just got $2M a year for 3 years.

He was going to be a UFA. There's that leverage plus being a RHD and averaging over 18 minutes a night. The truth is that Holl's contract was a hometown discount.

 

[CincoHolio]

Am I the only one who looks at the shitshow with Covid down in the States, and think that a lot of players may now be looking at taking a one year cheap deal with a Canadian team just to get away from that?

Could be an ace up the sleeve.

I have no doubt Bergevin is licking his chops right about now.