UFA defencemen- Is one of them the answer?

Do you think any of these UFA defenceman may be the answer to our RHD problem? (read OP for more)


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    154

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,175
23,497
IMO, our problem is a defensive partner for Rielly. I like some of those names, and even a guy like Gudas would be a nice addition on the second or third pairing... but he isn't an answer to being a partner for Mo. For these reasons, I picked Tanev, Hamonic and DeMelo.
 
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Coachcorner

Senor Martinez
Sep 28, 2017
6,285
4,989
I voted DeMelo as I think he's the easiest to fit in on our cap and the term (within reason) doesn't concern me.
Yeah like I'm bout that sire. :clap: Him plays real good hockey and is solid, can fight a bit too. We need fire fighters with hoses. Mayne we bout our hardness. :clap:

Also gudas doesn't play games with covid. He might retire. He bout that. Yeah, he bout that. We ain't got cap size enough, so we bout to go to surgery. Cause we on now sire. Gittin our players and hay makers like tyson was and still is btw. He is making a comeback too, lets see against who. That dirt there even rhymes.
 
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Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
Dillon would be awesome physical, righty, prime years, plays tough minutes.
 
Last edited:

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
31,072
13,864
Earth
May have to find more of a bargain bin type. The cap just isnt going to work for more expensive free agents. Wouldn't mind getting Gudas but he'll get overpaid. Demelo and Tanev may be our best bets. Tanev would be my main target though. Local guy, experienced, shot blocker. Would look good beside Rielly and may take a short-term deal to bring his value back up.
 
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deletethis

Registered User
Mar 17, 2015
7,910
2,486
Toronto
Don't worry guys. We've got LHD who'll play the right side in the top 4. One's a 3rd pairing NHL defender. The other played the right side in Finland but not in the KHL. What could go wrong? Why would anything bad happen in 2020?
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
18,092
8,216
The cap won’t be an issue until rielly is up in 2 years.

rielly sandin and lily will all be up. Burning this year of Sandin hurt the leafs badly In this respect.

Freddie isn’t getting a raise now. We have a million and 10 wingers.

rielly in 3 is the big one.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
Ahhh we can’t afford any good defenders without trading so I’m just going to say not possible presently so why think about it. The kids are in need of extended responsibility anyways
 

hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
20,266
13,285
Pickering, Ontario
Defense is fine as is.
No way. Defense is our one glaring weakness. We had a disapointing season in terms of goals for but some of that can be credited to Hutchinson being worse than sparks and Andersen having a career worse season as a leaf. Still we are gonna be losing Barrie and need to replace him. We were around 16th I think in terms of expected goals for and high danger shots allowed this season. We cant simply rely on sandin and lilijgren being elite next season. Dermott can slot up and down the lineup but we need one defensively calm RHD who is good at denying the zone, making a first pass and stopping other teams cycles. We dont need an elite defender but need someone who can play 20+minutes and fit next to either rielly or muzzin.

Rielly-Edmunson/Hamonic/Gudas/Tanev
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin/Lethonen/Holl

Is as strong defensive core as we can afford to open with and then have lilijgren enter the lineup if Lehtonen or sandin or holl struggles on the bottom pairing.
 
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hamzarocks

Registered User
Jul 22, 2012
20,266
13,285
Pickering, Ontario
The cap won’t be an issue until rielly is up in 2 years.

rielly sandin and lily will all be up. Burning this year of Sandin hurt the leafs badly In this respect.

Freddie isn’t getting a raise now. We have a million and 10 wingers.

rielly in 3 is the big one.
Sandin doesn't really have any leeway to ask for big money. He has great potential but this season was similar to nylanders in 2016 a taste at the big league. Nylander had great production in his first two years with 61 points each. Sandin will be playing third pairing next year atleast and potentially top 4 in a year. Unlikely he cracks 30 points in either season. He will be getting a bridge deal most likely unless he has a crazy season where he takes over the top LHD spot from Rielly. Threats of offersheets may exist but it's very unlikely someone would sign sandin to a offersheet (if he signed it) that was out of the leafs range to match.
 

67Leafs67

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
773
630
The problem is that the UFA market, while not necessitating the loss of another asset, usually drives up players' cap-hits, and with Toronto's precarious cap position, especially in lieu of the pandemic, an actually helpful UFA might just be out of our price range with the competition of thirty other potential teams.

Of the d-men listed...not many pique my interest, unless they can be acquired for a steal of a contract.

- Justin Schultz will probably be too expensive, and despite being a RHD, is a relatively one-dimensional offensive defenseman, who won't make a particularly complimentary partner for either Muzzin or Rielly.
- Mike Green is a replacement level defenseman at this point who is a different player than he was in his Washington days - he actively kills offense at this point in his career.
- Sami Vatanen is another player with a decent past-rep, who at this point is a bottom pairing defenseman with mediocre defensive results.
- TJ Brodie is a great player, especially dominant in zone exits, but he'll likely be out of Toronto's price range (barring some major roster moves), is yet another LHD (although he has played quite a bit of RD in his career I believe), and is 30 years old and likely looking for some term. He's the first name on this list that I think would actually be beneficial for Toronto to add if possible though.
- Chris Tanev has been a hypothetical good partner for Rielly for a long time, but his defensive game has been on the decline since 2017-18, and he hasn't played more than 70 games any season in his career, and is now 30 years old.
- Travis Hamonic has a reputation as a defensive d-man for some reason (I guess some mix of pedigree and physical attributes), but his defensive results are poor to say the least. His cap-hit far exceeds his actual value, somebody to avoid in my opinion.
- Justin Braun is another player I would avoid...he's a good defensive player, but poor enough offensively to mostly cancel that out. I mean, maybe for the right price, on a short contract he could be a good partner for somebody like Rielly (who is much the opposite), but at 33 and his likely cost, I would avoid him.
- Radko Gudas is somebody a lot of Leafs' fans will salivate over for his physicality, but I think that's a somewhat inconsequential attribute if it isn't in a package with other skills. Once again though, he's a formerly solid defensive player who has slowly declined as he hits 30 to become a bit of a weak link in Washington, despite his flashy style.
- Kevin Shattenkirk would've been a great pickup last off-season, but now that he got his chance to prove he still has it with Tampa Bay, will he be cheap? Doubtful. While he's still a good player, once again, he's more suited to a free-wheeling second pairing role with a stable partner, meaning (like Barrie this year), he's a bit of a redundant player with Rielly in the lineup.
- Jan Rutta is a player I could kind of get behind. I doubt he'd be too expensive, and his style would probably compliment Rielly's well...he's used to playing with Hedman, who is a much more well rounded player, but taking on secondary competition alongside Rielly should still probably work out well. A 29 year old RHD would be a solid addition at the right price.
- Dylan DeMelo could be another great addition for the right price. I like that he's a somewhat versatile player, and I think his game would compliment Rielly's pretty well, especially since he's great at defending the blue-line, one of Rielly's biggest struggles. He's not a standout defensively, but overall very solid, and is a good offensive play-driver. He also kills penalties, which Toronto needs. I wish we would've added him at the deadline, especially with the price being a 3rd round pick....but considering how the season ended, it might be a good thing we didn't pay for a rental.
 

Griffin76

Registered User
May 17, 2014
5,045
6,055
Nova Scotia
From that list I would like to see Vatanen and Gudas. Capwise it's probably not possible. Still not sold on Holl. Hopefully Liljegren can play regularly on the bottom pair. So Gudas alone may be realistic.

Rielly Gudas
Muzzin Holl
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin

Even rotate the following till any 2 guys take the spots.

Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Liljegren
Sandin Dermott
 

Cappuccino

Registered User
Aug 18, 2017
1,387
421
the Netherlands
- Dylan DeMelo could be another great addition for the right price. I like that he's a somewhat versatile player, and I think his game would compliment Rielly's pretty well, especially since he's great at defending the blue-line, one of Rielly's biggest struggles. He's not a standout defensively, but overall very solid, and is a good offensive play-driver. He also kills penalties, which Toronto needs. I wish we would've added him at the deadline, especially with the price being a 3rd round pick....but considering how the season ended, it might be a good thing we didn't pay for a rental.

It would make it a lot easier to (re)sign him though. If the Jets offer him a decent contract, he might be gone. I was never a big Demelo fan, but he might be one of the more affordable options. I still hope for a Manson trade, but if that won't happen, I don't see that many better fits than Demelo. Especially if Dubas gets another (at least decent) RD.
 
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The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
There's no money to spend unless some big ticket guys are out.

Dermott and Mikhyev need new deals.
Dubas will be looking in the league minimum pile for help in all areas of the team.
 

LeafsOHLRangers98

Registered User
Jun 13, 2017
6,573
6,718
From that list I would like to see Vatanen and Gudas. Capwise it's probably not possible. Still not sold on Holl. Hopefully Liljegren can play regularly on the bottom pair. So Gudas alone may be realistic.

Rielly Gudas
Muzzin Holl
Dermott Liljegren
Sandin

Even rotate the following till any 2 guys take the spots.

Dermott Liljegren
Sandin Liljegren
Sandin Dermott
Gudas on the top pair would be horrific.

He was fine playing 16 minutes a night in Washington but we have enough of those bottom pair guys and we really need to give Liljegren a decent shot here eventually.

Let's just see what we have in the kids + Lehtonen until the deadline and then upgrade if we need too. The defense will be good enough to still have us in the top 10 in the league, especially if we get better goaltending than we did last year.
 

Fogelhund

Registered User
Sep 15, 2007
21,175
23,497
There's no money to spend unless some big ticket guys are out.

Dermott and Mikhyev need new deals.
Dubas will be looking in the league minimum pile for help in all areas of the team.

It's easy enough to sign someone at $4 mil, if you move some bodies out... let's put it this way, if signing a good RHD is a priority, it can be done... without moving out the big ticket guys.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
No way. Defense is our one glaring weakness. We had a disapointing season in terms of goals for but some of that can be credited to Hutchinson being worse than sparks and Andersen having a career worse season as a leaf. Still we are gonna be losing Barrie and need to replace him. We were around 16th I think in terms of expected goals for and high danger shots allowed this season. We cant simply rely on sandin and lilijgren being elite next season. Dermott can slot up and down the lineup but we need one defensively calm RHD who is good at denying the zone, making a first pass and stopping other teams cycles. We dont need an elite defender but need someone who can play 20+minutes and fit next to either rielly or muzzin.

Rielly-Edmunson/Hamonic/Gudas/Tanev
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin/Lethonen/Holl

Is as strong defensive core as we can afford to open with and then have lilijgren enter the lineup if Lehtonen or sandin or holl struggles on the bottom pairing.

We can't afford those guys, and for the amount of output they are going to give us, they are not going to be worth their cost either... Especially Edmundson and Gudas. Why are we going to pay possibly 3.5-4 mill for guys who do nothing except maybe give us a decent PKer and some physicality on the back end as #4's at the very best? Outside of physicality, they are probably going to perform about as well as Ceci, which is fine, but not exactly a large enough upgrade on our current guys to warrant the cost.

Hamonic and Tanev are upgrades, depending on which version you are getting. Tanev has had a much better year, but between the injuries and his often uninspiring play the past few years, his next contract can be a disaster. Hamonic has had his fair share of injuries and inconsistent play himself, and both are going to be in their 30's to start next year, so the injuries could really start to catch up to them. All of those big contract guys come big risks, and we are not exactly in the position where we can afford to have more contracts like that. We are already going to have to dump 1 or 2 well-priced top 9 forwards like Johnsson, Kapanen, and Kerfoot over the next few years just to afford to maintain the quality we currently have.

So unless you are anticipating them taking a far below market value deal for a reasonable term, which I doubt happens, it is not worth it. If we want someone, we should look at the bargain bin (Kulikov, Sekera, Rutta, TVR, Pysyk, Soucy, Bogosian, Byfuglien, maybe Hutton if he does not have huge demand, etc.) which can range between solid bottom pairing guys who can possibly step up into a top 4 role to quality depth guys who can seriously challenge Sandin, Liljegren, Rosen, Marincin and Lehtonen. We should only look at trading more than one of Johnsson, Kapanen or Kerfoot this year for the right price and if we are confident in both our current internal options (Barabanov, Korshkov, Engvall, Gauthier, Spezza, Bracco, Brooks, etc.) and forward bargain bin options (Ennis, Galchenyuk, Pitlik, Brassard, Jarnkrok, etc.) which may be able to somewhat replace them for a fraction of the cost.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
35,591
16,773
Gudas on the top pair would be horrific.

He was fine playing 16 minutes a night in Washington but we have enough of those bottom pair guys and we really need to give Liljegren a decent shot here eventually.

Let's just see what we have in the kids + Lehtonen until the deadline and then upgrade if we need too. The defense will be good enough to still have us in the top 10 in the league, especially if we get better goaltending than we did last year.

Honestly, I would be fine with just getting a guy like Rutta, Van Riemsdyk or Soucy for cheap and call it a day. Soucy even brings a big, physical element that people seem to love on the back end. All three can competently plug in on our bottom pairing next year, or be quality depth for the Marlies.

Even giving Pysyk a shot for cheap would be fine. Having to pay assets and 2.7 mill for a guy is one thing, but signing him for no assets on a cheap prove it deal where it is a win even if he plays his normal standards of a solid, or even great, bottom pairing defenseman is a major win. There will probably be a ton of guys like him who would love to have the opportunity, especially since they could easily end up in a top 4 role on a good team if they play very well, and that could lead to a big pay day for them next year.
 

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