UFA defencemen- Is one of them the answer?

[Papi 4 Hart]

Whoever you can bring in on discount contracts due to cap crunch and covid-19 financial issues. Hopefully, some teams are hurting and cant give out over value contracts for UFA and we see a decrease in the UFA market. This might be our only saving grace.

That being said I would target Radko Gudas and Chris Tanev as cheap 1 year deal guys.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Whoever you can bring in on discount contracts due to cap crunch and covid-19 financial issues. Hopefully, some teams are hurting and cant give out over value contracts for UFA and we see a decrease in the UFA market. This might be our only saving grace.

That being said I would target Radko Gudas and Chris Tanev as cheap 1 year deal guys.

Except who is to say they would accept being cheap 1 year deal guys? If they are as good as everyone hopes they will be, there will be teams that will give them proper contracts...

Tanev especially has no incentive because he knows that if he gets hurt again, his contract will only get a lot worse. He is going to take any long term deal for good money he can get, and there will be teams desperate enough to give it to him. The Leafs are not one of those teams.

Schultz, Green, maybe Vatanen, Rutta and Shattenkirk are the guys on that list that may receive cheaper prove-it deals because all of them did not exactly have stellar seasons (although even Shattenkirk may receive some kind of solid offer). The thing is, none of them really improve our defense. They are all more offensive guys with questionable or downright awful defending (except Vatanen, but even he has been 'meh' or worse since his last year in Anaheim) ability. A guy like Rutta may be a decent depth option who can challenge for a #6 job, but that is not exactly what the Leafs are lacking.

The best bang-for-buck you may get is probably a guy like Dylan DeMelo, Cody Ceci or Justin Braun, but all of them are #4's at best and, as it was with Ceci, the chances of them being legit top pairing defensemen at this point are slim... Or at least no better than Lehtonen or Dermott.

 

[grapes55]

Gudas was getting scratched in Washington for the last little while so I'm not too interested in him. Honestly most of the guys here aren't great. If we could somehow land them cheaply on short terms maybe Tanev, Vatanen, Rutta would be ok? Demelo isn't bad but I think Winnipeg re-signs him

 

[Papi 4 Hart]

Gudas was getting scratched in Washington for the last little while so I'm not too interested in him. Honestly most of the guys here aren't great. If we could somehow land them cheaply on short terms maybe Tanev, Vatanen, Rutta would be ok? Demelo isn't bad but I think Winnipeg re-signs him

Not bad numbers for a scratch and doesn't seem like he missed too many games. He is a serviceable guy who can play the bottom 2 pairs with grit.

Washington Capitals

NHL

63

2

13

15

40

+15

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I do agree we have too many bottom 4 D tho. We really need to hit a home run on a rhd to play with Rielly. Otherwise, we will need to make a trade if we sign someone. I think Tanev would fit the mold the most but he has injury problems. However, his injuries might help us with cap flexibility.

 

[ToneDog]

None are the "answer" but one or two could be part of the solution. Pietro could be the "answer" but unless he is willing to take a discount to be a Leaf, he'll remain a St.L Blues.

 

[Al14]

Yay, let's get Tanev!

He'll be the best choice for... keeping our trainers and medical staff really busy.

He'll likely spend more time in sickbay than being an effective partner for Rielly ON THE ICE!

 

[Buds17]

A forward (winger) for defenceman trade might still be a route to take. That of course is assuming that the elements for that all successfully line up. Although Tanev has been a career Canuck to this point - and injury history aside - Rielly and Tanev have that brief time as a blueline pairing. Dubas obviously almost landed Brodie in trade as well. Apparently Brodie did have the Leafs on his NTC afterwards though IIRC.

I guess we'll have to see if any addition is of either the stopgap or longer term variety.

 

[Fogelhund]

We can't afford those guys, and for the amount of output they are going to give us, they are not going to be worth their cost either... Especially Edmundson and Gudas. Why are we going to pay possibly 3.5-4 mill for guys who do nothing except maybe give us a decent PKer and some physicality on the back end as #4's at the very best? Outside of physicality, they are probably going to perform about as well as Ceci, which is fine, but not exactly a large enough upgrade on our current guys to warrant the cost.

Hamonic and Tanev are upgrades, depending on which version you are getting. Tanev has had a much better year, but between the injuries and his often uninspiring play the past few years, his next contract can be a disaster. Hamonic has had his fair share of injuries and inconsistent play himself, and both are going to be in their 30's to start next year, so the injuries could really start to catch up to them. All of those big contract guys come big risks, and we are not exactly in the position where we can afford to have more contracts like that. We are already going to have to dump 1 or 2 well-priced top 9 forwards like Johnsson, Kapanen, and Kerfoot over the next few years just to afford to maintain the quality we currently have.

So unless you are anticipating them taking a far below market value deal for a reasonable term, which I doubt happens, it is not worth it. If we want someone, we should look at the bargain bin (Kulikov, Sekera, Rutta, TVR, Pysyk, Soucy, Bogosian, Byfuglien, maybe Hutton if he does not have huge demand, etc.) which can range between solid bottom pairing guys who can possibly step up into a top 4 role to quality depth guys who can seriously challenge Sandin, Liljegren, Rosen, Marincin and Lehtonen. We should only look at trading more than one of Johnsson, Kapanen or Kerfoot this year for the right price and if we are confident in both our current internal options (Barabanov, Korshkov, Engvall, Gauthier, Spezza, Bracco, Brooks, etc.) and forward bargain bin options (Ennis, Galchenyuk, Pitlik, Brassard, Jarnkrok, etc.) which may be able to somewhat replace them for a fraction of the cost.

If we don't go deep into the playoffs, the status quo will simply be unacceptable, both inside, and outside the organization. If we don't go deep enough, it is probable that our D will be the issue, and glaring for all to see. How could we possibly display such a weakness, and not even bother to address it?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If we don't go deep into the playoffs, the status quo will simply be unacceptable, both inside, and outside the organization. If we don't go deep enough, it is probable that our D will be the issue, and glaring for all to see. How could we possibly display such a weakness, and not even bother to address it?

Well there are different interpretations of "addressing" the defense. We already signed Lehtonen, who will be a top 6 defender of some kind, we re-signed Muzzin and Holl during the year, we have Sandin and Liljegren coming up, and Dermott is ready to take the next step. Sometimes signing a big name UFA is not the answer, especially when none of them are great fits and will likely cost more on the cap than they are worth. Nevermind the cost, I think people are overrating the impact any of these guys short of Pietrangelo would have on this defense. It may make it better, but I doubt it makes it much better than the cost of having to replace most of our 3rd line with league minimum players.

Also, if this past season was any indication, goaltending (namely Andersen) will likely be the reason we do not go deep in the playoffs.

I do not think it is unreasonable for the Leafs to give their current options a serious chance of cracking the NHL next year. Maybe sign one cheap guy like I mentioned. I do not think we are going to have to worry about our bottom pairing no matter what happens (at least 2 of Marincin, Sandin, Liljegren, Lehtonen, Rosen and a cheap UFA should be able to make a strong bottom pairing next year), so worst case it would be Dermott and Holl sucking in the top 4 next year or we face a bunch of injuries (which is not really anything we can really do about). If that is the case, we may just need to look at a mid-season trade. It would obviously not be ideal, but besides somehow getting a one year, well-below market deal on any of these guys, it is the option that makes the most sense for right now and in the future.

 

[Fogelhund]

Well there are different interpretations of "addressing" the defense. We already signed Lehtonen, who will be a top 6 defender of some kind, we re-signed Muzzin and Holl during the year, we have Sandin and Liljegren coming up, and Dermott is ready to take the next step. Sometimes signing a big name UFA is not the answer, especially when none of them are great fits and will likely cost more on the cap than they are worth. Nevermind the cost, I think people are overrating the impact any of these guys short of Pietrangelo would have on this defense. It may make it better, but I doubt it makes it much better than the cost of having to replace most of our 3rd line with league minimum players.

Also, if this past season was any indication, goaltending (namely Andersen) will likely be the reason we do not go deep in the playoffs.

I do not think it is unreasonable for the Leafs to give their current options a serious chance of cracking the NHL next year. Maybe sign one cheap guy like I mentioned. I do not think we are going to have to worry about our bottom pairing no matter what happens (at least 2 of Marincin, Sandin, Liljegren, Lehtonen, Rosen and a cheap UFA should be able to make a strong bottom pairing next year), so worst case it would be Dermott and Holl sucking in the top 4 next year or we face a bunch of injuries (which is not really anything we can really do about). If that is the case, we may just need to look at a mid-season trade. It would obviously not be ideal, but besides somehow getting a one year, well-below market deal on any of these guys, it is the option that makes the most sense for right now and in the future.

As I said, if we don't go deep into the playoffs, and the D is the reason again... how can status quo be acceptable? Yes, Muzzin and Holl were resigned, Sandin and Liljegren coming, and Dermott too.... yet they are all here now... if that group isn't good enough...

You do make a valid point about the goaltending, but I pointed out... if it's our D that is exposed, then we have to make changes.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

As I said, if we don't go deep into the playoffs, and the D is the reason again... how can status quo be acceptable? Yes, Muzzin and Holl were resigned, Sandin and Liljegren coming, and Dermott too.... yet they are all here now... if that group isn't good enough...

You do make a valid point about the goaltending, but I pointed out... if it's our D that is exposed, then we have to make changes.

If our entire defense is exposed, then how is adding one guy going to change that? Especially any guy outside of Pietrangelo? And if it is anything like last year, our forwards are a huge part of our poor defense... So how is adding a defender going to help that?

If we lose, it's likely not going to be just because of defense. We are not going to lose to Columbus because of defense. If we lose, it will be because our forwards, namely Tavares, Marner, Matthews, and Nylander, did not live up to expectations. Probably will be the same for much of the playoffs. If those guys are hitting on all cylinders, we are going to be tough to beat as long as our defense and goaltending is not downright awful... And right now, Andersen is more likely to be downright awful.

But it will help if we do not have mind-numbing mistakes like Kadri and Gardiner made last year.

 

[Fogelhund]

If our entire defense is exposed, then how is adding one guy going to change that? Especially any guy outside of Pietrangelo? And if it is anything like last year, our forwards are a huge part of our poor defense... So how is adding a defender going to help that?

If we lose, it's likely not going to be just because of defense. We are not going to lose to Columbus because of defense. If we lose, it will be because our forwards, namely Tavares, Marner, Matthews, and Nylander, did not live up to expectations. Probably will be the same for much of the playoffs. If those guys are hitting on all cylinders, we are going to be tough to beat as long as our defense and goaltending is not downright awful... And right now, Andersen is more likely to be downright awful.

But it will help if we do not have mind-numbing mistakes like Kadri and Gardiner made last year.

Seems like a defeatist attitude... don't bother making changes at all, because little changes won't make a difference.

 

[qqaz]

We know Dubas was interested in Brodie. So I have to assume the Leafs will at least inquire about him if he hits the market. He played fantastic with Giordano, who isn't unlike Rielly.

I'm a bit surprised to see DeMelo leading the poll. I guess people assumeassume he'll be cheaper that the other names, but I don't know if that'll end up being true.

Tanev and Hamonic are probably the best fit, based on play style. But both might be looking for too big a paycheque.

I think Vatanen is the guy who will come the cheapest. He's had injury problems, and had a down year. He could sign as low as 3 million. But do you want to sign someone hoping they bounceback? You could get a cheap player who can handle the top pair, or waste cap precious space. Call me crazy, but I like Vatanen.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Didn't Brodie add Toronto to his NTC after the attempted trade?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

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As I said, if we don't go deep into the playoffs, and the D is the reason again... how can status quo be acceptable? Yes, Muzzin and Holl were resigned, Sandin and Liljegren coming, and Dermott too.... yet they are all here now... if that group isn't good enough...

You do make a valid point about the goaltending, but I pointed out... if it's our D that is exposed, then we have to make changes.

We have managed asset draft and development wrong. Now this is extremely hard to do with way draft works today and also with CAP too it is much harder than before to build a team. But step 1 is to build your defense as it takes longest. Then get goalie and centres. Then wingers last.

We got our forwards first and now are developing our defense and our goalie is still 3-5 years away. Hopefully our forwards are still good once our defense becomes top of league. and maybe we can get magic in a bottle with Freddy.

 

[TopProspect91]

The answer is easy: Petro.

You make room for players like that. Whether it’s moving expendable parts like Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, and/or Dermott, you try to make room for him. He ticks all the boxes for a team dying for that right-side 1st paring defensemen.

Knowing Dubas, he’ll be gunning for him, especially if the Leafs are bounced early.

 

[PromisedLand]

How is UFA D-man any answer? There is no cap. I am amazed how majority of the posters don't see how badly this team is built

 

[The CyNick]

It's easy enough to sign someone at $4 mil, if you move some bodies out... let's put it this way, if signing a good RHD is a priority, it can be done... without moving out the big ticket guys.

When I say big ticket, I mean multiple of AJ and KK price level.

As it is, there's not enough money to give RFAs raises and bring them back let alone bring in new guys.

Plus at $4M, you're not getting anyone who will make a huge impact. It's either gotta be someone really cheap who punches above their weight, or a young guy who has been stuck behind a bunch of guys

 

[moon111]

Think it would be easier just to have our existing defensemen turn their heads every once in awhile. Half the time they don't even know where the opposition is because they're puck watching.

 

[Morbo]

The answer is easy: Petro.

You make room for players like that. Whether it’s moving expendable parts like Kapanen, Johnsson, Kerfoot, and/or Dermott, you try to make room for him. He ticks all the boxes for a team dying for that right-side 1st paring defensemen.

Knowing Dubas, he’ll be gunning for him, especially if the Leafs are bounced early.

Pretty much. Petro's the only one worth spending that precious cap space on.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Seems like a defeatist attitude... don't bother making changes at all, because little changes won't make a difference.

Hey, if you can get the right change for the right price, then by all means. I never suggested we do literally nothing... Adding a guy like Pysyk or Rutta on a cheap deal is still something, even though you would still be trusting the defense as constructed, but it is a cheap, no-risk move which could pay off.

However, the changes you are suggesting are far from low risk. Paying one of these guys is likely not going to be cheap, and likely is not going to be short term. We are talking about multiple, somewhat major moves to just fit the guy in, and then fitting the guy in long term could affect guys like Andersen and Rielly. Being overzealous when trying to fix problems like this can get us in trouble if we are not careful.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Played all his games on the right side in Ottawa, not sure about San Jose.

Dillon has never played for the Ottawa Senators in his life. You're thinking of Demelo.

 

[LeafChief]

DeMelo is a younger, more mobile Hainsey. Say what you will about Hainsey but Rielly played his best hockey beside Hainsey. He didn't need to babysit Hainsey and could just play his game.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Dillon has never played for the Ottawa Senators in his life. You're thinking of Demelo.

Ya thinking of Dylan Demelo not Dillon

 

[Mugzy97]

I would look at signing Braun for a year or 2, but he is certainly not the "answer"