GWT: UEFA Champions League Round of 16

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I was on the Camp Nou today and I feel privileged to witness one of the greatest comebacks in soccer history.

The stadium was roaring for most of the game (except 10 minutes after Cavani's goal) and it was a great atmosphere, the best one I've experienced by miles.

Barça fought for it and got it, but this was no master class like the 2-6 at Bernabeu, PSG choked this one.
The first two goals were amateur defending, the 3rd was.. a weird penalty and the 5th a stupid decision by Marquinhos (though it wasn't a penalty and the ref gifted one us there). I thought the ref was horrible in general.

That's awesome glad you were there and got to witness this history. I'm sure you had a blast.

Juventus is the team that worries me. Atletico and Real can beat you at any game, as well as Bayern (though this year they're not impressing me)

Juve for me don't quite cut it compared to the other powerhouses.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Just got to watch the game after traveling the whole day. We were the much better team over two legs. Thoroughly deserved. PEA was great. Pulisic and Bartra were as well. The whole team played well. Excellent performance. Should give the team a lot of confidence heading into the next round.

And my DVR got the end of the Barca win. Crazy. I only saw highlights outside of a few minutes, but seems like Neymar dominated. Emery should be sacked before the plane leaves for France.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd call it 3-2-4-1 or 3-4-2-1 mainly. Dembele is playing centrally but he's clearly not in midfield. Nor is Pulisic. 5-2-3 if you insist on classing the wing backs on the same level as the center backs but with the ball they're clearly far higher than the back line and even the midfield, and some of the time without the ball as well.

I'd say its closest to to a 3-4-3, but its really not that. Its a weird formation because Durm is really athletic, and Schmelzer is not. Schmelzer plays more like a LB, and Durm plays more like a RM, so I guess you could say its a 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-1-2, something like that. Whatever people want to call it, the formation has worked.

 

[Corto]

Well, as a neutral fan, mixed feelings.

On the one hand, historic game, probably never gonna see something like that again.

On the other hand, this was UEFAlona at its worst. It puts a massive taint on the game and once the feelings (and **********) of OMG BARCA HISTORY dies down, maybe people will come to see it.

The first penalty aside (which at worst, is debatable, dude fell, Neymar ran into a guy on the ground - OTOH, he fell in his running lane) there were 3 ridiculous decisions.
(To be clear, I don't think that's a pen, but I can understand people saying it is... let's say it was, and leave it there, but still you got 3 massive decisions..)

Teams play badly and win or tie all the time.
With ANY of those 3 massively botched calls and non-calls, PSG go through.

1. Suarez dive on the 2nd penalty.
"Contact" doesn't mean a foul. It takes serious mental gymnastics to try and justify that dive. It's never a penalty, never a foul. Never.
OR you need to have about 20 penalties per game if you're gonna blow every "contact".


2. Neymar should've been sent off.
After Cavani scored, he lost the ball and lashed out and kicked a PSG player with the ball nowhere near. For me, straight red. But if you think that's going to far, then a yellow.
And he was already on a yellow.
https://twitter.com/MenezRM/status/839603424907902977
Either way, it's a sending off.

3. PSG should've had a penalty when Mascherano brought down Di Maria.
I have no idea how people aren't talking about that. And oh, that's a red card as well.
Here's the play: https://streamable.com/6t8tl
And here's Mascherano admiting it was a foul, but hey at that point, anything goes:
http://www.espn.com.co/video/clip/_/id/3017501


...

Again, it's unpopular now to say this, but as much as a sucker I am for historic comebacks, I'm also a sucker for justice and fairness.

And PSG got absolutely robbed last night.

 

[Live in the Now]

1. Suarez dive on the 2nd penalty.
"Contact" doesn't mean a foul. It takes serious mental gymnastics to try and justify that dive. It's never a penalty, never a foul. Never.
OR you need to have about 20 penalties per game if you're gonna blow every "contact".

Little more than contact here.

 

[les Habs]

Well if there a was a match like this I'd liked to have seen live and not on replay this might have been it. Those last ten minutes or so... Know the result generally doesn't ruin enjoying a match for me and this was no exception, but the fourth and fifth goals didn't get me too excited. That last goal though... Even knowing it was coming that second just based on the ball being played in still didn't stop me from jumping out of my chair. That ball from Neymar and then Sergi going after it like that.

As a Cule and having lived through some lean years I know I've been very fortunate for some time now to have been able to enjoy what a lot of players have given over the years. I also should know not to count them out, ever. Still I wasn't expecting this result.

Full credit to the team for the result. You could see it in the tunnel before the match that they meant business and from the first whistle to the last they did. Neymar did what he's done a lot this season and pulled the strings. Not only that though, he won this match. His freekick, his penalty and that final cross to Sergi all showed why he is the heir. That kid has got a pair of balls on him which to be fair he's shown since pretty much day one. Anyway, the work rate of the team throughout was just tireless while poor defending was cited for the first two goals, it was more than that. Few strikers score the goal Suarez does there like that and Iniesta making that play like that on the second shouldn't be dismissed. I also think Lucho deserves some credit. The team is playing better, he's switched things around and if you watch the moment Sergi Roberto came on he was making runs into the box like he did on that cross from Neymar. He normally doesn't do that and very clearly was under specific instructions.

PSG, despite the result, deserve some respect. I've noticed some ridiculous reactions on this forum to results of late, particularly to a recent Liverpool loss and then to an Arsenal loss. It's amazing the level of posting, but I'll leave that to others. Regardless of how Barça played in the first leg when was the last time you saw a team dominate like that much less against Barça? I fear the first leg will be somewhat lost in the shuffle as time goes by, but there were some very impressive performances in that match from some of the PSG players. As for this match, as many have noted, the blame almost entirely lays at the feet of Emery. Horrible approach to take for any number of reasons. There's a myth perpetuated by only a small handful of real conclusive results that if you set up shop against Barça you'll get the result. Well if you actually watch when the opposition really tries to put some goals on the board you'll see why it's a myth. Anyway, horrible match from Marquinhos. If you ask me he's more to blame for the second goal than Kurzawa. In fact if you watch it in live speed I don't see how you can blame Kurzawa at all really. Also, Cavani's goal, set up pretty nicely by Kurzawa it should be noted, was an excellent strike.

As for the decisions, overall if you watch both legs the aggregate result is fair. That said I felt that first penalty shouldn't have been given. To be sure Meunier was trying to impede Neymar and wasn't going after the ball (as odd as that sounds the replay shows this), but Neymar for me just ran into him. What the officials missed though was an earlier incident Meunier held Neymar back in the box that should have been called. Regarding the penalty against Suarez, that was definitely a penalty. Suarez absolutely reacted theatrically, but his going down wasn't the theatrics. People focus on the contact to his upper body, which alone is impeding him, but they miss the contact where Marquinhos takes his legs out. That was a legit call. Anyway, as I said if you look at both legs I'd say it all evened out.

 

[les Habs]

Well, as a neutral fan, mixed feelings.

On the one hand, historic game, probably never gonna see something like that again.

On the other hand, this was UEFAlona at its worst. It puts a massive taint on the game and once the feelings (and **********) of OMG BARCA HISTORY dies down, maybe people will come to see it.

The first penalty aside (which at worst, is debatable, dude fell, Neymar ran into a guy on the ground - OTOH, he fell in his running lane) there were 3 ridiculous decisions.
(To be clear, I don't think that's a pen, but I can understand people saying it is... let's say it was, and leave it there, but still you got 3 massive decisions..)

Teams play badly and win or tie all the time.
With ANY of those 3 massively botched calls and non-calls, PSG go through.

1. Suarez dive on the 2nd penalty.
"Contact" doesn't mean a foul. It takes serious mental gymnastics to try and justify that dive. It's never a penalty, never a foul. Never.
OR you need to have about 20 penalties per game if you're gonna blow every "contact".


2. Neymar should've been sent off.
After Cavani scored, he lost the ball and lashed out and kicked a PSG player with the ball nowhere near. For me, straight red. But if you think that's going to far, then a yellow.
And he was already on a yellow.
https://twitter.com/MenezRM/status/839603424907902977
Either way, it's a sending off.

3. PSG should've had a penalty when Mascherano brought down Di Maria.
I have no idea how people aren't talking about that. And oh, that's a red card as well.
Here's the play: https://streamable.com/6t8tl
And here's Mascherano admiting it was a foul, but hey at that point, anything goes:
http://www.espn.com.co/video/clip/_/id/3017501


...

Again, it's unpopular now to say this, but as much as a sucker I am for historic comebacks, I'm also a sucker for justice and fairness.

And PSG got absolutely robbed last night.

So much wrong with this post. This is what I'd expect to read from Trump's twitter account.

1) It was always a penalty and always a foul on Suarez. Laughable to think otherwise. He takes him down and it's absolutely not a dive.

2) Verratti and Di Maria both could have been sent off, and as the video you post from "@MenezRM" shows the ball was absolutely near.

3) While I will say that I could never get a great replay of that incident, and I still have yet to see one, I'm going to disagree with Mascherano here. I've now paused it multiple times and based on that ESPN link I think there is contact, but it's after the shot. In fact if you look at the foot that di Maria grabs, it's his right foot and he shot with his left. Clearly after the shot, which he flubbed, was off.

4) You're also failing to mention Neymar being pulled back by Meunier in the first half, a penalty.

5) No mention of the PSG hand ball in the second half of the first leg.

At the end of the day PSG didn't get robbed and your narrative is both wrong and incomplete.

 

[Corto]

Dude, you're just about the biggest Barca fan here.
Like I said, I'm neutral. I was actually rooting for Barca, even after the Neymar and Mascherano incidents.
But the Suarez thing just completely soured it for me, marred a great night.

1) It was always a penalty and always a foul on Suarez. Laughable to think otherwise. He takes him down and it's absolutely not a dive.

That is NOT a dive?
I mean... Like I said, serious mental gymnastics.
https://u.nya.is/zuityl.mp4

Not every contact is a foul. A dude laying a hand on you doesn't cause you to throw up your hands in the air and go flying through the air. Or a scrape on the knee.
Please.

2) Verratti and Di Maria both could have been sent off, and as the video you post from "@MenezRM" shows the ball was absolutely near.

Aye, they could've have.
Neither is a as clear cut or as blatant at this Neymar incident.

And let me explain how how the ball being nowhere near works in football.
This isn't hockey. You don't have a slight window of opportunity to hit the guy after the ball is gone; you have to have actual intent to play the ball.
And the ball has to be there.
He's nowhere near the ball, he has no chance of playing it. He's just lashing out of of frustration.

Again, this should be a straight red. If only the PSG guy milked it like Neymar and Suarez were doing the whole night, right?
But even a yellow was a sending off there.

3) While I will say that I could never get a great replay of that incident, and I still have yet to see one, I'm going to disagree with Mascherano here. I've now paused it multiple times and based on that ESPN link I think there is contact, but it's after the shot. In fact if you look at the foot that di Maria grabs, it's his right foot and he shot with his left. Clearly after the shot, which he flubbed, was off.

You're disagreeing with Mascherano, in your own words.
The guy who actually just played and Nou Camp and was in that incident.
I'll just let that one go at that.

...

I'm not saying the ref didn't get the calls wrong for Barca as well.
But when you add it all up, PSG got shafted. The most blatant ones, the most important ones, went for Barca every time.
It doesn't mean Barca played badly or anything, they were superb.
But without those ref calls, PSG go through.

 

[Evilo]

Of course PSG got robbed by a few shady decisions, but frankly that doesn't matter and shouldn't be used as an excuse.
If they lost this game 5-1 or 6-2, they go through, but they don't deserve to, simply because of the awful level they showed in that second leg.
Emery, Meunier, Marquinhos were completely out of their depth.

Midfield sank, which was and is PSG's forte (one of the best in the world it must be said), and most of the blame has to go to Emery for that.
Cavani was, as he's been all season, the only PSG player who is 100% effort and warrants consideration from everyone.
People here laughing at the suggestion of him being among the best of the season are blind.
He's scoring like crazy, is a constant threat and as you can see, he could have had two yesterday (with his post) and could have made his joke of a team go through thanks to his clutchness.

It's time some people admit they were wrong about him, just like they were wrong about David Luiz (suddenly, I don't hear experts saying he's an awful CB).

 

[Corto]

Of course PSG got robbed by a few shady decisions, but frankly that doesn't matter and shouldn't be used as an excuse.

Yeah, PSG were bad, but...
Barca were rubbish in the first leg and that didn't mean the ref got permit to just push another goal or two PSG's way through shady decisions.

The scoreline makes people look past what happened.
Neymar gets sent off at 3-1 and PSG easily get through. Same for Mascherano penalty (and red). All of a sudden it's 3-1 or 3-2 and it's not even an issue.
No Suarez penalty and it's still 2 goals to score with 3-4 minutes to go.

It's amazing what context does.
If the game is 0-0, CL Final and that penalty gets called on Suarez, the football world is in uproar.
But now, the comeback is at the forefront of everything, it's just being shyly mentioned here and there - but I expect the ref decisions to slowly start turning heads in the next few days.

...

Again, teams have bad days. Doesn't mean they should be getting shafted by the refs.

...

Also, FWIW, for all the glorious football that players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Suarez and Neymar give us, I could easily live with guys like them getting retroactive suspensions every now and then for blatant dives and, well, cheating. Because it is cheating.
Messi doesn't do that, not really - which is why I respect Mr. GOAT even more.

...

As for Cavani... Great player having an amazing year.
He's not just class, he gives it his all.
He's like Mandzukic in the effort department - only also good at actual football.

 

[les Habs]

Dude, you're just about the biggest Barca fan here.
Like I said, I'm neutral. I was actually rooting for Barca, even after the Neymar and Mascherano incidents.
But the Suarez thing just completely soured it for me, marred a great night.

Yeah, and before your post I disputed the penalty given against Meunier.

That is NOT a dive?
I mean... Like I said, serious mental gymnastics.
https://u.nya.is/zuityl.mp4

Not every contact is a foul. A dude laying a hand on you doesn't cause you to throw up your hands in the air and go flying through the air. Or a scrape on the knee.
Please.

No, that is very clearly NOT a dive. Yes, as I noted before you even posted, he embellishes the upper body contact, but Marquinhos still takes him out at the legs and thus it's very clearly not a dive. LOL at "scrape on the knee."

Aye, they could've have.
Neither is a as clear cut or as blatant at this Neymar incident.

They're easily as clear cut. Verratti could have been sent off twice for a total of three yellow card offenses. Instead he got a single yellow.

And let me explain how how the ball being nowhere near works in football.
This isn't hockey. You don't have a slight window of opportunity to hit the guy after the ball is gone; you have to have actual intent to play the ball.
And the ball has to be there.
He's nowhere near the ball, he has no chance of playing it. He's just lashing out of of frustration.

Well then based on your definition, which doesn't fit this scenario anyway, players should be sent off probably three times more than they are.

Again, this should be a straight red. If only the PSG guy milked it like Neymar and Suarez were doing the whole night, right?
But even a yellow was a sending off there.

It's not a straight red and regardless there were two PSG players who should have been sent off as I noted not to mention all the other incidents during the course of the tie.

You're disagreeing with Mascherano, in your own words.
The guy who actually just played and Nou Camp and was in that incident.
I'll just let that one go at that.

Yes, because I have the reply which you provided.

I'm not saying the ref didn't get the calls wrong for Barca as well.
But when you add it all up, PSG got shafted. The most blatant ones, the most important ones, went for Barca every time.
It doesn't mean Barca played badly or anything, they were superb.
But without those ref calls, PSG go through.

No, you definitely are not saying the ref didn't get calls wrong for Barça as well. You're simply providing a false and incomplete narrative. When you add it all up over the course of the tie the calls even out. It doesn't mean that PSG played badly or anything and it's tough to see whether you're a supporter of either team, but that's what happpened. PSG didn't get knocked out as a result of the refs. Were that the case I would agree with you.

 

[les Habs]

Of course PSG got robbed by a few shady decisions, but frankly that doesn't matter and shouldn't be used as an excuse.
If they lost this game 5-1 or 6-2, they go through, but they don't deserve to, simply because of the awful level they showed in that second leg.

Were PSG robbed by a few shady decisions then it does matter. That said the decisions over the course of the two legs even out and so PSG very clearly were not robbed.

 

[Evilo]

Even out ?
First leg ref had one of the best game in recent memory. By everyone's account.
I'm not sure what you mean then.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Suarez's was not a penalty, just about every guy here on Barcelona, no matter if cule, not cule, analyst or not sees it. The guy felt the slightest of contacts and fell like a tree.
I would have done the same given the context of the game, and marquinhos is to blame for giving suarez the chance to do it.

Neymar's was a penalty, although very unlucky from Meunier but definitely got in Neymar's way and that is a penalty.

 

[Corto]

They're easily as clear cut. Verratti could have been sent off twice for a total of three yellow card offenses. Instead he got a single yellow.

I mean, that's not how life works.
Verrati could've gotten booked earlier. Or should have.
But common sense says that after that booking he would've been less aggressive.
Instead, he was only booked late on (stoppage time), and didn't have to play more carefully until then.

Neymar's kick was a textbook straight red. Ball gone, retaliation-kick from behind.

...

As for the Suarez call, I don't know what to tell you if you don't think that's a dive.
He wasn't in full sprint (or running at all) in which case I could understand a case for incidental/reckless contact at the knee to mean something.
And the arm contact (while stupid) is a joke.
If you think that's a reason for Suarez to go flying with his hands up, your call.

As for the leg contact, not only had he already started his flying escapade before the legs touched, his arm also goes to his chest as he is falling down to emphasize the contact with the defender's arm.
He was trying to get the pen based on the arm contact. You have to be blind or biased to deny that.

https://gfycat.com/KindlyAggressiveEyra

Suarez and Neymar were diving the whole night, it was embarassing, and the one thing that left a sour taste after a historic game.

https://twitter.com/OMAR_CR7_/status/839598829645230080
(ignore the twitter feed from a Real fan, look at the actual video)
It's disgusting. To me, anyway.

...

I mean, I've seen this called as well.
https://gfycat.com/DismalMelodicJerboa
(I wouldn't call it, I think it was the right non-call, but I've seen it given, and seeing how these refs go about their business, I'm pretty sure that gets called for PSG if it isn't Real/Barca/Bayern/Juve as the opponent)

No major decision went PSG's way last night, and there were plenty of potentially game-deciding ones there.

 

[Corto]

Suarez's was not a penalty, just about every guy here on Barcelona, no matter if cule, not cule, analyst or not sees it. The guy felt the slightest of contacts and fell like a tree.
I would have done the same given the context of the game, and marquinhos is to blame for giving suarez the chance to do it.

Neymar's was a penalty, although very unlucky from Meunier but definitely got in Neymar's way and that is a penalty.

Yeah, I can see the case for Meunier's fall to be called.
Neymar made the most of the opportunity he was given, but Meunier didn't completely stop moving when he fell. Contact was mostly initiated by Neymar, but that movement can be enough for the penalty.
Either way, at the very worst, it's debatable, and I wouldn't fault the ref either way.
One angle makes it seems 100% pen, other not so much... But yeah, can definitely argue it was a good call.

...

And to be clear, I don't fault Suarez there, he did the only thing he could.
But we can blame the ref, and that same goal-line ref who was there for most of this stuff (Neymar non-booking, and both penalty calls...).
And we can blame UEFA/FIFA/FAs for not fighting diving and giving retroactive bans.

"Dove and won a game for your team? Fair play, well done, cheated and conned the ref.
Have a 3-match ban."

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

This was absolutely one of those moments.

I think the Chelsea-Barca tie was excellent, and I truly loved every moment of it, but last night was quite similar in terms of magic. I'm still speechless.

I hope whoever faces Barcelona learns from this. I think Madrid or Bayern can beat them, but I don't think they'll ever not be the favourite.

 

[Theokritos]

Barcelona showed what they're made of tonight

With all due respect to Barcelona, IMO it was more a case of PSG/Emery showing what they are made of. Barcelona played well, but not more "magical" than usual when they have a good game. Their opponent just didn't show up at all until their aggregate lead had melted from 4 goals to 1 goal with 40 minutes left to play. Emery should be sacked right now.

Juventus is the team that worries me. Atletico and Real can beat you at any game, as well as Bayern (though this year they're not impressing me)

Agreed. Barcelona is not going to be the favourite against any of these teams.

 

[maclean]

As someone with strong sympathies for Barcelona, I have to say the ref did unfortunately taint that win, at the very least degrading it from "magical" to "quite impressive" with a side of "collar pull".

As has been said, Paris let it happen, Barca took full advantage of that, and the ref helped them along a bit. Not the first time a team's got a boost in the CL, but man would I feel bitter if I were on the other side of it. Almost feel like this is a bit of bad karma for Barca going forward but at the same time, damn is it impressive how they've got their act together since the wake-up call in Paris.

 

[Vipers31]

As someone with strong sympathies for Barcelona, I have to say the ref did unfortunately taint that win, at the very least degrading it from "magical" to "quite impressive" with a side of "collar pull".

Well said. I do think pretty much every non-Barca fan and then some see that.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Captivating to see how far off Emery was with his tactics yesterday, compared with how easily his team dismantled Barca in the 1st leg. Barca's back line was pretty much stationed in PSG's half in the entire game, it seemed like. It was bound to be a nerve-racking game for them, hard for me to look at the refs and say they made the result unsavory in the end (Barca was lucky with the calls, don't get me wrong. Hell Masche came out and admitted he fouled Di Maria in the box).

Neymar hasn't scored as much compared to previous years, but he's playing brilliant football. Also was one of the few who showed up in the 1st leg.

 

[Corto]

Captivating to see how far off Emery was with his tactics yesterday, compared with how easily his team dismantled Barca in the 1st leg. Barca's back line was pretty much stationed in PSG's half in the entire game, it seemed like. It was bound to be a nerve-racking game for them, hard for me to look at the refs and say they made the result unsavory in the end (Barca was lucky with the calls, don't get me wrong. Hell Masche came out and admitted he fouled Di Maria in the box).

Think part of it is people are overlooking Barca's midfield.

In these last 3 weekes, Rakitic seems to have found his form of the 2 former seasons (whether the arguing with Enrique is sorted, or was it all the contract talk and rumors, both seem to be behind him).
Busquets seems to be back to to his "normal" self and Iniesta did better (though he's still obviously not peak Iniesta).

Compare that to the mess that Iniesta, Busquets and especially Gomez showed in Paris, and all of a sudden Barca's midfield went from being utterly overrun and destroyed to being in control for the majority of the game.

 

[Ar-too]

PSG lost because of their tactics in the first half. Barca took the opportunity they were given. When I watched the replay, I was amazed to see how tight PSG seemed at the start of the game. Why would Emery choose to setup so deep with a 4-0 lead? Especially after tearing Barca to shreds in the first leg? If you're going to sit that deep, why play Draxler? It made no sense.

I love Cavani, and he's the only PSG player who can hold his head high after that disaster, but this game also showed what separates him from the guys above him. He blew at least 2 clear chances to put the game to bed. After Emery and Marquinhos, he takes as much blame as anyone else.

Anyways, Emery lost the game, and Barca took their chances and won it. Don't talk to me about Suarez. I don't think he actually dove in any of the circumstances. Embellishment != diving.

 

[Corto]

Don't talk to me about Suarez. I don't think he actually dove in any of the circumstances. Embellishment != diving.

Embellishment is fine, tbh.
Embellishment means doing a bit of acting to emphasize an actual foul.

Jumping with both arms and feet into the air and then grabbing your chest/throat after someone placed an arm on you is diving.
Because placing an arm on a person, in football, is NOT a foul.

...

Finally some replays of Mascherano's tackle on Di Maria surfaced.
Remember, Mache admitted it was a foul, and the replays confirm it.
Whether its a red card, debatable. For me, yes. No chance to get the ball there.

https://streamable.com/tf7kb

 

[Jussi]

Little more than contact here.

Did you see the video? His hand was more or less resting on Suarez' shoulder, in no way did it impede him.