WJC: U.S. WJC Team (Roster Post #486)

[HockeyGuy1975]

I didn't like Allain's line choices and some of the team selections but Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, so I'll lay off Allain. Since it's over in my book, here are my grades for the tournament (keep in mind that I'm a nobody and just a casual fan). I look forward to hearing what other folks think.

Jason Zucker B+ Got hurt so it's hard to give him an A. I really like his game and I think he has got the goods to be a good NHL player. I would have liked to see him challenge defensemen more on the rush because he has excellent speed. He looked dangerous when he did challenge one-on-one.

Drew Shore B- I'm not a fan, but he looked good at times, though mostly against weaker competition. Maybe he can be a solid NHL 3rd or 4th line player, where he can excel at faceoffs.

Jeremy Morin B- Got hurt, but I expected a little more since he has some NHL experience. I think he can be a 25-goal scorer in the NHL, but he needs a couple of years in the AHL. He is a good passer, considering he is a shot first kind-of-player.

Chris Kreider A- Got better as the tournament went on. Was good at times against Canada, for example. He has world class speed and above average skills.

Charlie Coyle A The best US forward. I think he will be the best NHL player in the group. I thought he was going to be best player coming in after watching him at BU this year, and he didn't disappoint. Can't wait to see his development over the next few years. One aspect of his game that nobody talks about is his passing. He has excellent vision and makes short passes others don't think about.

Kyle Palmieri B Looked great at times, but undisciplined. He seemed to think he could get away with dumb plays, like slapshots from impossible angles while on the powerplay.

Jeremy D'Amigo C+ I've never been much of a fan and he gave what I expected. A decent effort but missing that X factor. I don't see him making the Leafs anytime soon. I hope he proves his doubters wrong.

Nick Bjugstad B He looked great against Finland and only showed flashes in other games. He is still very raw. He will be very good for the Panthers in the longrun. He hogged the puck at times against the weaker teams and I found it frustrating.

Emerson Etem B- Great speed. Allain shifted him around a bunch and I think that hurt his impact. He reminds me of Milan Michalek with a bit better hockey sense.

Ryan Bourque B- He is what he is. It isn't his fault that Allain puts him on the 1st line and in important situations. He doesn't have much offensive skill, but he made some good defensive plays. He was very good when defending a 5 on 3. I don't see him in an NHL uniform.

Brock Nelson B- Looked out of his element. Maybe the early injury contributed. He is also very raw. I think going from Minnesota high school hockey (like Bjugstad) to the WJC is a very big jump and he wasn't mentally fit for such a big task. Again, not his fault. I think he will be a good NHL player in the longrun.

Chris Brown A- I thought he was the second best forward after Coyle. I liked him coming in and I didn't understand why so many others on HF were down on him. I think he proved that he is a big body with some above average puck skills. He reminds me a bit of Backes.

Mitch Callahan B+ He provided what was asked of him. He is very strong on his feet and doesn't think twice before crashing the net. I'm glad USA Hockey gave him a chance to be on this team.

Jon Merrill C+ Was absolutely brutal against Canada. He has good offensive abilities, but he seems to make bonehead plays regularly. I don't know about him in the longrun. I'm not sure he has the smarts to make it. He wasn't ready for this level of hockey.

Justin Faulk A Definitely the best defensemen IMO. He is by far the best dman from last year's U18 team, even though he doesn't get the hype because a bunch of other guys got drafted ahead of him (purely because of size differences). I think he can be a 1 or 2 defensemen in the NHL for Carolina. I look forward to seeing him wearing the USA uniform for many years.

Derek Forbort B- Very, very raw. Which is surprising since he came out of the NTDP program. At times he looked like he couldn't keep up with certain forwards, but that is to be expected. He probably wasn't ready to be on this team.

Brian Dumoulin B Played well most of the time. His skating is okay, but he is not very quick. His puck skills are a bit shaky too.

Nick Leddy B+ You could tell he wasn't intimidated by Canada, and was the most mature player on D. Great skater and good positional playing. His size hampers him a bit. He isn't as strong as Faulk, for example, who is of similar size.

John Ramage B- I'm not much of a fan. At times he was brutal. Yet the coaching staff had no problem putting him on the ice during most of the key situations. I liked his no die attitude against Canada though.

Patrick Wey B I think he can be a good player. At times it looked like he was very unsure of himself when he had the puck. I think he just needs experience and he was a good selection for this team.

Jack Campbell A+ What can you say. He showed why he is a 1st rounder. I think he'll be wearing the USA jersey for many years to come.

Andy Iles N/A


Looking back, I still wished Allain had taken Nieto/Saad and some of the CHL defencemen. I think Nieto would have provided some offensive and wouldn't have been so shaky in the key moments since he has been a stud for the NTDP. But I don't really have beef with the team selections though.

 

[SkinsFan09]

You could also say that the U.S. team last year was much better as well.

I think both teams were better last year.

 

[William H Bonney]

I didn't like Allain's line choices and some of the team selections but Monday morning quarterbacking is easy, so I'll lay off Allain. Since it's over in my book, here are my grades for the tournament (keep in mind that I'm a nobody and just a casual fan). I look forward to hearing what other folks think.

Looking back, I still wished Allain had taken Nieto/Saad and some of the CHL defencemen. I think Nieto would have provided some offensive and wouldn't have been so shaky in the key moments since he has been a stud for the NTDP. But I don't really have beef with the team selections though.

I think you're more than generous with your grades and that they didn't really match up with a lot of the descriptions you gave which I agreed with. I think a lot of players have been disappointing, especially the returnees. D'Amigo was a huge letdown. Palmieri, Morin, Zucker and Kreider didn't come close to stepping up as they should have to make an impact. Granted, the injuries didn't help Morin and Zucker, the latter who I thought didn't look himself tonight and probably still isn't healthy. Bourque wasn't good at all IMO but may assessment would change if he were on the 4th line playing the role he should have. Ramage was atrocious.

Jack Campbell was the only returnee that played to his capabilities. Combine that with players that were expected to step up (Bjugstad, Shore, Leddy) essentially as no shows and the lack of chemistry and it's the perfect storm.

If I had to pick our 3 best players (as they do at the end) I'd say it's easily the following: Charlie Coyle, Jack Campbell, and Justin Faulk. I wouldn't even come close to considering anyone else.

 

[S E P H]

Do you what would be funny? That this year's team doesn't even win a medal and next years time is filled with tons of rookies and win gold.

 

[HockeyGuy1975]

I think you're more than generous with your grades and that they didn't really match up with a lot of the descriptions you gave which I agreed with. I think a lot of players have been disappointing, especially the returnees. D'Amigo was a huge letdown. Palmieri, Morin, Zucker and Kreider didn't come close to stepping up as they should have to make an impact. Granted, the injuries didn't help Morin and Zucker, the latter who I thought didn't look himself tonight and probably still isn't healthy. Bourque wasn't good at all IMO but may assessment would change if he were on the 4th line playing the role he should have. Ramage was atrocious.

Jack Campbell was the only returnee that played to his capabilities. Combine that with players that were expected to step up (Bjugstad, Shore, Leddy) essentially as no shows and the lack of chemistry and it's the perfect storm.

If I had to pick our 3 best players (as they do at the end) I'd say it's easily the following: Charlie Coyle, Jack Campbell, and Justin Faulk. I wouldn't even come close to considering anyone else.

Perhaps so on the grades, but I tried to not let the Canada game speak for the whole tourney. Maybe I was a bit generous. On Bourque, it isn't his fault that Allain went with him so much. I agree mostly on the returnees. I thought Kreider was the only returnee that played well, but only in the latter games. Zucker doesn't really count, but he was very good in the early games. I don't think D'Amigo was a huge letdown because I never expected much from him; I always felt his big goals last year were lucky.

Do you know whom are the returnees next year?

 

[Rally Donkey]

I Told You So

As much as it pains me to say it (Bonney et al)....

I TOLD YOU SO.

NHL Network: "The only reason the score was close was because of Jack Campbell"

Me: you call 4-1 close? Our defense was barely visible. I get that you want to promote the NCAA route, but to exclude formidable American-born defensemen from even the tryouts is - well, the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying the CHL is superior in all respects - what I am saying is that if you're going to go into an international competition and expect to beat a top contender which has 100% players from the CHL, you might want to have two or three defensemen that have seen them before. I thought Ramage was on par - can't say the same for the rest.

 

[William H Bonney]

As much as it pains me to say it (Bonney et al)....

I TOLD YOU SO.

NHL Network: "The only reason the score was close was because of Jack Campbell"

Me: you call 4-1 close? Our defense was barely visible. I get that you want to promote the NCAA route, but to exclude formidable American-born defensemen from even the tryouts is - well, the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying the CHL is superior in all respects - what I am saying is that if you're going to go into an international competition and expect to beat a top contender which has 100% players from the CHL, you might want to have two or three defensemen that have seen them before. I thought Ramage was on par - can't say the same for the rest.

How is that "I Told You So"?

Most USA Hockey followers here probably put their biggest worries on our defense, especially against Canada. They didn't pass the test tonight. I'm still not sure that we should be hanging our struggles on the lack of an Austin Levi or Brandon Archibald but hindsight is a beautiful thing. It's not like they left John Carlson or Zach Bogosian home like in years passed. I'd prefer more USA Hockey lean towards CHL guys over NCAA guys if they consider them equals because I think the rigors of CHL hockey is much more conducive to success here than the NCAA.

Your Ramage observation is weird though. He was bad all tournament.

 

[HockeyGuy1975]

As much as it pains me to say it (Bonney et al)....

I TOLD YOU SO.

NHL Network: "The only reason the score was close was because of Jack Campbell"

Me: you call 4-1 close? Our defense was barely visible. I get that you want to promote the NCAA route, but to exclude formidable American-born defensemen from even the tryouts is - well, the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying the CHL is superior in all respects - what I am saying is that if you're going to go into an international competition and expect to beat a top contender which has 100% players from the CHL, you might want to have two or three defensemen that have seen them before. I thought Ramage was on par - can't say the same for the rest.

I agree a couple of CHL dmen would have been helpful, but you're saying this as if it is a fact. It's impossible to say now.

In any case, who would you have taken? I heard most folks talk about Levi. Looking back, I think that Merrill and Wey shouldn't have been there. I would still have taken Forbort for experience.

 

[William H Bonney]

Do you know whom are the returnees next year?

Jack Campbell
Andy Iles
Justin Faulk
Derek Forbort
Jon Merrill
Nick Bjugstad
Charlie Coyle
Emerson Etem
Jason Zucker

 

[S E P H]

Jack Campbell
Andy Iles
Justin Faulk
Derek Forbort
Jon Merrill
Nick Bjugstad
Charlie Coyle
Emerson Etem
Jason Zucker

That's a pretty core, but we can't make too fast judgments because look at what happened tonight.

 

[William H Bonney]

That's a pretty core, but we can't make too fast judgments because look at what happened tonight.

Yeah. It's definitely a good core to carry over. Nice to have a little more balance with 2 centers instead of 0 and 3 d-men instead of 1 returning. Not pretty much all wingers.

Campbell is obviously the centerpiece. Iles probably loses his spot to one of the '93 goalies like John Gibson or Matt McNeely to give them some experience to take over for Jack in 2012.

Hell, I'll post a predicted Summer Camp roster prediction list now even though it's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early. I'm bored and let down by Team USA and my Kings right now.

 

[HockeyGuy1975]

Next year we'll hear about all of the Californians on USA. That is my early prediction.

Etem
Zucker (LV mostly)
Nieto
Grimaldi
McColgan
Who else?

 

[William H Bonney]

2011 Summer Camp Roster Prediction​

Goalies (x4):

Jack Campbell*
Andy Iles*
John Gibson
Michael Houser

Defense (x13):

Brandon Archibald
Adam Clendening
Nick Ebert
Justin Faulk*
Derek Forbort*
Stephen Johns
Austin Levi
Scott Mayfield
Jon Merrill*
Michael Paliotta
Jamie Oleksiak
Jordan Schmaltz
Jarred Tinordi


Forwards (x25):

Seth Ambroz
Bill Arnold
Nick Bjugstad*
Tyler Biggs
Reid Boucher
Connor Brickley
Charlie Coyle*
Emerson Etem*
Rocco Grimaldi
Kevin Hayes
Colin Jacobs
Phil Lane
Mario Lucia
Shane McColgan
Michael Mersch
J.T. Miller
Matt Nieto
Stefan Noesen
Shane Prince
Bryan Rust
Brandon Saad
Nick Shore
Vince Trocheck
Austin Watson
Jason Zucker*

 

[melinko]

Coaching staff was terrible, they made no adjustments at all when it was clear lines weren't working early in the tourny.

They used Zucker strictly as a 3rd line grinder when he should be getting some PP time, he could be the best goal scorer on the team.

Disappointing.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

All I can hope is this leads to a further refinement in the selection process, both for players and coaching. We shouldn't have to rely on a "perfect storm" to win a gold medal. There have to be coaches out there that can do the job of an Eaves and Blais. This was a hard-working team, but not an especially gifted one. Some more playmakers at both ends would have made a big difference, but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

The stubbornness of this coaching staff is what bothers me. It reeks of the Ron Rolston coached staffs in previous times. It's been clear since early in the second game that these lines weren't clicking. We were only scoring because we were putting up 40+ shots a game on talent alone and that talent disparity wasn't going to stand up forever when we had to face Canada, Sweden, or Russia. You can't change the players you have there but you can certainly attempt to jump start the chemistry and creativity by mixing them up. It may not work and it may just be a collection of players that didn't come together or a system that wasn't going to produce success but the fact that nothing was done to try and alleviate the issues is what's frustrating. I have the same feeling now as I did when Ron Rolston watched Tom McCollum single handily sink Team USA two years ago. Was Unice the answer that year? Probably not but it wouldn't have hurt to try before the 5th place game.

The players deserve blame too of course for not performing and while I don't think line juggling tonight would have made a difference with the A+ game Canada brought, it may have earlier in the tournament. This group has looked like a bunch of players that either don't know what Allain and co. wanted from them or didn't care and did whatever because they've been a convoluted bunch that hasn't shown any cohesion all tournament. Why is a team struggling to score leaving Ryan Bourque on the first line?

I didn't consider the team the favorite but definitely a favorite. Canada should always be the prohibitive favorite here and I had Sweden and Russia right up there too. The Canadian media is mainly the source of all the Team USA is the prohibitive favorites, blah blah blah, empty talk. It's calculated.

I would agree that Allain and co tried shoving a square peg into a round hole with the insistence on playing Allain's system at Yale. It just didn't work with this group of players, mainly (IMO) because the d was seemingly incapable of routinely making a breakout pass and the wingers just weren't adept enough at creating space for themselves on the way to the net.

 

[William H Bonney]

All I can hope is this leads to a further refinement in the selection process, both for players and coaching. We shouldn't have to rely on a "perfect storm" to win a gold medal. There have to be coaches out there that can do the job of an Eaves and Blais. This was a hard-working team, but not an especially gifted one. SOme more playmakers at both ends would have made a big difference, but hindsight is 20/20.

The one target I'd love to see next year is Kevin Constantine. Tons of coaching experience at every level imaginable, including the WJC. He's currently coaching in the Swiss Elite League but the idea of the WJC as a possible audition for getting a high profile job back in the NHL/AHL/CHL could be an enticing offer. He'd be my top non-traditional pick.

I'd be tickled to see Eaves or Blais return but I think it's highly unlikely right now. It won't happen but I'd LOVE to see USA Hockey go outside of the College coaching ranks for a change. Todd Watson, head coach/GM of the Saginaw Spirit, would be a likely target. Hell, just go outside the norm even for an assistant coach to bring some more insight to the Canadian players and a different approach to the tournament/games. Other CHL candidates include Robbie Ftorek from Erie and Mike Vellucci from Plymouth.

That said, I expect Jeff Jackson from Notre Dame and current assistant Mark Osiecki from Ohio St. to be their top targets. Wild card pick is current U-17 NTDP coach Danton Cole

One improvement to the process I'd love to see is a more collaborative scouting process amongst the Americans throughout the North American coaching ranks. I'm not one of those that think USA Hockey is out to get CHL Americans but they definitely side with familiarity too easily IMO. It's pretty incredulous to me that when Mitch Callahan made the preliminary roster they basically up and said they new nothing of him until late in the game. How does that happen? You can identify American players in all leagues pretty easily in 30 minutes with internet access and while stats aren't everything, Callahan's were at least good enough for you to say "hey, there's a kid we should probably go check out." I just don't get how you can be aware of Tyler Maxwell from Everett but not Callahan from Kelowna other than a spotty scouting system. I'd like to see them employ more of a model the Olympic team used last year with a committee of GMs scouting players but use coaches instead of GMs obviously. There's no American head coaches in the WHL but I'm sure there's quite a few assistants. Bring their input into the fold early, along with the OHL coaches, and select NCAA coaches from all the major leagues to improve the identification and scouting process. Just like it was pretty annoying to hear about Callahan, it was also frustrating to hear Keith Allain - on multiple occasions - say that he really didn't know very much about his players....there's no excuse for that.

 

[Street Hawk]

I think both teams were better last year.

Canada's D last year wasn't as mobile as this year and that made a huge difference in defending the speed of the US.

Cowen was still coming off ACL surgery and you could see a huge improvement in his mobility this year.

I think it was either Hamonic or Scandella who got hurt in the semi's against the Swiss late, which was their shutdown pair.

Coupled with de Haan who got a concussion early in the tournament, but he came back at the end and Canada had to move MacMillan from forward to the blueline.

 

[Street Hawk]

CHL Coach

Would the Americans really select a coach from the CHL as opposed to the NCAA?

 

[William H Bonney]

Would the Americans really select a coach from the CHL as opposed to the NCAA?

I hate to speak in absolutes but no.

 

[Rally Donkey]

How is that "I Told You So"?

Most USA Hockey followers here probably put their biggest worries on our defense, especially against Canada. They didn't pass the test tonight. I'm still not sure that we should be hanging our struggles on the lack of an Austin Levi or Brandon Archibald but hindsight is a beautiful thing. It's not like they left John Carlson or Zach Bogosian home like in years passed. I'd prefer more USA Hockey lean towards CHL guys over NCAA guys if they consider them equals because I think the rigors of CHL hockey is much more conducive to success here than the NCAA.

Your Ramage observation is weird though. He was bad all tournament.

I thought Ramage made a couple of good plays last night, but overall the d-corp was flat. I don't think our guys are less skilled than Canada's, but I do think they're not used to the style of play they see from Canada and that's why any team that faces them can benefit from a balance of players who have that familiarity. If you give Merrill and the rest three or four months in the O or Dub, they'd adjust fine. They sure wouldn't be standing around fishing for loose pucks in front of their net - they'd be putting guys on their bee-hinds.

Campbell's a good example - a stellar ahthlete any way you look at it, but you can't tell me he hasn't benefitted from playing the first half of the season in Windsor. He knows Kassian's moves (and many others). It has added a dimension to his game that his defensive teammates have yet to experience (until last night). Same goes for the coaching - if all you ever experience and prepare for are NCAA games, you can watch tapes of opponents til you're blue in the face, but there's no substitute for real game experience. Are the Levis and Rogalski's better overall than the D we have now? I don't think that's a fair question. It depends on the situation as they all have their strengths, but I stand by my argument that until USA Hockey picks a team to win instead of picking a team to prove their way is the only way, we're going to struggle.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I thought Ramage made a couple of good plays last night, but overall the d-corp was flat. I don't think our guys are less skilled than Canada's, but I do think they're not used to the style of play they see from Canada and that's why any team that faces them can benefit from a balance of players who have that familiarity. If you give Merrill and the rest three or four months in the O or Dub, they'd adjust fine. They sure wouldn't be standing around fishing for loose pucks in front of their net - they'd be putting guys on their bee-hinds.

Campbell's a good example - a stellar ahthlete any way you look at it, but you can't tell me he hasn't benefitted from playing the first half of the season in Windsor. He knows Kassian's moves (and many others). It has added a dimension to his game that his defensive teammates have yet to experience (until last night). Same goes for the coaching - if all you ever experience and prepare for are NCAA games, you can watch tapes of opponents til you're blue in the face, but there's no substitute for real game experience. Are the Levis and Rogalski's better overall than the D we have now? I don't think that's a fair question. It depends on the situation as they all have their strengths, but I stand by my argument that until USA Hockey picks a team to win instead of picking a team to prove their way is the only way, we're going to struggle.

To me, this game was less about CHL vs NCAA and more about finesse vs brawn. Don't get me wrong, Canada has an extremely skilled line-up-but they complemented that with a physical element. The U.S. looked like a bunch of Tom Poti and Blake Wheeler clones. Decent pieces within an overall team structure, but not what a team identity should be.

 

[Ward Cornell]

It won't happen but I'd LOVE to see USA Hockey go outside of the College coaching ranks for a change. Todd Watson, head coach/GM of the Saginaw Spirit, would be a likely target. Hell, just go outside the norm even for an assistant coach to bring some more insight to the Canadian players and a different approach to the tournament/games. Other CHL candidates include Robbie Ftorek from Erie and Mike Vellucci from Plymouth.

IMHO...Mike Vellucci is one of the best coaches anywhere at any level of hockey. (NHL included)
He's has the knack of selecting talent and attitude that forms the best team possible.
Star power doesn't come into his selections...just winning.
All fans in the OHL has the utmost respect for Vellucci.

Unfortunately for the American fans I doubt he would work well with USA Hockey. (actually it's probably the reverse!)

 

[Johnny Snake Eyes]

Goalies

Jack Campbell
Michael Houser

Defense

Adam Clendening
Nick Ebert
Justin Faulk
Derek Forbort
Scott Mayfield
Jon Merrill
Jamie Oleksiak/Seth Jones-i know long very long shot but i would like to see it

Centers

Nick Bjugstad
Charlie Coyle
Austin Watson
Rocco Grimaldi

Wingers

Colin Jacobs
Emerson Etem
Matt Nieto
Jason Zucker
Brandon Sadd
Shane Prince
Conner Brickley
Tyler Biggs
Alex Galchenyuk

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'll be interested to see if they try to get Galchenyuk into the fold at the Summer Eval camp.