Player Discussion Tyler Motte Appreciation

[krutovsdonut]

If you'd compared him to some 20-point 3rd liner who carved out a good NHL career, that's totally fair. Comparing him to guys who were 35-goal front-line players in this league because he had a good game - snapping a 13-game pointless streak - is ridiculous.

i compared him to some other guys who upped their game off the 4th line by finding and sustaining another level of energy and intensity. it was an offhand remark. i didn't project him to be a 35 goal scorer. i said he might be reaching a new level from the energy he is showing.

now, i shouldn't have to defend myself from making such a remark because it was a reasonable remark.

but since you want to make a capital case out of me daring to float the idea a canuck player might improve, here's more grist for your mill:

1. calling gelinas a 35 goal scorer would have been ridiculous when we acquired him off waivers and for some times after that. he achieved that in his 4th season as a canuck. prior to that the oilers then nordiques both gave up on him, and he was picked up for nothing as a low minutes 4th liner for us. it wasn't until he found his game in a certain playoff run with us that he began to turn into the player he became and then it happened gradually over another season and a half.

2. and burrows, even after he made the nhl, was a 4th line energy hustler for 2 years who nobody foresaw as a 35 goal scorer until, again, he found another level.

anyway, i vote we rename this thread "motte, do we really need him?" in your honour.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Mottey boy Motterson aka Clamato is a super fun player to watch, I’m gonna start shotgunning clam juice for his goals and when he dipsy doodles on a shorty I’m gonna make it a Dub!

 

[Jimbo57]

Calm down dude, I've already said I like Motte's game and he's an ideal 12th/13th forward.

apologies, i know i get worked up sometimes.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

We have no idea what those guys would have done so it's a pointless argument.

And we never will. They will never play in the playoffs; they aren't near as good as Tyler Motte. Just please take an L on your evaluation of Brendan Gaunce and Darren Archibald. They aren't NHL players. Next there'll be posts in the Fantenberg thread that he could be replaced with Ryan Stanton.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Man I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about the Vanek trade and it actually worked out. It regards to his next contract, I can see anywhere between 1-1.75 million per for 2-3 years.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Mottey boy Motterson aka Clamato is a super fun player to watch, I’m gonna start shotgunning clam juice for his goals and when he dipsy doodles on a shorty I’m gonna make it a Dub!

that could get ugly fast.

 

[bossram]

i said he could be doing a burrows or gelinas, referring to a certain way of achieving success through relentless hustle lifting your entire game.

and even burrows was not burrows right up until he was burrows.

but you guys know better.

Most 4th liners do not become 1st liners. So if I had to bet, that Motte will not become a 1st liner.

I like Motte for what he is. I don't have dreams of him becoming something unrealistic.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Most 4th liners do not become 1st liners. So if I had to bet, that Motte will not become a 1st liner.

I like Motte for what he is. I don't have dreams of him becoming something unrealistic.

when did i say he would become a 1st liner?

gelinas was a 1st liner for one year in a 20 year career.

 

[VanJack]

yes anything above 1.25 for 2yrs and i'm not happy. Motte had an amazing game and deserves credit. Analytics for 4th line heavy defensive zone starters is laughable. The job is to bend and not break and his PK work hits shot blocks and pace and intensity has been excellent. He's still a 4th liner at the end of the day though.

Brendan Gaunce?? really guys. If you like too slow and soft big men who play the most uninteresting scratch your eyes out boring hockey then fill your boots. The fact that some thought he was a good 3rd liner was brow raising enough lets not go back down that rabbit hole. That guy was like watching old timer hockey at 8Rinks and i say that as someone who liked him as a person.

Lol!....posters are debating whether Motte is worth any more than a buck and half....which is basically chump change in today's NHL......meantime on most nights, his other linemates on the fourth line are Beagle and Eriksson who collectively tie up $9m in cap space.

 

[MS]

And we never will. They will never play in the playoffs; they aren't near as good as Tyler Motte. Just please take an L on your evaluation of Brendan Gaunce and Darren Archibald. They aren't NHL players. Next there'll be posts in the Fantenberg thread that he could be replaced with Ryan Stanton.

Oh, hi, brand new account that magically knows my entire posting history going back over half a decade. I feel like I've seen this movie before.

Two quick multiple-choice questions for ya :

Would it have been better to have :

a) paid Ryan Stanton - a guy who got good results as a #6-7 defender - $700k to continue in that role.
b) paid Luca Sbisa $3 million to be bludgeoned in the same role.

Would it have been better to have :

a) paid Brendan Gaunce $800k to be a bottom-6 forward for this team, in a role where he got very good results in 100+ games.
b) paid Tim Schaller $2 million to absolutely suck ass in the same role.

I await your answers.

 

[strattonius]

Oh, hi, brand new account that magically knows my entire posting history going back over half a decade. I feel like I've seen this movie before.

Two quick multiple-choice questions for ya :

Would it have been better to have :

a) paid Ryan Stanton - a guy who got good results as a #6-7 defender - $700k to continue in that role.
b) paid Luca Sbisa $3 million to be bludgeoned in the same role.

Would it have been better to have :

a) paid Brendan Gaunce $800k to be a bottom-6 forward for this team, in a role where he got very good results in 100+ games.
b) paid Tim Schaller $2 million to absolutely suck ass in the same role.

I await your answers.

Stop conflating the argument with different players and different situations.

We should just ask ourselves what the max amount of term and dollar we would pay Motte. For me its 2 yrs @ 1.5M.

Its kinda crazy how we have one of the worst and overpaid bottom 6's because of Benning but a solid guy comes along and we talk about pinching the pennies.

 

[MS]

Stop conflating the argument with different players and different situations.

We should just ask ourselves what the max amount of term and dollar we would pay Motte. For me its 2 yrs @ 1.5M.

Its kinda crazy how we have one of the worst and overpaid bottom 6's because of Benning but a solid guy comes along and we talk about pinching the pennies.

I wasn't the one bringing up arguments for years ago.

We should be pinching pennies on EVERY bottom-6/depth signing. Just because paying Motte $1.5 million isn't as bad as paying Jay Beagle $3 million doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Tyler Motte has zero leverage. He's a fringe 4th liner who scored 8 points last year and has been outscored at ES by a 2:1 ratio as a Canuck. This is a guy you grind for every penny on a short-term deal.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i am not sure i am at 1.5m per year yet, but i am leaning towards a 2 year term, subject of course to expansion draft considerations.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

that could get ugly fast.

i did a dry run that was anything but dry and although I’m currently on an IV to get me back to feeling human I have to say it was worth the battle

janbulispiggyback has the same complete level as Clamato

 

[orcatown]

Motte's game is build around constant speed and puck pressure. Typically a top 6 type has various gears and an ability to hold up the play and look for situations in the offensive zone to exploit. Can see that in a lot of the work done by players like Pettersson or O'Reilly whose play making is done when not at top speed or even when standing still. Might be that Motte has more of that in him than he has been allowed to show but, in the end I see most of Motte's goals coming off the rush and not from play making in the offensive zone. Yet, I can see how some would question that. He was an offensive force in college (makes me think Brackett had a hand in going after him) and game is still evolving.

How did Gaunce come into this??? Only reason he was in the NHL at all is because the Canucks were maybe worse team in the League and couldn't do better than Gaunce and Willie seemed have a soft spot for him. Absolutely couldn't score at the NHL level (1 goal in 77 games through the 2015 - 2017 seasons) nor could he skate well enough at that level (tended to fall when he tired to pivot sharply and constantly lost speed on his turns whereas just about all NHLers pick up speed on turns) . Right now he is a player who will be 27 next season and, at best, will only get a two way deal from some team looking to help out their minor League team (maybe Utica can use him). Otherwise, and likely given the cap situations, will be playing overseas, if he wants to continue in hockey.

MS you've got to give this up. Like all of us, sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. It does no one's credibility any good to cling to a position which has long since been proved misguided. Why continue to die on the Gaunce hill.

 

[MS]

Motte's game is build around constant speed and puck pressure. Typically a top 6 type has various gears and an ability to hold up the play and look for situations in the offensive zone to exploit. Can see that in a lot of the work done by players like Pettersson or O'Reilly whose play making is done when not at top speed or even when standing still. Might be that Motte has more of that in him than he has been allowed to show but, in the end I see most of Motte's goals coming off the rush and not from play making in the offensive zone. Yet, I can see how some would question that. He was an offensive force in college (makes me think Brackett had a hand in going after him) and game is still evolving.

How did Gaunce come into this??? Only reason he was in the NHL at all is because the Canucks were maybe worse team in the League and couldn't do better than Gaunce and Willie seemed have a soft spot for him. Absolutely couldn't score at the NHL level (1 goal in 77 games through the 2015 - 2017 seasons) nor could he skate well enough at that level (tended to fall when he tired to pivot sharply and constantly lost speed on his turns whereas just about all NHLers pick up speed on turns) . Right now he is a player who will be 27 next season and, at best, will only get a two way deal from some team looking to help out their minor League team (maybe Utica can use him). Otherwise, and likely given the cap situations, will be playing overseas, if he wants to continue in hockey.

MS you've got to give this up. Like all of us, sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. It does no one's credibility any good to cling to a position which has long since been proved misguided. Why continue to die on the Gaunce hill.

Someone asked if any checking line had ever produced positive possession results with tough zone starts. The obvious answer was that Gaunce-Sutter-Archibald did exactly that for this very team a couple years ago from 20% o-zone starts. That was all I said. Then a bunch of other posters started freaking out at the mention of Gaunce.

As for Gaunce himself, he played 100+ games here in tough depth minutes and generated better results than anyone in that role since at a fraction of the cost. When you look at what junk like Beagle and Schaller cost this year, it should be pretty obvious why he keeps getting brought up.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Someone asked if any checking line had ever produced positive possession results with tough zone starts. The obvious answer was that Gaunce-Sutter-Archibald did exactly that for this very team a couple years ago from 20% o-zone starts. That was all I said. Then a bunch of other posters started freaking out at the mention of Gaunce.

As for Gaunce himself, he played 100+ games here in tough depth minutes and generated better results than anyone in that role since at a fraction of the cost. When you look at what junk like Beagle and Schaller cost this year, it should be pretty obvious why he keeps getting brought up.

That's funny. In the management thread you don't seem to care about statistics and insist the way something "looks" is more important.

 

[bossram]

when did i say he would become a 1st liner?

gelinas was a 1st liner for one year in a 20 year career.

You're saying you think he's gonna develop into something more. One great game isn't really an indication of anything. Game 3 he played a lot of minutes and got absolutely caved in. Doesn't mean he was turning into a worse player.

 

[MS]

That's funny. In the management thread you don't seem to care about statistics and insist the way something "looks" is more important.

I am not an advanced stats guy, but there are certain situations where advanced stats do quite obviously mean something. In particular, advanced stats are driven by context and usage and when guys with incredibly unfavourable usage manage to chug out positive results, that sticks out like a sore thumb and is noteworthy. Same as Chris Tanev's results from a few years ago when he was at his best.

The fact that that line was sawing off shot attempts and goals from the usage they were given was outstanding. And for the record, that line 'looked' effective, too, and Gaunce 'looked' far better than Tim Schaller and Archibald 'looked' far better than Markus Granlund.

 

[sting101]

Lol!....posters are debating whether Motte is worth any more than a buck and half....which is basically chump change in today's NHL......meantime on most nights, his other linemates on the fourth line are Beagle and Eriksson who collectively tie up $9m in cap space.

Eriksson is completely irrelevant to this type of discussion

 

[hookshott]

Motte's game is build around constant speed and puck pressure. Typically a top 6 type has various gears and an ability to hold up the play and look for situations in the offensive zone to exploit. Can see that in a lot of the work done by players like Pettersson or O'Reilly whose play making is done when not at top speed or even when standing still. Might be that Motte has more of that in him than he has been allowed to show but, in the end I see most of Motte's goals coming off the rush and not from play making in the offensive zone. Yet, I can see how some would question that. He was an offensive force in college (makes me think Brackett had a hand in going after him) and game is still evolving.

How did Gaunce come into this??? Only reason he was in the NHL at all is because the Canucks were maybe worse team in the League and couldn't do better than Gaunce and Willie seemed have a soft spot for him. Absolutely couldn't score at the NHL level (1 goal in 77 games through the 2015 - 2017 seasons) nor could he skate well enough at that level (tended to fall when he tired to pivot sharply and constantly lost speed on his turns whereas just about all NHLers pick up speed on turns) . Right now he is a player who will be 27 next season and, at best, will only get a two way deal from some team looking to help out their minor League team (maybe Utica can use him). Otherwise, and likely given the cap situations, will be playing overseas, if he wants to continue in hockey.

MS you've got to give this up. Like all of us, sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. It does no one's credibility any good to cling to a position which has long since been proved misguided. Why continue to die on the Gaunce hill.

Motte Michigan stats:

2015-16

U. of Michigan

Big-10

38

32

24

56

36

28

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

32 goals in 38 games....not too shabby!

 

[vanuck]

Thanks, this is wanted to check.

Are this his own stats, or also a function of being stapled with Beagle?

Not that the eye test is everything, but I would have figure he’d be decent at pushing play forward.

Those are the stats for when Motte has been on the ice as a Canuck, though about 2/3rds of his ice time is shared with Beagle. There's probably a bit of a drag-down effect from playing with Beagle, though they actually perform better together than apart when you look at expected goals for some reason.

For his entire NHL career he's at 42.5% in terms of expected goals, which really isn't all that different from his Canuck totals.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I'd actually give Motter some term at a low cap hit.

4 years at 1.5 million per.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

I could see Motte at 1.5x3. I would also explore a sign & trade. He’s played with energy these playoffs and scored some big goals this playoffs. Teams who are ready to win now will pay for that.

 

[Pip]

I'd actually give Motter some term at a low cap hit.

4 years at 1.5 million per.

why give him term?