Twenty years of Soviet Hockey: 1962 - 1982 (Index of player profiles in OP)

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
4,938
Hmmm...then what to make of Tarasov's own account of Firsov being asked to convert to midfield in "the system"? Perhaps he was only referring to the 1972 Olympics in Sapporo, when Polupanov was dropped and Kharlamov added to the unit? This may well be the case (he goes on to talk about 1972 in the citation)...and would, of course, mean that Firsov actually spent very little time in the midfield role.

That's what I would put my money on if I had to bet. Firsov was moved from LW to C in the 1971 offseason and Kharlamov took over his LW spot.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
4,938
Clean English version of Eduard Ivanov's profile on the Russian site Championat:

...
After his time with the "Chemists", he moved to Voskresensk and Krylja Sovetov where he also fit in well.

Minor correction:
It wasn't Ivanov who moved to Voskresensk, the Khimik/Chemists team did. Khimik moved from Moscow to Voskresensk, Ivanov moved from Khimik to Krylja Sovietov.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
Clean English translation of Alexander Yakushev's profile at the Russian site Championat:

In each of the first four matches of that series, Yakushev won the prize for best player (including a gold ring) awarded by a panel of Canadian hockey experts.

That's interesting. I mean, he was very good in the first four games and all, but so were Kharlamov (g1, g3 especially), Mikhailov etc. It was rather in Moscow, when Yakushev separated himself from the pack IMO. But maybe those Canadian experts immediately thought, "He's our kind of guy" or something.

Alexander finished his career with the Soviet national team in 1980, World Champion for the seventh time.

That would've been 1979, he did not play any games for the national team in 1980.

Originally Posted by Anatoli Tarasov

Yakushev did not, however, like to defend, but in my opinion no one could exploit this weakness - everyone was generally too concerned trying to stop Alexander from attacking.

I know what I'll be referring to in my rebuttal, if/when C1958 posts something about "Yakushev's superior defensive play" (or whatever it was) in the future; he's apparently the only one who's ever seen it :naughty:


I'm super-interested to see what is said about the dynamics of Mikhailov, Petrov and Kharlamov.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
It is probably the case that an important part of Chernyshev's role on the national team was mediating between Tarasov and the non-CSKA players, though it should be noted that CSKA was the chassis around which the national team was built, always providing the top lines (A-A-L, later Firsov-Polupanov-Vikulov and even later K-P-M) and top pairings for the national team during T/C's tenure there (though I'm not 100% sure about that second part...was Vasiliev on the top pairing in 1972, or was it still Ragulin - Tsygankov?).

No, I think Davydov (Dynamo) played on the top pairing a lot - with Ragulin or Kuzkin (both CSKA) or whomever.

Furthermore, I don't think there were such clear top lines before Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov - and even they became the undisputed top line only in 1972-73 (when they reunited after the 1972 SS)... or maybe Almetov's line (and some others) was that before them, but I still don't think it was ever nearly as clear as later with MPK and (of course) KLM.
 
Last edited:

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
.



I know what I'll be referring to in my rebuttal, if/when C1958 posts something about "Yakushev's superior defensive play" (or whatever it was) in the future; he's apparently the only one who's ever seen it :naughty:


I'm super-interested to see what is said about the dynamics of Mikhailov, Petrov and Kharlamov.
C1958 wasn't the only one praising Yakushev's all-round game. His all-round game was praised a few times in Sports Illustrated articles that I posted during the wingers project. I'm sure those articles were based off a limited sample of viewing, the same as C1958's opinion, however.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
C1958 wasn't the only one praising Yakushev's all-round game. His all-round game was praised a few times in Sports Illustrated articles that I posted during the wingers project. I'm sure those articles were based off a limited sample of viewing, the same as C1958's opinion, however.

Okay, but IIRC, during the Wingers project C1958 was talking like Yakushev was some kind of defensive wizard and superior to every other Russian/European player in this department - even though Yak played on the same line with (historically) far more noted two-way forward in Shadrin.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Anyone interested in an excel file containing complete Soviet scoring tables from 1961-62 to 1970-71, I have uploaded the file into my dropbox account. This is nothing more than the SIHR data (which is fragmented by team at their site) consolidated into a single table (by season) for all teams competing in the top division. A simple thing, but a necessary first step in attempting to analyze leaguewide scoring information in this period. 1963-64 has no assists data. 1968-69 and 1969-70 have assists data only for a few players. Otherwise, the data sets are complete in terms of G-A-P-PIMS data.

The file can be found here. Happy number crunching.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
Anyone interested in an excel file containing complete Soviet scoring tables from 1961-62 to 1970-71, I have uploaded the file into my dropbox account. This is nothing more than the SIHR data (which is fragmented by team at their site) consolidated into a single table (by season) for all teams competing in the top division. A simple thing, but a necessary first step in attempting to analyze leaguewide scoring information in this period. 1963-64 has no assists data. 1968-69 and 1969-70 have assists data only for a few players. Otherwise, the data sets are complete in terms of G-A-P-PIMS data.

The file can be found here. Happy number crunching.

I haven't had a time to look at it. But SIHR's data for the old European leagues is often incomplete. How does it compare to the top 10s from Russian sources that have been posted in the European reference thread on HOH?

Edit: Okay, that sounds really lazy. I'll get to it sometime this week if nobody beats me to it
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
I haven't had a time to look at it. But SIHR's data for the old European leagues is often incomplete. How does it compare to the top 10s from Russian sources that have been posted in the European reference thread on HOH?

Edit: Okay, that sounds really lazy. I'll get to it sometime this week if nobody beats me to it

The data matches what's in the established sources, but greatly expands upon it, to include scoring data from all teams in the top division (which varied from season-to-season...I had to carefully check who was where when tabulating this data) and assists for most of the seasons in question. Regarding the assists data, it matches what the Championat site has for the individual seasons, but includes the entire league rather than only the top three teams in any given season.

tl;dr - the data looks sound, and appears to come from the same source as the Championat assists data. Peter Houda, whose e-mail address is available through the SIHR site, would probably be the person to ask if you have more in-depth questions.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,163
7,299
Regina, SK
Anyone interested in an excel file containing complete Soviet scoring tables from 1961-62 to 1970-71, I have uploaded the file into my dropbox account. This is nothing more than the SIHR data (which is fragmented by team at their site) consolidated into a single table (by season) for all teams competing in the top division. A simple thing, but a necessary first step in attempting to analyze leaguewide scoring information in this period. 1963-64 has no assists data. 1968-69 and 1969-70 have assists data only for a few players. Otherwise, the data sets are complete in terms of G-A-P-PIMS data.

The file can be found here. Happy number crunching.

I made this spreadsheet in the summer, except for 1952-1992. I should have told you. :shakehead
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Soviet League scoring in the 1960's*:

1960-61 | G | A | P
Borisov | 22 | -- | 22
Almetov | 20 | -- | 20
B. Mayorov | 20 | -- | 20
Alexandrov | 19 | -- | 19
Snetkov | 19 | -- | 19
Guryshev | 19 | -- | 19
Loktev | 18 | -- | 18
Grebennikov| 18 | -- | 18
Kutakov | 18 | -- | 18
Chistovsky | 17 | -- | 17
Starshinov | 16 | -- | 16
E. Mayorov | 16 | -- | 16
Kiselev | 16 | -- | 16

1961-62 | G | A | P
B. Mayorov | 30 | 14 | 44
Groshev | 38 | 3 | 41
Paramoshkin| 28 | 9 | 37
Kiselev | 29 | 7 | 36
Tsyplakov | 28 | 7 | 35
Almetov | 30 | 4 | 34
Starshinov | 29 | 4 | 33
Chistovsky | 29 | 4 | 33
Alexandrov | 21 | 11 | 32
Yurzonov | 27 | 4 | 31
Grebennikov| 27 | 4 | 31
E. Mayorov | 24 | 7 | 31

1962-63 | G | A | P
Alexandrov | 53 | 9 | 62
B. Mayorov | 27 | 12 | 39
Paramoshkin| 25 | 10 | 35
Starshinov | 23 | 8 | 31
Kiselev | 22 | 6 | 28
L. Volkov | 22 | 6 | 28
Y. Volkov | 25 | 2 | 27
Almetov | 23 | 4 | 27
Firsov | 20 | 7 | 27
Nemchinov | 21 | 5 | 26
Groshev | 21 | 5 | 26

1963-64 | G | A | P
Almetov | 40 | -- | 40
Alexandrov | 39 | -- | 39
Firsov | 36 | -- | 36
Starshinov | 34 | -- | 34
Tsyplakov | 28 | -- | 28
Loktev | 24 | -- | 24
Senyushkin | 23 | -- | 23
Kozin | 23 | -- | 23
Groshev | 22 | -- | 22
Petukhov | 21 | -- | 21
E. Mayorov | 20 | -- | 20
Moiseev | 19 | -- | 19
Kiselev | 19 | -- | 19
B. Mayorov | 18 | -- | 18

1964-65 | G | A | P
Almetov | 26 | 11 | 37
Loktev | 23 | 13 | 36
Tsyplakov | 28 | 7 | 35
Alexandrov | 25 | 9 | 34
Firsov | 21 | 13 | 34
Paramoshin | 22 | 7 | 29
B. Mayorov | 25 | 4 | 29
Starshinov | 25 | 3 | 28
Senyushkin | 20 | 7 | 27
Volkov | 21 | 6 | 27

1965-66 | G | A | P
Firsov | 40 | 11 | 51
Alexandrov | 31 | 6 | 37
B. Mayorov | 22 | 12 | 34
Polupanov | 25 | 7 | 32
Almetov | 24 | 7 | 31
Starshinov | 23 | 8 | 31
Loktev | 16 | 14 | 30
Mishakov | 22 | 4 | 26
Moiseev | 16 | 10 | 26
Mikhailov | 18 | 8 | 26

1966-67 | G | A | P
Starshinov | 47 | 9 | 56
Firsov | 41 | 11 | 52
Zimin | 34 | 16 | 50
Polupanov | 39 | 9 | 48
B. Mayorov | 27 | 19 | 46
A. Yakushev| 34 | 11 | 45
Vikulov | 27 | 16 | 43
Fomenkov | 24 | 17 | 41
Yaroslav | 25 | 16 | 41
Panyukin | 31 | 10 | 41
Kozin | 30 | 10 | 40
Alexandrov | 26 | 12 | 38
Tsyplakov | 31 | 6 | 37
Moiseev | 20 | 16 | 36
Almetov | 23 | 12 | 35

1967-68 | G | A | P
Starshinov | 46 | 9 | 55
Firsov | 33 | 17 | 50
Zimin | 32 | 16 | 48
Mikhailov | 29 | 16 | 45
B. Mayorov | 29 | 16 | 45
Alexandrov | 23 | 21 | 44
Vikulov | 29 | 12 | 41
Panytukin | 24 | 13 | 37
Kozin | 30 | 6 | 36
Polupanov | 28 | 7 | 35
Fomenkov | 20 | 15 | 35

1968-69 | G | A | P
A. Yakushev| 50 | -- | 50
Starshinov | 40 | -- | 40
Kharlamov | 37 | -- | 37
Mikhailov | 36 | -- | 36
Firsov | 28 | -- | 28
Petrov | 27 | -- | 27
Chekalkin | 27 | -- | 27
Rasko | 26 | -- | 26
Yurzinov | 25 | -- | 25
Maltsev | 24 | -- | 24

1969-70 | G | A | P
Petrov | 51 | -- | 51
Mikhailov | 40 | -- | 40
Martynyuk | 36 | -- | 36
Starshinov | 34 | -- | 34
A. Yakushev| 33 | -- | 33
Firsov | 33 | -- | 33
Kharlamov | 33 | -- | 33
Syrtsov | 33 | -- | 33
Maltsev | 32 | -- | 32
Zhuchok | 30 | -- | 30

*I generally break these lists off to include only the top-10, but if there is a "player of interest" (such as B. Mayorov or Starshinov) just below the top-10, I have expanded the lists a bit to include them.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Crunching some Vs2 numbers from this data. First a couple of points:

- the 1960-61 to 1969-70 timeframe captures basically the entire peaks of the following players: Veniamin Alexandrov, Boris Mayorov, Alexander Almetov, Vyacheslav Starshinov and Anatoli Firsov. This is not perfect...Alexandrov and Mayorov both have single good seasons in the late 50s, and Firsov played well into the early 70s, though he was clearly past his peak (at least in terms of domestic league scoring) by then.

- this is meant only to be a Soviet-league-in-the-1960s-internal scoring comparison. Any resemblance to VsX numbers for post-consolidation NHL scoring is just a matter of formatting. I know that any intelligent person can understand this, but I want to make it completely clear.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alexandrov:
159, 100, 100, 95, 94, 88, 78
Total: 714
7-season average: 102

Firsov:
138, 100, 100, 94, 92, 83, 70
Total: 677
7-season average: 96.7

Mayorov:
107, 100, 100, 92, 90, 88, 81
Total: 658
7-season average: 94

Starshinov:
110, 108, 100, 87, 85, 84, 80
Total: 654
7-season average: 93.4

Almetov:
103, 100, 100, 84, 83, 69, 67
Total: 606
7-season average: 86.6

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes on the above:

- Alexandrov, Mayorov and Almetov benefit from somewhat softer competition over their first couple of peak seasons (Firsov didn't really start peaking until 1963-64), and Firsov and Starshinov are hurt by stiffer competition in their last couple of peak seasons when the K-P-M line stars started to peak.

- Alexandrov, Mayorov and Firsov are hurt by the lack of complete assist records, and by the generally quite stingy Soviet league assist tabulation, in general. Starshinov is clearly helped by these factors, while the effect on Almetov is probably neutral.

- so, in general, Firsov is disadvantaged twice by the above, and Almetov is advantaged, while the net effect on Alexandrov, Mayorov and Starshinov is roughly neutral, I'd guess.

- I don't doubt that Firsov was the better player, but how far behind him can Alexandrov really be?

- these numbers seem to reinforce the claim in the Championat bio that Boris Mayorov was, in fact, the best player on the famous Spartak line of the 60's.

- I wanted to fit Loktev into this analysis, but he sadly didn't have enough relevant good seasons in this timeframe.
 

Sanf

Registered User
Sep 8, 2012
1,948
902
Soviet League scoring in the 1960's*:

1960-61 | G | A | P
Borisov | 22 | -- | 22
Almetov | 20 | -- | 20
B. Mayorov | 20 | -- | 20
Alexandrov | 19 | -- | 19
Snetkov | 19 | -- | 19
Guryshev | 19 | -- | 19
Loktev | 18 | -- | 18
Grebennikov| 18 | -- | 18
Kutakov | 18 | -- | 18
Chistovsky | 17 | -- | 17
Starshinov | 16 | -- | 16
E. Mayorov | 16 | -- | 16
Kiselev | 16 | -- | 16

(Nitpicking). I believe that officially Yuri Paramoshkin was the leading scorer that year with 23 goals. He played the second part of the season in the weaker mid-pool (7-12). Paramoshkin was selected to the All-Star team so I guess the quality difference didn´t matter that much to them. Oleg Korolenko was also selected from that 7-12 group. (Some sources say that Paramoshkin, Korolenko and Borisov all scored 22 goals and shared the scoring lead).
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
You really shouldn't conflate pre-1963 numbers with post-1963 numbers. The change in the quality of the Soviet team happened very quickly. Pre-1963, they really weren't any better than Sweden or Canadian amateur teams

Also the all-star teams support Starshinov as the best member of his line, right?
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
(Nitpicking). I believe that officially Yuri Paramoshkin was the leading scorer that year with 23 goals. He played the second part of the season in the weaker mid-pool (7-12). Paramoshkin was selected to the All-Star team so I guess the quality difference didn´t matter that much to them. Oleg Korolenko was also selected from that 7-12 group. (Some sources say that Paramoshkin, Korolenko and Borisov all scored 22 goals and shared the scoring lead).

I only took the players from the six teams who competed in the championship pool after the initial round so as to compare apples-to-apples, but yeah, I know Paramoshkin scored 23 for Elektrostal.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
You really shouldn't conflate pre-1963 numbers with post-1963 numbers. The change in the quality of the Soviet team happened very quickly. Pre-1963, they really weren't any better than Sweden or Canadian amateur teams.

I'm well aware of what was going on at the international level, but we also shouldn't "conflate" that with what was happening in the Soviet league at the time, where the change was surely quite a bit more gradual. At any rate, roster turnover in favor of the generation we're looking at is what seems to have made the biggest difference.

1960 Olympics Soviet national team:

Yuri Tsitsinov
Vladimir Grebennikov
Mikhail Bychkov
Viktor Pryazhnikov
Nikolai Karpov
Nikolai Puchkov
Yevgeny Groshev
Viktor Yakushev
Stanislav Petukhov
Yevgeny Yorkin
Nikolai Sologubov
Yuri Baulin
Aleksandr Almetov
Konstantin Loktev
Veniamin Alexandrov

Genrikh Sidorenkov
Alfred Kuchevski

1961 WEC-A Soviet national team:

MAYOROV, Boris
LOKTEV, Konstantin
STARSHINOV, Vyacheslav
ALEXANDROV, Veniamin

SNETKOV, Nikolai
ALMETOV, Alexander
SIDORENKOV, Genrikh
MAYOROV, Yevgeny
TREGUBOV, Ivan
YAKUSHEV, Viktor
RAGULIN, Alexander
SOLOGUBOV, Nikolai

YURZINOV, Vladimir
TSYPLAKOV, Viktor
BREZHNEV, Vladimir
CHINOV, Vladimir
KONOVALENKO, Viktor

1963 WEC-A Soviet national team:

YURZINOV, Vladimir
ALMETOV, Alexander
STARSHINOV, Vyacheslav
ALEXANDROV, Veniamin
MAYOROV, Boris
PETUKHOV, Stanislav
VOLKOV, Yuri
MAYOROV, Yevgeny
YAKUSHEV, Viktor
IVANOV, Eduard
RAGULIN, Alexander
DAVYDOV, Vitali
KUZKIN, Viktor
SOLOGUBOV, Nikolai
PARAMOSHKIN, Yuri
KONOVALENKO, Viktor
ZAITSEV, Boris

I have highlited the players from the 1960 and 1961 teams who were still on the national team in 1963. What we see is pretty clear: massive turnover on the blueline and in goal was the biggest roster-based reason for the turnaround from 1961 to 1963. This is also reflected in the team statistics. The Soviet national team led the 1961 WEC-A tournament in scoring with 51 goals (2nd place Canada had 45), but their defense gave up 20 goals to team Canada's 11 against. The Soviet #1 goaltender that year was Vladimir Chinov, who played 320 minutes to Viktor Konovalenko's 100.

Fast forward to 1963...the Soviet national team with mostly the same forwards is again the high scorer in the WEC-A tournament, this time with 50 goals, but now the defense only gives up 9 goals against. New faces on the defense: Kuzkin, Davydov and Ivanov (basically 3/4ths of the team's defensemen, as Sologubov only played one game). Konovalenko now plays all 400 minutes of the team's games in the tournament.

So no, I would not say that there was a sudden, massive improvement in the quality of Soviet forward play from 1961 to 1963. There was, indeed, a sudden massive improvement at the national team level, but it was on the defensive end.

Also the all-star teams support Starshinov as the best member of his line, right?

They support that he was the best Soviet league center, with only Almetov as meaningful competition at that position before Petrov showed up. Meanwhile, the left wing was packed with arguably the three best forwards of the era in Firsov, Alexandrov and Mayorov. NHL all-star awards "tell us" that Rick Martin was better than Darryl Sittler, as well, but we know better.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
Soviet League scoring in the 1960's*:

1968-69 | G | A | P
A. Yakushev| 50 | -- | 50
Starshinov | 40 | -- | 40
Kharlamov | 37 | -- | 37
Mikhailov | 36 | -- | 36
Firsov | 28 | -- | 28
Petrov | 27 | -- | 27
Chekalkin | 27 | -- | 27
Rasko | 26 | -- | 26
Yurzinov | 25 | -- | 25
Maltsev | 24 | -- | 24

1969-70 | G | A | P
Petrov | 51 | -- | 51
Mikhailov | 40 | -- | 40
Martynyuk | 36 | -- | 36
Starshinov | 34 | -- | 34
A. Yakushev| 33 | -- | 33
Firsov | 33 | -- | 33
Kharlamov | 33 | -- | 33
Syrtsov | 33 | -- | 33
Maltsev | 32 | -- | 32
Zhuchok | 30 | -- | 30

Those missing assists for the 1968-69 and 1969-70 seasons still puzzle me; for example, the biographies on Pelletier's 1972 site have Mikhailov's, Petrov's and Kharlamov's (at least theirs) assist numbers for those seasons:

Mikhailov: http://www.1972summitseries.com/mikhailov.html
1968-69 CSKA Moscow 42 36 14 50 14
1969-70 CSKA Moscow 44 40 15 55 22

Petrov: http://www.1972summitseries.com/petrov.html
CSKA Moscow 1968-69 39 27 18 45 -
CSKA Moscow 1969-70 43 51 21 72

Kharlamov: http://www.1972summitseries.com/kharlamov.html
CSKA Moscow 1968-69 42 37 12 49 24
CSKA Moscow 1969-70 33 33 10 43 16

Eliteprospects have those too, although they're not always an exact match.
There probably wouldn't be any huge changes anyway, since pre-1970s the assists were so stingily awarded, and wasn't it until 1970 or so that the player who scored the most goals was the Soviet league scoring champion?

They support that he was the best Soviet league center, with only Almetov as meaningful competition at that position before Petrov showed up. Meanwhile, the left wing was packed with arguably the three best forwards of the era in Firsov, Alexandrov and Mayorov. NHL all-star awards "tell us" that Rick Martin was better than Darryl Sittler, as well, but we know better.

Maltsev too, and he peaked earlier than Petrov. (If/when he played Center on Dynamo already in the 1960s.). Polupanov was pretty good for a few years in the late 1960s, though his linemates Firsov and Vikulov were obviously better players, and had far better careers.

- the 1960-61 to 1969-70 timeframe captures basically the entire peaks of the following players: Veniamin Alexandrov, Boris Mayorov, Alexander Almetov, Vyacheslav Starshinov and Anatoli Firsov. This is not perfect...Alexandrov and Mayorov both have single good seasons in the late 50s, and Firsov played well into the early 70s, though he was clearly past his peak (at least in terms of domestic league scoring) by then.

I'd really like to know why Firsov's domestic scoring (and play?) don't quite seem to correlate with his international scoring/accomplishments in 1969-1971. There is little doubt that he was still their best player internationally back then (1969-71 WHC All-Star LW over e.g. young Kharlamov, 1971 IIHF Directorate best forward, always one of the top scorers). It was only at the 1972 Olympics, when Kharlamov by all means surpassed him.
 
Last edited:

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
Those missing assists for the 1968-69 and 1969-70 seasons still puzzle me; for example, the biographies on Pelletier's 1972 site have Mikhailov's, Petrov's and Kharlamov's (at least theirs) assist numbers for those seasons

SIHR has assist totals for the K-P-M line (and for a few others) for those seasons, as well, but because the assist records are horribly incomplete, I leave assists out when generating the scoring leaders table, as I believe it was also done in the Soviet league official records. I briefly considered trying to do something like "reconstructed assists" (basically awarding everybody assists for the years where they are missing based on career assists/game rates), but decided it would introduce more complications into the analysis than are necessary.
 

Sturminator

Love is a duel
Feb 27, 2002
9,894
1,070
West Egg, New York
No, I think Davydov (Dynamo) played on the top pairing a lot - with Ragulin or Kuzkin (both CSKA) or whomever.

Through 1967, I've never seen any pairings other than Ragulin - Ivanov and Kuzkin - Davydov. I know that Tsygankov was paired with Ragulin when he came up to the national team. What I don't know is who Ragulin's regular partner was from 1968-70 when neither of those guys was on the national team. Was it Davydov?
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
4,938
What I don't know is who Ragulin's regular partner was from 1968-70 when neither of those guys was on the national team. Was it Davydov?

He didn't have one regular partner from 1968-1970. The guys he was mostly paired with: 1968 Viktor Blinov, 1969 Vladimir Lutchenko, 1970 Igor Romishvesky.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
Through 1967, I've never seen any pairings other than Ragulin - Ivanov and Kuzkin - Davydov. I know that Tsygankov was paired with Ragulin when he came up to the national team. What I don't know is who Ragulin's regular partner was from 1968-70 when neither of those guys was on the national team. Was it Davydov?

No, actually it seems that Davydov and Ragulin played very rarely together. Although IIRC, Kharlamov mentions something about "Ragulin-Davydov pairing" in his book, but it could be that he is talking about some lone tournament or something got lost in the translation.

Anyhoo, I think it is very difficult to determine what the actual top pairing(s) were in the 1960s, for example, or if even such concept as 'top pairing' or 'top line' (and '2nd line' etc) existed in Soviet hockey back then. The forward lines just preferably played with certain defense pairings, like Firsov-Polupanov-Vikulov likely with Ragulin-X.
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,814
763
Helsinki, Finland
No, actually it seems that Davydov and Ragulin played very rarely together. Although IIRC, Kharlamov mentions something about "Ragulin-Davydov pairing" in his book, but it could be that he is talking about some lone tournament or something got lost in the translation.

Checked it, and he actually says that "For me, it was easiest to play with Vitaly Davydov and Alexander Ragulin", specifically referring to the 1969 WHC. So he isn't saying that they played as a pair per se, but it could be interpreted so. Above he mentions that Kuzkin (Davydov's most common partner [from CSKA] back then) was injured, and couldn't play in the final games, so it was an exception. From Chidlovski's Hockey CCCP International, one gets the impression that Davydov and Ragulin were a defensive pair in the latter part of the tournament.

When I've watched Team USSR games from the late 1960s, it would appear to me that basically any forward line could start a game, depending on a game/tournament; sometimes it was Starshinov's line, sometimes Firsov's (i.e. Polupanov's) etc. As for dmen, usually you would see Ragulin with his partner in the starting lineup, but not necessarily.
 
Last edited:

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
4,938
Checked it, and he actually says that "For me, it was easiest to play with Vitaly Davydov and Alexander Ragulin", specifically referring to the 1969 WHC. So he isn't saying that they played as a pair per se, but it could be interpreted so. Above he mentions that Kuzkin (Davydov's most common partner [from CSKA] back then) was injured, and couldn't play in the final games, so it was an exception.

I looked it up and sure enough, Ragulin did play with Davydov in three of the last four games indeed: against Sweden (3-2, 3/24), against Czechoslovakia (3-4, 3/28) and against Canada (4-2, 3/30). In the other games it was Lutchenko - Ragulin.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,541
4,938
Soviet MVP Voting Results - Top 5

72-73 | |
1 | V. Kharlamov | 107
2 | V. Petrov | 104
3 | V. Tretiak | 40
4 | B. Mikhailov | 34
5 | V. Vasiliev | 10

Source: http://www.passionhockey.com/Archives.html

Now that I got my hands on the original Russian source of the voting results, it turns out the French site omitted Aleksandr Yakushev from the 1972-1973 record: Yakushev earned 46 points in that poll and thus finished 3rd, ahead of Tretyak.

79-80 | |
1 | S. Makarov | 156
2 | V. Krutov | 68
3 | B. Mikhailov | 49
4 | A. Maltsev* | 38
5 | V. Vasiliev | 27

*Chidlovski has different results for 79-80: Chidlovski results have Vasiliev 4th and Kharlamov 5th. Maltsev is completely missing from their top 20.

Chidlovski got that one wrong. Maltsev is indeed 4th, Vasilyev 5th and Kharlamov 6th.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad