News Article: Troy Mann relieved of duties.

[Agent Zub]

You think new ownership is going to come in and talk to the former minor league coach to make an assessment of the organization? What reality do you live in lol?

what?
he is (was) one of the top ranking individuals in hockey ops, guy who literally developed our prospects.

GM, AGM, NHL Coach, AHL Coach. no shit they are going to talk to him, they are going to talk to everyone and see if they are worth keeping on.

it is you who is being naïve here.

 

[Micklebot]

You think new ownership is going to come in and talk to the former minor league coach to make an assessment of the organization? What reality do you live in lol?

I mean, a new POHO would be the one who evaluates things top to bottom not ownership, I think they'd want to talk to all the key personnel in the org, where does that stop, idk, but it's not too long of a list even if you include key figures running the minor league team.

I also think his point was Mann is out to avoid him being in the org when that happens, not that evaluating the org would include reaching out to ex employees.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I never saw that Troy began the process to defend himself Tuesday, never heard that in the podcast. I guess he and his camp will be fighting those allegations, which seemed iffy from the get go after looking at it. More to come it would seem.

“17. There is word former Belleville head coach Troy Mann began the process Tuesday of defending himself against allegations of impropriety.”

32 Thoughts: Ideas to fix All-Star weekend for 2024 in Toronto

In this week's collection of 32 Thoughts, Elliotte Friedman shares some ideas to improve All-Star weekend, gives the latest on some top trade candidates, Marty Walsh set to become new NHLPA leader and more.

www.sportsnet.ca

Not sure when he defended himself against allegations of impropriety. As far as I know there were no allegations of impropriety published at that time.
I hope he defends himself to the extent possible. Could get interesting between Hanna/TSN and her sources if there is no substantiation forthcoming vs the extent Troy's career could be damaged.

 

[Micklebot]

Not sure when he defended himself against allegations of impropriety. As far as I know there were no allegations of impropriety published at that time.
I hope he defends himself to the extent possible. Could get interesting between Hanna/TSN and her sources if there is no substantiation forthcoming vs the extent Troy's career could be damaged.

That article is from Tuesday, so we'll after Hanna's tweet, no?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That article is from Tuesday, so we'll after Hanna's tweet, no?

Yah I was thinking his podcast from Tuesday Jan 31 . Hanna's tweet was on the Feb 3rd.
I took it as he was defending himself before the tweet .. So it is probably Tuesday Feb 7 and that some how these guys got wind of that.
I don't know I probably took it wrong again.

 

[BankStreetParade]

what?
he is (was) one of the top ranking individuals in hockey ops, guy who literally developed our prospects.

GM, AGM, NHL Coach, AHL Coach. no shit they are going to talk to him, they are going to talk to everyone and see if they are worth keeping on.

it is you who is being naïve here.

He took his marching orders from the GM and AGM with some relative input from what he sees in real time. He's not anything resembling one of the "top ranking individuals in hockey ops". He's not even the head of player development, let alone the "guy who literally developed our prospects". His job is to implement the head coach's system and to take direction on prospect development. That's kind of it.

You've become so deluded into believing this great reckoning is coming and you seem to spend all your time writing revenge porn about Dorion but that's not what's going to happen.

Yes the next people are going to evaluate the organization. No they're not going to give consideration to the word of a fired minor league coach over that of the people who make the decisions and run the organization. Enough with these f***ing bizarre fantasies you have of Dorion being, like, publicly humiliated on his way out, downtrodden and wailing as he's escorted out of the building to a throng of villagers ready to throw rotten food at him. Or whatever f***ed up fantasies you're constantly obsessing about.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I mean, a new POHO would be the one who evaluates things top to bottom not ownership, I think they'd want to talk to all the key personnel in the org, where does that stop, idk, but it's not too long of a list even if you include key figures running the minor league team.

I also think his point was Mann is out to avoid him being in the org when that happens, not that evaluating the org would include reaching out to ex employees.

Ok, I mean we're being pretty pedantic here. Yes, I doubt the owner(s) have the skillsets (or time) suited to rigorous organizational evaluations of a professional hockey team and its operations. And of course they're going to hire someone who will do that work and make recommendations to them.

Even in the hypothetical scenario that's bolded, whether the guy is fired or not, the new regime can still reach out to him and speak to him if they want to. If the new regime says "boy, that Troy Mann's got a hell of a mind for hockey, we should have him in the fold", why would his employment status with the team matter? What @Agent Zub is saying is a totally dreamt up fantasy by someone who wants this like primal revenge enacted against Dorion.

 

[Agent Zub]

I think the

He took his marching orders from the GM and AGM with some relative input from what he sees in real time. He's not anything resembling one of the "top ranking individuals in hockey ops". He's not even the head of player development, let alone the "guy who literally developed our prospects". His job is to implement the head coach's system and to take direction on prospect development. That's kind of it.

You've become so deluded into believing this great reckoning is coming and you seem to spend all your time writing revenge porn about Dorion but that's not what's going to happen.

Yes the next people are going to evaluate the organization. No they're not going to give consideration to the word of a fired minor league coach over that of the people who make the decisions and run the organization. Enough with these f***ing bizarre fantasies you have of Dorion being, like, publicly humiliated on his way out, downtrodden and wailing as he's escorted out of the building to a throng of villagers ready to throw rotten food at him. Or whatever f***ed up fantasies you're constantly obsessing about.

i literally don't care lol i have no input on the result so why should i care that much? and dorion is fired anyway. the reckoning is coming, how can you not see that? unless they can prove their value to new ownership, they are gone.

again that you don't think they would talk to the longstanding AHL coach in evaluations is an indictment on your view of reality, not mine.

any ownership worth its salt would do that. if you wouldn't...

i don't even know what to say to that last bit lol. i have never imagined something like that. what i do care about is the future of the Senators, and yes in my opinion our future is brighter with Dorion replaced, and that is going to happen 100 percent, so what do i care if he's egged on his way out or led out graciously. dorion is a non entity in a month or two.

 

[Micklebot]

Ok, I mean we're being pretty pedantic here. Yes, I doubt the owner(s) have the skillsets (or time) suited to rigorous organizational evaluations of a professional hockey team and its operations. And of course they're going to hire someone who will do that work and make recommendations to them.

Even in the hypothetical scenario that's bolded, whether the guy is fired or not, the new regime can still reach out to him and speak to him if they want to. If the new regime says "boy, that Troy Mann's got a hell of a mind for hockey, we should have him in the fold", why would his employment status with the team matter? What @Agent Zub is saying is a totally dreamt up fantasy by someone who wants this like primal revenge enacted against Dorion.

Maybe I'm misreading Zubs post, but what I was understanding is Dorion/Bowness' wanted to clear the deck of decenting opinions for when the internal review occurs, so firing Mann males it less likely he's going to be contacted

Where imo it falls apart is they've left his brother in the fold, which uh... Seems like it would backfire.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think the


i literally don't care lol i have no input on the result so why should i care that much? and dorion is fired anyway. the reckoning is coming, how can you not see that? unless they can prove their value to new ownership, they are gone.

Didn't say that.

again that you don't think they would talk to the longstanding AHL coach in evaluations is an indictment on your view of reality, not mine.

Didn't say that.

any ownership worth its salt would do that. if you wouldn't...

i don't even know what to say to that last bit lol. i have never imagined something like that. what i do care about is the future of the Senators, and yes in my opinion our future is brighter with Dorion replaced, and that is going to happen 100 percent, so what do i care if he's egged on his way out or led out graciously. dorion is a non entity in a month or two.

Maybe it's your absurdly obsessive posting about the guy that makes people think you're indulging in a revenge fantasy? Maybe it's intentionally misunderstanding people so you can continue to make the same points over and over and over again that makes people think that? Case in point, the above 2 parts of your reply that I quoted.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Maybe I'm misreading Zubs post, but what I was understanding is Dorion/Bowness' wanted to clear the deck of decenting opinions for when the internal review occurs, so firing Mann males it less likely he's going to be contacted

Where imo it falls apart is they've left his brother in the fold, which uh... Seems like it would backfire.

Even so, the initial point makes zero f***ing sense. Again, if you're doing a retrospective evaluation of the organization, what does the minor league coach's employment status matter unless he gets hired by another team and they refuse to let you speak to him? Isn't that the point of an organizational review? You speak to lots of people and you give weight to the words of the people who are in charge of decision-making. No one goes into an organization and speaks to a junior level manager (as far as organizational hierarchies go) to base their assessments on. If the new ownership hires a POHO and he/she conducts an organizational review and they give weight to the minor league coach's assessment of things over that of the people who actually make decisions, then we're f***ed.

 

[Agent Zub]

Maybe I'm misreading Zubs post, but what I was understanding is Dorion/Bowness' wanted to clear the deck of decenting opinions for when the internal review occurs, so firing Mann males it less likely he's going to be contacted

Where imo it falls apart is they've left his brother in the fold, which uh... Seems like it would backfire.

yea, that is a weak spot in the theory but perhaps it is about thinning the herd so there is only one Mann vs two, or even that the brothers weren't on the same page.

maybe it is that both manns were planning a coup, and Troy is the one they could fire more easily as he might have actually done something wrong.

maybe we find out in a year or two.

 

[Agent Zub]

Even so, the initial point makes zero f***ing sense. Again, if you're doing a retrospective evaluation of the organization, what does the minor league coach's employment status matter unless he gets hired by another team and they refuse to let you speak to him? Isn't that the point of an organizational review? You speak to lots of people and you give weight to the words of the people who are in charge of decision-making. No one goes into an organization and speaks to a junior level manager (as far as organizational hierarchies go) to base their assessments on. If the new ownership hires a POHO and he/she conducts an organizational review and they give weight to the minor league coach's assessment of things over that of the people who actually make decisions, then we're f***ed.

why on earth would you not get the opinion of the people who work underneath the ones making the decisions, when you want to evaluate the ones making the decisions? who else are you going to ask? and the poho will give more weight to the peoples whose arguments make more sense to them. they are all on the chopping block.

and it wasn't just that Mann was fired. he was fired extremely abruptly and with a nasty rumor that he was selling out the team. sure seems like a way to discredit someone.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He took his marching orders from the GM and AGM with some relative input from what he sees in real time. He's not anything resembling one of the "top ranking individuals in hockey ops". He's not even the head of player development, let alone the "guy who literally developed our prospects". His job is to implement the head coach's system and to take direction on prospect development. That's kind of it.

You've become so deluded into believing this great reckoning is coming and you seem to spend all your time writing revenge porn about Dorion but that's not what's going to happen.

Yes the next people are going to evaluate the organization. No they're not going to give consideration to the word of a fired minor league coach over that of the people who make the decisions and run the organization. Enough with these f***ing bizarre fantasies you have of Dorion being, like, publicly humiliated on his way out, downtrodden and wailing as he's escorted out of the building to a throng of villagers ready to throw rotten food at him. Or whatever f***ed up fantasies you're constantly obsessing about.

You seem more bothered and pissed off by the suggestion than anyone. It is not always revenge fantasy, it's just hyperbole. Some people don't have faith in his ability to do the job effectively and are excited about change, and that's a pretty damn respectable position considering what we've seen out of Dorion's up and down tenure.

Even so, the initial point makes zero f***ing sense. Again, if you're doing a retrospective evaluation of the organization, what does the minor league coach's employment status matter unless he gets hired by another team and they refuse to let you speak to him? Isn't that the point of an organizational review? You speak to lots of people and you give weight to the words of the people who are in charge of decision-making. No one goes into an organization and speaks to a junior level manager (as far as organizational hierarchies go) to base their assessments on. If the new ownership hires a POHO and he/she conducts an organizational review and they give weight to the minor league coach's assessment of things over that of the people who actually make decisions, then we're f***ed.

Aren't they going to want more than the current guys angle though? They're trying to assess if the people making the decisions should or shouldn't continue making them, so by the same token, are they going to give all the weight to what Dorion & his right hand man have to say and only talk to them? What would be the point of that? "Ya new owners, we love the work we've done, we think we're awesome and think we should stay", seems really productive.

 

[Tuna99]

My guess is Trent would like to stay and play a role within a re-invigorated structure and experience the fresh energy new ownership will bring while being the guy who gets to see through the unfinished business and who's notes from yesterday are valued.

Just as plausible, if not more.

And aren't you one to crap on our drafting record? Hard to say "Trent Mann would be a huge lose for the team" when consensus around here is that we are a below average drafting team.

I like our drafting, I think Ottawa overrates their prospects a bit (like Sokolov, Thomson) but I hope Trent Mann stays - but with his brother being fired you could see if he was looking outside the organization for another opportunity with perhaps more money and security

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Ice-Tray]

Look at you go in the Twitterverse!!!

 

[Tuna99]

Funny, that was the view inside the Ottawa fanbase as well

 

[Micklebot]

Paraphrasing here, but

-Surprising is an understatement, shocking

-Texts from NHL GM's and execs around the league saying what the heck is going on.

-He is viewed, not was but is viewed as an excellent coach and an pencilled in by a number of GM's as NHL HC prospect

-mann has the respect of a number of former players now in the NHL that he coached.

But some around here saying he was always overated by sens fans, nothing to see here, just an AHL firing.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Paraphrasing here, but

-Surprising is an understatement, shocking

-Texts from NHL GM's and execs around the league saying what the heck is going on.

-He is viewed, not was but is viewed as an excellent coach and an pencilled in by a number of GM's as NHL HC prospect

-mann has the respect of a number of former players now in the NHL that he coached.

But some around here saying he was always overated by sens fans, nothing to see here, just an AHL firing.

Allegations are just that
Coaches talk all the time.
Sharing of intelligence .. no evidence of that but he hadn't really dug into it
Dealt with challenging times with the BSens... limited roster because of lower budget. Look at the players that came through the system.
Troy Mann has the respect of a number of NHL players.
A very positive well deserved comment on Troy Mann

It seems to pss off some people someone like Dregs there would have such a positive statement on Troy Mann because of the dim light it might shine on Pierre Dorion.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Paraphrasing here, but

-Surprising is an understatement, shocking

-Texts from NHL GM's and execs around the league saying what the heck is going on.

-He is viewed, not was but is viewed as an excellent coach and an pencilled in by a number of GM's as NHL HC prospect

-mann has the respect of a number of former players now in the NHL that he coached.

But some around here saying he was always overated by sens fans, nothing to see here, just an AHL firing.

It was just an AHL firing though, what does any of the above matter in that respect.

Being fired as a coach doesn’t mean everyone hates you and you are a bad coach that will never coach again, far from it in most cases. The Sens still likely have respect for the guy and think he’s a good coach, just not a good fit for them at this point.

It’s all about fit in the end. All the noise is about something Hanna tweeted, Bowness talked about fit and a divergence of synergy over time as the reason for relieving him of his duties, while still paying him.

Troy may defend himself at some point, but it won’t be based on what the official team stance was.

 

[Tuna99]

Allegations are just that
Coaches talk all the time.
Sharing of intelligence .. no evidence of that but he hadn't really dug into it
Dealt with challenging times with the BSens... limited roster because of lower budget. Look at the players that came through the system.
Troy Mann has the respect of a number of NHL players.
A very positive well deserved comment on Troy Mann

It seems to pss off some people someone like Dregs there would have such a positive statement on Troy Mann because of the dim light it might shine on Pierre Dorion.

But why is it always everyone else’s fault - why is to EK’s fault, why was it Dave a Cameron’s fault, why was it Alfie’s fault, why is it Claire Hanna’s fault?

Why isn’t ever the GM’s fault for having a stank diaper on for 5 years and no one asks if it’s time for a diaper change?

Dorion is out of his league as a GM, he can’t even fire an AHL coach without it blowing up in his face. I could fire Troy Mann and people would think I’m a good guy and Troy Mann an even better person - not the team is getting sued.

It’s incompetence Compounded by stupidly with an coating of immaturity

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Sens fan still dealing with Melnyk PTSD. The AHL coach got canned. Who cares.

Apparently the best sports network in the country lol. And I would ALMOST agree until the organization management put its foot in its mouth like it always does

 

[Agent Zub]

wonder what the tally is of the players who respect Mann vs Dorion

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Funny, that was the view inside the Ottawa fanbase as well

It is the view of many… definitely a good coach. It is why he had the job for so long.

Never heard anyone report he was a bad coach. He wasn’t fired for being a bad coach.

I did hear he went a little rogue though….