Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[The Great Weal]

I won't argue about Timmins' draft record. You know I'm not a fan of his almost decade long drought.

I can appreciate however the improvement since 2016, though I think his team isn't what this club should strive for considering its budget and restrictions on the FA market i.e. we should a top3-5 drafting team.

2016 has produced both Sergachev and Mete, which is excellent.
The players since then have, for once since the 2007, trended in the right direction. Fleury is already a regular.

I don't think it's enough, but it's not the disaster it used to be.

As far as Hughes goes, I'm pretty sure you had him as an option at 3, but didn't have him at three, like most people aside from Boisvert, he actually ranked him no.1 over Dahlin. It doesn't matter though, Hughes was one of around 7 options that were legitimate number 3 candidates.

Sergachev was great(although not McAvoy great) but I see very little improvement. Dont think we will ever be successful when we draft by need to be honest. Timmins basically said he is only going for LHD after the first round. He did the same thing with Romanov when McIsaac got taken. He didnt go next on an overall next, he went next on a defenseman list because we needed dmen. Unless we get some home run picks(not talking about good picks like Mete, I'm talking about good/superstar players) this method will yield very little results. It's basically the same as when he drafted by size in 2013 except not as awful.

 

[jackeymoon]

Trevor Timmins is legitimately the most overrated scout in the NHL

 

[davey999]

Trevor Timmins is legitimately the most overrated scout in the NHL

Absolutely agree.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

He sucks. #1 reason for the Habs problems. He had one good year when he selected Pacioretty ans Subban. That was 12 years ago. He's good at convincing gms to keep him though.

 

[groovejuice]

He sucks. #1 reason for the Habs problems. He had one good year when he selected Pacioretty ans Subban. That was 12 years ago. He's good at convincing gms to keep him though.

Timmins has not been hands on in scouting for years. Eric Crawford is Pro scouting and Shane Churla is Amateur Scouting.

 

[Scintillating10]

I won't argue about Timmins' draft record. You know I'm not a fan of his almost decade long drought.

I can appreciate however the improvement since 2016, though I think his team isn't what this club should strive for considering its budget and restrictions on the FA market i.e. we should a top3-5 drafting team.

2016 has produced both Sergachev and Mete, which is excellent.
The players since then have, for once since the 2007, trended in the right direction. Fleury is already a regular.

I don't think it's enough, but it's not the disaster it used to be.

As far as Hughes goes, I'm pretty sure you had him as an option at 3, but didn't have him at three, like most people aside from Boisvert, he actually ranked him no.1 over Dahlin. It doesn't matter though, Hughes was one of around 7 options that were legitimate number 3 candidates.

If it was up to me Trevor Timmins would not run the draft. Not the first round anyway. Timmins has run the draft for 17 years. That is 17 first round picks. Out of the 17 first round picks only 4 have lived up to expectations. The jury is still out on 3 of them, so Timmins has scored on 4 of 14 picks. A 35% success rate. Considering he has drafted inside the top 5 on 3 different years and inside the top 10 another time. Puts him well below first round average.

Of those 14 picks 6 were total busts and 4 were disappoints. Tinordi, Schebak, McCarron, Fisher, Leblanc, Chipchura all busted. While Beaulieu, Juulsen, Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk never lived up to expectations. Some will argue Kostitsyn is a bust also because he was picked in one of best drafts ever. Pretty hard to miss drafting in top 10 in a great draft.

Yes, McCarron and Juulsen are still with the organization but I can't see them being much more than filler players. Juulsen just no offense there, have him maxxing out as bottom pairing defenseman. McCarron a fringe NHL tops.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I've never had the problem with Timmins that most people have as I believe the issue has been with development.

That being said for the past few years, I've said they should fire him too because I don't want any relics left of this era of utter mediocrity.

 

[euhchepas]

If it was up to me Trevor Timmins would not run the draft. Not the first round anyway. Timmins has run the draft for 17 years. That is 17 first round picks. Out of the 17 first round picks only 4 have lived up to expectations. The jury is still out on 3 of them, so Timmins has scored on 4 of 14 picks. A 35% success rate. Considering he has drafted inside the top 5 on 3 different years and inside the top 10 another time. Puts him well below first round average.

Of those 14 picks 6 were total busts and 4 were disappoints. Tinordi, Schebak, McCarron, Fisher, Leblanc, Chipchura all busted. While Beaulieu, Juulsen, Kostitsyn, Galchenyuk never lived up to expectations. Some will argue Kostitsyn is a bust also because he was picked in one of best drafts ever. Pretty hard to miss drafting in top 10 in a great draft.

Yes, McCarron and Juulsen are still with the organization but I can't see them being much more than filler players. Juulsen just no offense there, have him maxxing out as bottom pairing defenseman. McCarron a fringe NHL tops.

you should really look at the other teams succes, Tampa Bay who is regarded has one of the best drafting team isn't that better

Tampa Bay in the same span of time has Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevski, Drouin and Deangelo. That's a 1oa 2oa and 3oa an 2 mid rounders.
3 servicable nhlers in connoly namestnikov and howden
5 complete bust

5/13=38% and they had 2 litteraly can't miss players at 1 and 2

 

[Scintillating10]

you should really look at the other teams succes, Tampa Bay who is regarded has one of the best drafting team isn't that better

Tampa Bay in the same span of time has Stamkos, Hedman, Vasilevski, Drouin and Deangelo. That's a 1oa 2oa and 3oa an 2 mid rounders.
3 servicable nhlers in connoly namestnikov and howden
5 complete bust

5/13=38% and they had 2 litteraly can't miss players at 1 and 2

How do you get 5/13? They traded 3 first and drafted 30th overall 2 different times? Their picks before'17 can't be counted yet. I only have 4 busts in those years. Rogers, Helenius, Mihaluk, Howden. DeAngelo is a decent defenseman.

 

[euhchepas]

How do you get 5/13? They traded 3 first and drafted 30th overall 2 different times? Their picks before'17 can't be counted yet. I only have 4 busts in those years. Rogers, Helenius, Mihaluk, Howden. DeAngelo is a decent defenseman.

Slater Koekkoek 10th overall barely a no 7 defenseman

 

[Whitesnake]

Hey Trevor....Sokolov instead of Rucheinski....that would have been nice....

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Getting harder to defend Timmins. I thought he was the best is the business for a short time. I don't think you could defend that argument now. I think the scouting department needs to be revamped. I think the GM needs to go first and then let the knew GM hire his crew. I'd consider Timmins as a candidate for the GM spot and I think he's a better option than Mark Hunter, but ultimately I'd be fine with moving on from him entirely if that's the direction the new GM decides to take. There was a time when I thought letting him go would be a huge mistake, I don't think so anymore.

 

[Andrei79]

Timmins has not been hands on in scouting for years. Eric Crawford is Pro scouting and Shane Churla is Amateur Scouting.

He's still very much in charge of scouting.

 

[jfm133]

In the last three years Timmins had a lot of picks to work with and the results up to now look very promising. Timmins has never been judged by Gainey, Gauthier, Bergevin and Molson on the actual picks the team made, but by the quality of his draft lists since he is in charge. That's the way to judge the quality of the work made by a head scout. You can have a very good draft list and ending up picking one of the few mistakes in it just because of bad timing. Also, in the last few years they made changes like having their own combine in Europe. Timmins is still in place for a good reason. He made it through three GM and two owners.

 

[groovejuice]

He's still very much in charge of scouting.

This is news to me. I assumed that he works with the scouting teams in the more general sense of delegation in addition to other duties. I figured that he and Bergevin decided on the final list.

 

[ZUKI]

Until the Habs address the inept amateur scouting staff and their true commitment to properly developing their picks this will continue.
Some teams draft and develop well year after year...Tampa and Boston come to mind the quickest.
Still surprised Timmins and his staff still have a job.

Lernout over Point
Vail over Josh Anderson
Maxwell right before Lucic

So many examples

You can do the same kind of analyze with all the teams , all the years and you will get the same result . Kids are young and the scouts are projecting (guessing) how they could turn 3-5 years later . Just look at the stats about the % of a 1rst-2nd-3rd-4th rounder that will play regular in the NHL ... it's such a low percentage

 

[Frank JT]

I've never had the problem with Timmins that most people have as I believe the issue has been with development.

I agree. And I would ad also that the GMs has given him orders (ex.: don't select a american, in 2009, physical players in 2013, a D in 2015, etc.). And let's not forget that he didn't have a sélection in 2008...

 

[Whitesnake]

This is news to me. I assumed that he works with the scouting teams in the more general sense of delegation in addition to other duties. I figured that he and Bergevin decided on the final list.

Timmins sit besides Bergevin at the table. Bergevin asks Timmins what he thinks we should do. Timmins asks Churla for advices. Timmins is in charge. A lot.

 

[Scintillating10]

Slater Koekkoek 10th overall barely a no 7 defenseman

So, makes 6 busts?

 

[26Mats]

A loss is a win , better odds at a top 3 pick this summer. But then I remember its Timmins and Bergy doing the drafting, and I get depressed again.

Timmins has a good record with lottery picks (only bust was 26 goal, 50 point Kostitsyn):

2003 - Kostitsyn
2005 - Price
2007 - McDonagh
2012 - Galchenyuk
2016 - Sergachev
2018 - Kotkaniemi
2019 - Caufield

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Timmins has a good record with lottery picks (only bust was 26 goal, 50 point Kostitsyn):

2003 - Kostitsyn
2005 - Price
2007 - McDonagh
2012 - Galchenyuk
2016 - Sergachev
2018 - Kotkaniemi
2019 - Caufield

2003 - Carter or Getzlaf or Parisé?
2005 - I wanted a skilled tall center in Kopitar and Timmins got Price. Quick was available second round
2012 - Vassilievski and Forsberg were available
2018 - Tkachuk ?

 

[Kairi Zaide]

2003 - Carter or Getzlaf or Parisé?
2005 - I wanted a skilled tall center in Kopitar and Timmins got Price. Quick was available second round
2012 - Vassilievski and Forsberg were available
2018 - Tkachuk ?

It's always easy to speak retroactively. Drafting is mostly a "controlled" lottery and the vast majority of teams, going back, could have made a better choice. And this holds true starting, for the most time, at pick #2-3.

 

[26Mats]

2003 - Carter or Getzlaf or Parisé?
2005 - I wanted a skilled tall center in Kopitar and Timmins got Price. Quick was available second round
2012 - Vassilievski and Forsberg were available
2018 - Tkachuk ?

Yes 2003 was only bust. Better to at least get a good player even if you don't get the best player. Note that in 2012 the teams around us took Yakupov, Ryan Murray, and Griffin Reinhart. Be thankful we didn't have those scouts.

 

[bsl]

Yes 2003 was only bust. Better to at least get a good player even if you don't get the best player. Note that in 2012 the teams around us took Yakupov, Ryan Murray, and Griffin Reinhart. Be thankful we didn't have those scouts.

Please stop defending Timmins. At this point it’s absurd.

 

[26Mats]

Please stop defending Timmins. At this point it’s absurd.

Why because 19 year old Kotkaniemi and 18 year Caufield are already busts??

There's a Timmins thread you can go over there to debate him.

His record is good in the lottery. Period.