Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[Whitesnake]

Since 2008 take a look at how many of our prospects made it.
08- no one
09- no one
10- Gallagher
11- no one
12- 3rd overall who probably is out of the NHL next season
13- Lehkonen
14- no one
15- Juulsen had potential...sad story there
16- Mete
17-19 too early to assess

My point is that everyone year after year hype our so called impressive prospects only to see none of them make it.

Our prospect pool is always the best till they reach the pros.....and then we revise it. It's okay, people can only dream when you are Habs fans. I guess it's better that they live being delusional than to be realistic. That's the only thing we have left....hope, luck and prayers.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Our prospect pool is always the best till they reach the pros.....and then we revise it. It's okay, people can only dream when you are Habs fans. I guess it's better that they live being delusional than to be realistic. That's the only thing we have left....hope, luck and prayers.

We truly are living the darkest days in Habs history...

 

[Whitesnake]

Until the Habs address the inept amateur scouting staff and their true commitment to properly developing their picks this will continue.
Some teams draft and develop well year after year...Tampa and Boston come to mind the quickest.
Still surprised Timmins and his staff still have a job.

Lernout over Point
Vail over Josh Anderson
Maxwell right before Lucic

So many examples

Timmins surfs over 2007. That's it. Everytime people come up with ''how many scouts could state that in their career they have been able to find 1 No1 goalie, 2 top 2 d-men and 1 top wingers'', this is 2007 + Carey Price.

2007 is a huge anomaly. People want to think that it's the norm when it never was.

 

[Whitesnake]

We truly are living the darkest days in Habs history...

Not really. It has been our history for thet past 25 years now. I'd say having Réjean Houle as a GM is the darkest 'cause we had nothing, and everybody knew he wouldn't be the one to find something. Bergevin has found some players. But is just unable to move past that. Wants to be great everywhere, will end up being average everywhere. I think that as of now, this is what the Montreal Canadiens are. 'Cause we still have Molson in charge. Just wish for miracles. Just wish for players to play on their heads. Really....luck and prayers are our best strategy right now.

 

[jfm133]

Total opposite. These are the brightest days since 1993. A young team at the NHL level with a very good pipeline and don't listen to those telling you the pipeline is not that good. It is very good and with depth. Remember what people were saying in 2009 about the pipeline. Gainey gave away McDonagh, Subban had to play a full season in the AHL, Pacioretty would be called a bust many times and Price was still only a very promising young goalie.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Total opposite. These are the brightest days since 1993.

1. Even if that were true, it's a low bar to set.

2. I don't think it's true. Subban and Price were best in position players who could wind up in the HOF and I don't see anyone in our system with that kind of upside. Maybe Caufield IF he pans out. And while he's got great upside, he's far from blue chip.

3. We have some good players. The cupboard isn't bare. But we lack elite talent that wins cups. With the core we had a few years ago we actually had some elite players (and good support players) to build around and screwed that up. I don't think we have that level of talent going forward. Not yet anyway. A lot would have to go right.

 

[Kriss E]

Goal scoring is more valuable today than it was back in the 80s. If you can score, you're a valuable commodity. Michael Ryder was a 30 goal guy who didn't do much else. He'd be worth a lot if he's potting 50.

Ryder wasnt very valuable, and he was being dumped on regularly here, not sure hes a great example. If Caufield becomes another Ryder, our team won't improve much.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Ryder wasnt very valuable, and he was being dumped on regularly here, not sure hes a great example. If Caufield becomes another Ryder, our team won't improve much.

Par for the course, considering we haven’t genuinely improved for any sustainable amount of time since 1993.

 

[admiralcadillac]

And I'm glad you admitted that prospects that are doing well at junior level ARE surefire NHL'er players for years to come.

Only one of our posts is representative, yours is steeped in a never ending cynicism based on a completely flawed argument that past prospects' shortcomings reflect present ones. That's only true in the sense that we drafted higher because of poor drafting in the past.

 

[Whitesnake]

Only one of our posts is representative, yours is steeped in a never ending cynicism based on a completely flawed argument that past prospects' shortcomings reflect present ones. That's only true in the sense that we drafted higher because of poor drafting in the past.

My comment was directed to somebody who ALREADY named our next 3 LD as surefire NHL'ers based on their present success. Obviously, I did not say that because some didn't work, that all wouldn't work, only somebody with a clear agenda would make sure he'd understand it that way. Point was, is and will ever be that it's not because somebody looks good at junior level that we should AUTOMATICALLY pencilled them as surefire NHL'ers. It makes absolutely no sense. But again, I understand. It's better to live in a fantasy world. Things look always better that way.

So no need to improve people...we have our 3 LD's in the next 2-3 years. Jordan Harris looks good right now, he automatically will be in our lineup in the near future! Life is so much easier that way. Hey, Cam Hillis didn't make the team though, so I guess we could erase him from our pool....if stupidity works one way, it has to work the other way too.....

 

[Scriptor]

Flawed cynical arguments on here and elsewhere are always steeped in the same loose logic:

Other teams' good moves are the result of skill and hockey knowledge and are imminently sustainable.

Habs management and drafting personnel suck, are unknowledgeable and doomed to make mistakes at every turn. When something goes right, it's just luck.

Difficult to read the same thing over and over again in just a slightly modified version from time to time. Repetition and hive mindset with complete blind agreement only makes lesser minds feel intelligent, a soothing mirage at best...

 

[Whitesnake]

Flawed cynical arguments on here and elsewhere are always steeped in the same loose logic:

Other teams' good moves are the result of skill and hockey knowledge and are imminently sustainable.

Habs management and drafting personnel suck, are unknowledgeable and doomed to make mistakes at every turn. When something goes right, it's just luck.

Difficult to read the same thing over and over again in just a slightly modified version from time to time. Repetition and hive mindset with complete blind agreement only makes lesser minds feel intelligent, a soothing mirage at best...

Only thing that matters are results at the NHL level. I have no idea why Timmins and Co are able to be that great without results. And see...you talk about cynical argumentation and you have the nerve to add ''when something goes right, it's just luck''? Who says that?

What's hard to read over and over again is how this prospect pool is NOW the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be. Every year. With....not a lot of results. Especially when you know that in Montreal, you need to be better than the best. 'Cause you can't trade. You can't get UFA's. You can't get nothing. You need TOP players to come from the draft. What's also tiring is to say how great we are....withoutu comparing others. As if we are playing in a league of our own. Yes, we might have the best prospect pool we've had in a long time. 3 questions coming from this statement....how better is it? And how better compared to the others is it? And amongst that qualilty and that depth, how many have elite potential? Right people do add McShane, Fonstad, Hillis and even Houle in the quality and depth. Fine. It is that today. But do people know that it's possible that 2 or maybe even 3 of those guys aren't signed next June? Will it affect that supposed quality and depth? And if that happens, that quality and depth wouldn't have passed the signing stage? People don't see how fragile it could be? Not that long ago, we had incredible depth on net.....with Lindgren, McNiven and Primeau. Who cares about Lindgren? Yes McNiven has great ECHL stats...but do people really think he's a NHL prospect? Or are ALL of our hope goes with Primeau right now? So yes, in the end, that depth....is no depth. But geez, can we get some quality out of Primeau though...that's for sure.

Just saying...enough with the OH MY GOD IN 2/3 YEARS WE ARE GOING TO BE A CONTENDER based on what we see today. We might. But there's a lot of things to work on. And things can change fast. Josh Brook already went from top 4 NHL D to not good enough for the AHL for some people....which is obviously way too soon of an analysis to make but...we have to admit that we thought he'd be better than what he is showing...

 

[Habs]

Good lord! Are people really panicking about Caufield after two games? Really? So many Chicken Littles...

He hasn't stood out at all, history has proven we aren't very good at drafting and grooming prospects, the negativity is warranted. How could a fan not want a new director of scouting and GM at this point after all the talent we have passed over the last 7 years?

 

[BenchBrawl]

We truly are living the darkest days in Habs history...

Lol were you alive in the late 90s early 2000s? There is no comparison.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Flawed cynical arguments on here and elsewhere are always steeped in the same loose logic:

Other teams' good moves are the result of skill and hockey knowledge and are imminently sustainable.

Habs management and drafting personnel suck, are unknowledgeable and doomed to make mistakes at every turn. When something goes right, it's just luck.

Difficult to read the same thing over and over again in just a slightly modified version from time to time. Repetition and hive mindset with complete blind agreement only makes lesser minds feel intelligent, a soothing mirage at best...

My favourite post here in a long time.

 

[Schooner Guy]

He hasn't stood out at all, history has proven we aren't very good at drafting and grooming prospects, the negativity is warranted. How could a fan not want a new director of scouting and GM at this point after all the talent we have passed over the last 7 years?

Who said anything about GM and scouting director? I'm shaking my head that people are calling Caufield a bust after TWO WJC games despite his impressive pedigree. It's as foolish as the people who were suggesting a few days ago that he should be playing for the Habs when his NCAA season ends.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Lol were you alive in the late 90s early 2000s? There is no comparison.

I was.

What’s darker, sucking for a few years? Or still sucking 20 years later?

The common dominator is we don’t ever get anything positive out of sucking

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Flawed cynical arguments on here and elsewhere are always steeped in the same loose logic:

Other teams' good moves are the result of skill and hockey knowledge and are imminently sustainable.

Habs management and drafting personnel suck, are unknowledgeable and doomed to make mistakes at every turn. When something goes right, it's just luck.

Difficult to read the same thing over and over again in just a slightly modified version from time to time. Repetition and hive mindset with complete blind agreement only makes lesser minds feel intelligent, a soothing mirage at best...

You have to admit though that we’ve seen this movie before.

we aren’t building with blue chip prospects. We have a massive hole on the back end. I see zero indication of us becoming contenders anytime soon.

Do you?

 

[McGuires Corndog]

You have to admit though that we’ve seen this movie before.

we aren’t building with blue chip prospects. We have a massive hole on the back end. I see zero indication of us becoming contenders anytime soon.

Do you?

We are no closer to being a contender than we were the day MB took office, in fact we are further away as the age gap between our best prospects now and our best players now is significant and their prime/peaks are not likely to overlap resulting in a cup run.

We are literally in perpetual wasteland of being too good to consistently get meaningful draft picks and too bad to be a legitimate playoff team. We are the 06-14 Maple Leafs right now.

 

[Habsfan2992]

I believe within 2 years we're going to have a MUCH better team. With (hopefully) Caulfield AND Romanov they'll both be sheltered more Romanov I believe than caulfield. I think once Caulfield gets the jitters out like Suzuki has he'll shine even more, the difference between Caulfield and Suzuki will only be Suzuki will be a WAY better 2 way player and Caulfield...once he hears the fans and the announcer say his name over the PA it's going to be like a drug for him and he'll be told he can be a legend in Montreal and he's going strive to be that guy.
I watch Caulfield ..I think on his off wing do that cammy knee drop for the one timer and he has all the tools to be the man myth and legend.. sure I'm excited..I'm 49yrs old and the last time I've been this excited was watching kovalev..oye that long lol.
Anyways I think we're good enough to make the playoffs this year.. guys ya gotta look at us compared to Toronto..all those huge contracts and a so called best 1st line in the NHL. How many points are we behind them? How many games in hand do we have?
If we're close to the post season I'm sure Montreal will make a trade to get over the hump to push us in plus think of free players of drouin and byron to be added.
We're good we're really good guys. Kudos to Bergevin keeping our youth and not bending to the fans needs for a right now bandaid

 

[Whitesnake]

You have to admit though that we’ve seen this movie before.

we aren’t building with blue chip prospects. We have a massive hole on the back end. I see zero indication of us becoming contenders anytime soon.

Do you?

For some reasons, this management deserves our benefit of the doubt. Why? No idea. Only reason has nothing to do with the management itself. But our desire to HAVE to believe in something. And it's great to belive in the future....till the future becomes present...then we could believe in the next future...etc.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I believe within 2 years we're going to have a MUCH better team. With (hopefully) Caulfield AND Romanov they'll both be sheltered more Romanov I believe than caulfield. I think once Caulfield gets the jitters out like Suzuki has he'll shine even more, the difference between Caulfield and Suzuki will only be Suzuki will be a WAY better 2 way player and Caulfield...once he hears the fans and the announcer say his name over the PA it's going to be like a drug for him and he'll be told he can be a legend in Montreal and he's going strive to be that guy.
I watch Caulfield ..I think on his off wing do that cammy knee drop for the one timer and he has all the tools to be the man myth and legend.. sure I'm excited..I'm 49yrs old and the last time I've been this excited was watching kovalev..oye that long lol.
Anyways I think we're good enough to make the playoffs this year.. guys ya gotta look at us compared to Toronto..all those huge contracts and a so called best 1st line in the NHL. How many points are we behind them? How many games in hand do we have?
If we're close to the post season I'm sure Montreal will make a trade to get over the hump to push us in plus think of free players of drouin and byron to be added.
We're good we're really good guys. Kudos to Bergevin keeping our youth and not bending to the fans needs for a right now bandaid

Without some major moves our D is going to suck hugely. You can’t win games with a D that bad. Not unless you’ve got crazy generational talent in your lineup elsewhere.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

For some reasons, this management deserves our benefit of the doubt. Why? No idea. Only reason has nothing to do with the management itself. But our desire to HAVE to believe in something. And it's great to belive in the future....till the future becomes present...then we could believe in the next future...etc.

Caufield looks exciting. Primeau looks good. Suzuki, KK.... there’s something to build on. But people are ignoring the D.

Freaking Price is struggling behind a bad group. We’re going to have Primeau develop behind one? Makes no sense at all.

Without a D this team is going nowhere.

 

[Frozenice]

We are no closer to being a contender than we were the day MB took office, in fact we are further away as the age gap between our best prospects now and our best players now is significant and their prime/peaks are not likely to overlap resulting in a cup run.

We are literally in perpetual wasteland of being too good to consistently get meaningful draft picks and too bad to be a legitimate playoff team. We are the 06-14 Maple Leafs right now.

I disagree that we are no better off then we were 8 years ago. We were an old, tired team with a few good players and virtually nothing in the pipeline. Our payroll was spent on overpriced vets like Gomez, Spacek, Moen and Prust.

Today’s NHL is designed for all teams to be in perpetual wasteland. In a century, with the current amount of teams in the NHL, 5 dominant years winning 2 Cups and winning 1 more Cup in the remaining 95 years in the new par for the course.

 

[Whitesnake]

Caufield looks exciting. Primeau looks good. Suzuki, KK.... there’s something to build on. But people are ignoring the D.

Freaking Price is struggling behind a bad group. We’re going to have Primeau develop behind one? Makes no sense at all.

Without a D this team is going nowhere.

Hey I was just told that the LD is already settled. Romanov-Norlinder-Harris. That's done. Don't even think of wondering if it could...it will! lol